Around the NHL: Part XXIV

  • Xenforo Cloud will be upgrading us to version 2.3.5 on March 3rd at 12 AM GMT. This version has increased stability and fixes several bugs. We expect downtime for the duration of the update. The admin team will continue to work on existing issues, templates and upgrade all necessary available addons to minimize impact of this new version. Click Here for Updates
Status
Not open for further replies.
I think, in the case of picks like McIlrath and Lias, is that everyone hated the picks right away and turned out to be right. Really casts some doubt on the scouting staff. The Kravtsov pick, while unexpected, wasn't met with the same response.

That’s fine. And this board was also off about other players over the years. There are people on this board that don’t nearly have the won-loss record to be questioning anything as an authority figure.

But seriously, at some point, some people on here are just miserable. Seriously. Like every other comment level of miserable.
 
That’s fine. And this board was also off about other players over the years. There are people on this board that don’t nearly have the won-loss record to be questioning anything as an authority figure.

But seriously, at some point, some people on here are just miserable. Seriously. Like every other comment level of miserable.
That's being generous too
 
  • Like
Reactions: Edge
The problem with luck is that it is completely dependent on the chance happening of simply being in the right place at the right time. Changing one element changes the whole thing - which why it’s impossible to rely upon it as a strategy.

But my point really wasn’t to debate the merits of luck, so much as to question where we draw that line. Okay, we’d like Suzuki over Andersson. But would we like Schroeder over Kreider right now? Would we like Lundestrom over Miller? Or Samuelsson over Lundkvist? Or Joseph over Chytil?

We spend so much time agonizing over hindsight on these boards, that we almost never stop to realize that our cupboard of talent under the age of 25, especially after drafting Lafreniere, is the envy of 90 percent of the league.

I mean at some point, short of absolute f***ing perfection, is it ever enough for some people? Do we always have to self flagellate on a daily basis?

sure... but the other side of it is that Mike York was our last Calder trophy finalist...

Mike York.
 
I just threw up at the thought of this.

And you quickly realize that even a pitcher who wins 20 games might take the loss in another 10 of them. But we celebrate the 20 wins because they’re wins and there’s a heck of a lot more of them than loses.

I mean at some point, there are going to be missed here. And there are going to be times, as there always has been, when this board doesn’t pick the best player. So at some point, it becomes a little crazy to focus on every single miss or come with these wild assumptions that people should be fired or that they suck at what they do.

It’s just not factual.
 
sure... but the other side of it is that Mike York was our last Calder trophy finalist...

Mike York.

The majority of those winners were top picks. I don’t care if they win the Calder. I want to know they’re going to be become Lundqvist, or McD, or Kreider, or Stepan, or Staal before his injury, or Buchnevich, or whoever.

I’m not going to look back and lament that those guys didn’t win best rookie. I want to find the guy whose going to have the best career.

Nobody cares Tyler Myers was once the best rookie, I wouldn’t trade a Kreider or a Chytil for him.
 
And you quickly realize that even a pitcher who wins 20 games might take the loss in another 10 of them. But we celebrate the 20 wins because they’re wins and there’s a heck of a lot more of them than loses.

I mean at some point, there are going to be missed here. And there are going to be times, as there always has been, when this board doesn’t pick the best player. So at some point, it becomes a little crazy to focus on every single miss or come with these wild assumptions that people should be fired or that they suck at what they do.

It’s just not factual.

Yeah and even if people f*** up, sometimes it works out better in the long run.

I learned my lesson in 2019, I was fuming when Buch scored late to tie and get a loser point against CBJ and was even angrier when they won their season finale in OT. Was convinced that they completely f***ed up their chances at getting an impact player in the draft and were headed for perpetual dreaded middleism.

In theory, they would have been better off with out those points, but had they come away with 0, they don't move up to #2 in the lottery.

If they don't move up and take Kakko, maybe they finish even worse than they did this year (or better, if they had a vet in his role.) Either way, they almost for sure do not walk away with #1 this year. Same if Lias ended up panning out to some extent.

2-3 years from now when Lafrienere is lighting up the Leafs during the playoffs, no one here will even think of Lias or care what Suzuki or Farabee are doing.
 
  • Like
Reactions: UnSandvich and jas
The problem with luck is that it is completely dependent on the chance happening of simply being in the right place at the right time. Changing one element changes the whole thing - which why it’s impossible to rely upon it as a strategy.

But my point really wasn’t to debate the merits of luck, so much as to question where we draw that line. Okay, we’d like Suzuki over Andersson. But would we like Schroeder over Kreider right now? Would we like Lundestrom over Miller? Or Samuelsson over Lundkvist? Or Joseph over Chytil?

We spend so much time agonizing over hindsight on these boards, that we almost never stop to realize that our cupboard of talent under the age of 25, especially after drafting Lafreniere, is the envy of 90 percent of the league.

I mean at some point, short of absolute f***ing perfection, is it ever enough for some people? Do we always have to self flagellate on a daily basis?

i’m just saying Suzuki. I don’t think the Rangers are any better. I see them picking in the same slot with the same odds. This kid wasn’t going to change too much, if anything. Maybe a win over Carolina and the Rangers lose the series 3-1.

Bottom line IMO this year, Covid helped us.
 
Last edited:
should have been Fox. And Hank before him. But yeah, this team has a bad history with young players/rookies. Makes me worried for Laf tbh.

How many players on Laf or Kakko’s level have the Rangers had in the last 20 years?

How many elite, top end, slam dunk forwards between the ages of 18-21 have we messed up?

Our last group of guys, who took the Rangers to the cup finals, and the conference finals, were filled with how many home grown young players? And how many of those guys were selected in the top 3 by the team? In the top 5? Hell, in the top 10?

We’re holding ourselves to the standards of teams that had those kinds of picks. And that’s rarely going to look well for anyone in that position.
 
The majority of those winners were top picks. I don’t care if they win the Calder. I want to know they’re going to be become Lundqvist, or McD, or Kreider, or Stepan, or Staal before his injury, or Buchnevich, or whoever.

I’m not going to look back and lament that those guys didn’t win best rookie. I want to find the guy whose going to have the best career.

Nobody cares Tyler Myers was once the best rookie, I wouldn’t trade a Kreider or a Chytil for him.

I'm referring more to the fact that cap era winning teams need ELC players that contribute. While we all want these players to be gamers and have fantastic careers... it would really help to have some of our picks step in and be contributers during their ELCs like we are seeing around the league.
 
Yeah and even if people f*** up, sometimes it works out better in the long run.

I learned my lesson in 2019, I was fuming when Buch scored late to tie and get a loser point against CBJ and was even angrier when they won their season finale in OT. Was convinced that they completely f***ed up their chances at getting an impact player in the draft and were headed for perpetual dreaded middleism.

In theory, they would have been better off with out those points, but had they come away with 0, they don't move up to #2 in the lottery.

If they don't move up and take Kakko, maybe they finish even worse than they did this year (or better, if they had a vet in his role.) Either way, they almost for sure do not walk away with #1 this year. Same if Lias ended up panning out to some extent.

2-3 years from now when Lafrienere is lighting up the Leafs during the playoffs, no one here will even think of Lias or care what Suzuki or Farabee are doing.

The fact that we were able to pay Bettman to rig the lottery for us 2 years in a row shouldn't take away from the fact that our drafting and development has been suspect for a long long time now.
 
The fact that we were able to pay Bettman to rig the lottery for us 2 years in a row shouldn't take away from the fact that our drafting and development has been suspect for a long long time now.

Has it really though?

We had no 1st round picks over 4 drafts and we didn't pick until the 3rd in most of them. The probability of 3rd rounders panning out is very low and the later you go, the smaller those chances get.
 
I'm referring more to the fact that cap era winning teams need ELC players that contribute. While we all want these players to be gamers and have fantastic careers... it would really help to have some of our picks step in and be contributers during their ELCs like we are seeing around the league.

And you’ve got Fox and Shesterkin doing it. We’ve potentially got Kakko ready to do it. We’ve got Lafreniere ready to do it. We’ve gotten it from McD, Skjei, Buchnevich, Kreider, Miller, Staal, Sauer, Del Zotto, Stepan, Dubinsky, Callahan,and others over the years.

And those contributions are why we remained contenders for the majority of 12 years between 2005 and 2017. We’re not devoid of talent that we’ve found in our draft positions.

You’d almost think we squandered a decade of top 10 picks on here. We were picking 15, 17, 19, 28, etc.

Since the lockout we lost one top prospect to death. We lost another promising RD to injury before he could rent a car on his own. And we went 4 years without a first round pick. That’s all in a period of time between 2008 and 2016 - 8 years.
 
  • Like
Reactions: JCProdigy and LGR92
The fact that we were able to pay Bettman to rig the lottery for us 2 years in a row shouldn't take away from the fact that our drafting and development has been suspect for a long long time now.

You’re entitled to your opinion. But we can really delve deeper if you want.

You wanna go draft by draft and review our picks vs. the other options that were on the board?

Do we wanna look at our successes and failures, or just the latter? How should weigh the 2013 draft where we didn’t pick until the third round?

Do we count the ability to identify talent we weren’t able to draft and then acquire them at a later date? Does it count if they flourished with us? Does it count if we traded them and they flourished elsewhere?

What threshold and parameters do we want to establish?
 
  • Like
Reactions: LGR92
You’re entitled to your opinion. But we can really delve deeper if you want.

You wanna go draft by draft and review our picks vs. the other options that were on the board?

Do we wanna look at our successes and failures, or just the latter? How should weigh the 2013 draft where we didn’t pick until the third round?

Do we count the ability to identify talent we weren’t able to draft and then acquire them at a later date? Does it count if they flourished with us? Does it count if we traded them and they flourished elsewhere?

What threshold and parameters do we want to establish?
This isn't the thread for this, but just look at our team now, our best players this season: Panarin, Zibanejad, DeAngelo, Fox, Strome... none were drafted by us. We're lucky we can sign FAs and make good trades because if we relied solely on drafting like Vancouver or Winnipeg our rebuild would be in big trouble. And its not just drafting, I think something really stinks with our player development.
 
  • Like
Reactions: gabevh3
This isn't the thread for this, but just look at our team now, our best players this season: Panarin, Zibanejad, DeAngelo, Fox, Strome... none were drafted by us. We're lucky we can sign FAs and make good trades because if we relied solely on drafting like Vancouver or Winnipeg our rebuild would be in big trouble. And its not just drafting, I think something really stinks with our player development.

Where did those guys grow their game?

Wasn't with their previous organizations. Panarin was already a star before he came here, but if you're going to crap on player development, you can't ignore it when almost your entire list has shown it in spades while under the eye of this organization.

We can throw Lindgren in there as well.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Thirty One
You’d almost think we squandered a decade of top 10 picks on here. We were picking 15, 17, 19, 28, etc.

well, from 1998 to 2004 they squandered
Malhotra at #7
Brendlnat #4
Lundmark at #9
Blackburn at #10
Jessiman at #12
Montoya at #6

so the team does have a history of early misses. Lias isn’t looking too promising either. We’re hoping Kraskov makes an impact
 
well, from 1998 to 2004 they squandered
Malhotra at #7
Brendlnat #4
Lundmark at #9
Blackburn at #10
Jessiman at #12
Montoya at #6

so the team does have a history of early misses. Lias isn’t looking too promising either. We’re hoping Kraskov makes an impact

Laf was.

-3 yo when Malhotra was drafted
-2 yo when Brendl and Lundmark were drafted
-3.5 months when Blackburn was taken (He also had his career cut short to injury)
1.5 yo when Jessiman was taken
2.5 yo when Montoya was drafted (and he had a more significant career than most of the guys in the top 20, so maybe they didn't f*** this up all that bad?)

Point being, these picks were made a long time ago.
 
This isn't the thread for this, but just look at our team now, our best players this season: Panarin, Zibanejad, DeAngelo, Fox, Strome... none were drafted by us. We're lucky we can sign FAs and make good trades because if we relied solely on drafting like Vancouver or Winnipeg our rebuild would be in big trouble.

How in the heck were we supposed to draft some of those guys? Zibanejad went 6th overall in 2011. We didn’t pick until 15th. We took JT Miller. He turned out alright. Five years later, we made the trade of the decade. We got Zibanejad as a 23 year old. He became a star and the best center we’ve had this century.

ADA was a first round pick in 2014. We didn’t have a first round pick in that draft. We got him in a trade for a center who was slowing down. The same trade that got us the pick used on Andersson. ADA just had the best offensive season by a Rangers defenseman in a generation. He too became a star with us.

So far, the first two examples were young players we identified, never had a chance to draft, who became stars AFTER they joined us.

Fox was drafted with the 66th pick in a draft where we didn’t have ANY picks until 81. Again, how could we draft him? We moved two second round picks to acquire him before he ever played a pro game. He looks like a star player.

So that’s three guys, who became stars with us, who we had no chance to draft.

We’ll keep going.

Strome was another player we couldn’t draft because he went one pick before Zibanejad. So it’s the same thing. We acquired him at 25, since then he’s played his best hockey for us.

With the exception of Panarin, who every team in the league passed on for nearly half a decade, there was no way to select any of those guys in the draft.

And the same guys who identify that young talent before they play in the pros, and whose notes were referenced when looking at players, are the same exact guys were lambasting for sucking at their job. The exact same guys.

But let’s be realistic for a second. If we acquired this young talent, and they sucked, we’d be holding their feet to the flames. But if it works out, it’s only because we already knew it was going to work out and it was an easy layup.

That’s what I find frustrating. We’ve created this whole narrative in our heads that never stands up to intense scrutiny whenever it’s really challenged. We’ve had people on here who have practically written term papers analyzing the Rangers performance the last 15 years and the results are highly favorable. Not perfect, but certainly nowhere near the wasteland that some have described it to be.

And that was before the last two years.

We honestly have the deepest talent pool we’ve had in 30 years.

Now, if we f*** this up, then by all means we can rack this organization over the coals. Because if we blow this, then indeed something is beyond broken. But the true measure of whether this front office and staff can develop stars and build a stacked team has only really started in earnest recently.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Ad

Ad