Around the League | No lead is safe in Round 2!

[LemonSauceD]

If Chicago wins another draft lottery I’m going to be super f***ing pissed

 

[Just A Bit Outside]

I change my comment. I think Utah wins the draft lottery.

 

[I am toxic]

I'll always argue that Travis Green is a better NHL coach that Desjardins. The difference is Desjardins is a far superior junior and AHL coach. Green fundamentally understands advanced tactics such as line-matching. He just has no idea how to properly implement any sort of system, teach them, or how to use them. He does know what they are, though.

Line matching without a system is kinda pointless, as Green demonstrated conclusively

 

[StreetHawk]

In fairness to Green, he was given the rosters Benning assembled to work with. You can't make chicken salad out of chicken shit.

That said - he showed a real inability to coach any sort of cohesive system. When the Canucks won, it was usually because the talented guys put a few pucks in and then we just turtled and hung on for dear life for the rest of the game. And I didn't really see a seismic shift in his style in his stint in New Jersey. He reminds me a fair bit of Tom Renney when he coached Vancouver the first time out of junior but with different flaws. Renney was very into systems and structure, but struggled to communicate with pro players. Green seems to communicate with pro players great, but struggles mightily with systems and structure.

Renney eventually got his second chance and learned from his mistakes. I just don't know that I've seen that growth in Green. He seemed like a nice guy, and I bear him no ill will. But I don't think he's the right person to lead Ottawa going forward.

Ottawa is in real need of success asap. DCat and JC moves were push forward now and it blew up on them. Costing them 2 first and 2 2nds and at least a 3rd. Got back a drafted former 3rd and about 20 slots and 2 years later first back for the one they gave CHI.

Their long term RFA signings are already moving along into their deals. Chabot is 4 years in, Tkachuck is 3 years into their 8 year contracts. So, factor in that a decision would be needed before their final year, they have 3 and 4 years left to make some traction. Norris, Stutzle, Sanderson are 2, 1, 0 years into theirs.

There isn't a grow with the team right now for Ott. They need success this upcoming season. I just don't know if he's the right guy for that vs someone like Berube or someone with a track record of success in the NHL, that I think they should have been hard after. I mean the other available options are in NJ, SJ, likely LA. Think NJ is the best option for success as they have Hughes, though like Ott, their goaltending isn't ideal.

 

[Bourne Endeavor]

Poking around the Leafs board because I'm super curious what they actually end up doing this off season. Apparently, Berube was the initial choice from Ottawa, according to Friedman. He turned them down for a better opportunity and more money. Have to admit, that does make me think he's holding off for the Leafs gig.

 

[Bubbles]

The media here, literally all of them, love Travis Green because he treated them well. I was listening to Canucks Army yesterday and both Quads and Harman admitted they can't evaluate him fairly because of their bias towards him.

That's the big problem. He's a card carrying member of the OBC. Media likes him, and the movers and shakers in the NHL like him.

He also coached the worst performing Spengler cup team ever. That's a hell of an accomplishment.

 

[krutovsdonut]

Renney eventually got his second chance and learned from his mistakes. I just don't know that I've seen that growth in Green. He seemed like a nice guy, and I bear him no ill will. But I don't think he's the right person to lead Ottawa going forward.

"no growth" kind of summarizes green's limitations for me.

 

[SopelFanThe3rd]

Oh wow, Stars vs Avs today?

That's some unforgiving schedule.

Worked in the Bruins favour yesterday

 

[StreetHawk]

Poking around the Leafs board because I'm super curious what they actually end up doing this off season. Apparently, Berube was the initial choice from Ottawa, according to Friedman. He turned them down for a better opportunity and more money. Have to admit, that does make me think he's holding off for the Leafs gig.

Given remaining openings I’d put. j at the top. But if Toronto does open up, not sure if that’s better between the 2. Harris who owns NJ is a billionaire who bought the commanders. NJ pay structure isn’t out of whack but both have goalie questions.

If you spend a billion on a team should be prepared to pay $5 mill plus for a high end HC if needed.

 

[vancityluongo]

I change my comment. I think Utah wins the draft lottery.

it would be comedically typical nhl for bill daly to hold an nhl logo in gold as the draft lottery winner, after their darling franchise in phoenix never had the lottery in their favour (which played a big part in never generating enough interest to stay in that market)

 

[StreetHawk]

it would be comedically typical nhl for bill daly to hold an nhl logo in gold as the draft lottery winner, after their darling franchise in phoenix never had the lottery in their favour (which played a big part in never generating enough interest to stay in that market)

Interesting that on the main board someone pointed a X screen shot of John Burigoss showing SJ with top pick and Utah at #2.

It's 1:30 pm but the "official drawing" isn't set to take place til 2:45pm our time and results aired at 3:30 pm.

 

[Mr. Canucklehead]

If Chicago wins another draft lottery I’m going to be super f***ing pissed

Chicago sucks too hard even with Bedard. Wouldn't shock me at all to see "luck" just happen to go their way.

Utah would be the other "league pick" I could see.

If San Jose wins, it's a just world. But I'm preparing myself for Chicago again.

 

[StreetHawk]

Chicago sucks too hard even with Bedard. Wouldn't shock me at all to see "luck" just happen to go their way.

Utah would be the other "league pick" I could see.

If San Jose wins, it's a just world. But I'm preparing myself for Chicago again.

Chicago is at the beginning of their rebuild. When they extend Foligno and Dickinson for mid $4's for 2 more seasons, not expecting much during Bedard's ELC years. Personally, I hope for teams that either have nothing or didn't "tank" their season. Outside of chi and probably Ana next (this is their 3rd bottom 3 finish in 4 seasons and 4th bottom 5 finish in 5 seasons), I'm kind of meh as to anyone else winning it.

 

[arttk]

If Chicago wins another draft lottery I’m going to be super f***ing pissed

i thought there are rules about not allowing a team to win consecutive lotteries

 

[LemonSauceD]

i thought there are rules about not allowing a team to win consecutive lotteries

Isn’t it 2 times in 5 years?

 

[Vector]

Isn’t it 2 times in 5 years?

This is correct. Cannot win the lottery more than 2 times in a 5 year span.

 

[StreetHawk]

This is correct. Cannot win the lottery more than 2 times in a 5 year span.

I believe if you are one of the 2 teams whose numbers are chosen, it constitutes a lottery win correct?

 

[Vector]

I believe if you are one of the 2 teams whose numbers are chosen, it constitutes a lottery win correct?

This is also correct. There are two draws, first 1st and 2nd overall. Winning either of those count as winning the lottery.

At least, that's how I read the rules.

 

[StreetHawk]

This is also correct. There are two draws, first 1st and 2nd overall. Winning either of those count as winning the lottery.

At least, that's how I read the rules.

So, 2023 was Chi and Anaheim with top 2.
2022 was Mon and NJ with the top 2.

Anyone of these 4 win and they are all still eligible to, they are out of the running for a while.

Wording is:
Teams are only allowed to improve their draft positioning through the lottery twice in a five-year period beginning with the 2022 lottery.

So, if you maintain your spot or new spot after the first drawing, that's still counts I guess.

 

[racerjoe]

I'll always argue that Travis Green is a better NHL coach that Desjardins. The difference is Desjardins is a far superior junior and AHL coach. Green fundamentally understands advanced tactics such as line-matching. He just has no idea how to properly implement any sort of system, teach them, or how to use them. He does know what they are, though.

Can I just say how funny it is we are talking about "advanced tactics" like line matching for NHL coaches...

 

[credulous]

No coach. No exciting prospects ready to make the jump. Floundering GM*. Even if they get Celebrini, they probably should leave him in the NCAA for another year just to keep him away. Although that would probably further kill the franchise.

*I think Grier hasn't done a good job but there's hyperbole with how bad he has actually been

grier is really underrated

if you look at where that team was when he took over and where they are now it's night and day

the only bad contracts left on their cap are vlasic and couture but both expire relatively soon and both will likely be ltiretired before their salaries matter. he turned hertl, meier, karlsson and burns into zetterlund, musty, mukhamadullin, edstrom and a first and second in the upcoming draft and another first in 2025. he moved out enough money that he'll have like 30m in cap space both of the next two offseasons

i like what he did in 2022 also where he got 3 good prospects out of his #11 pick. that draft was a crapshoot and bystedt and havelid are tracking to be two of the best players taken. lund is decent too

i think they'll be decent sooner than people think. will smith is absolutely an impact player in the making and smith, bystedt, eklund, graf, zetterlund, mukhamadullin, musty and thrun is a good group of young players to build around. as long as they don't load up on bad contracts immediately i think they're in great shape

 

[mossey3535]

In fairness to Green, he was given the rosters Benning assembled to work with. You can't make chicken salad out of chicken shit.

That said - he showed a real inability to coach any sort of cohesive system. When the Canucks won, it was usually because the talented guys put a few pucks in and then we just turtled and hung on for dear life for the rest of the game. And I didn't really see a seismic shift in his style in his stint in New Jersey. He reminds me a fair bit of Tom Renney when he coached Vancouver the first time out of junior but with different flaws. Renney was very into systems and structure, but struggled to communicate with pro players. Green seems to communicate with pro players great, but struggles mightily with systems and structure.

Renney eventually got his second chance and learned from his mistakes. I just don't know that I've seen that growth in Green. He seemed like a nice guy, and I bear him no ill will. But I don't think he's the right person to lead Ottawa going forward.

Sure, I was somewhat willing to give him benefit of the doubt in the beginning but it became pretty obvious very quickly he wasn't a structured coach. Teams would literally do the same move and farm us the entire game (e.g. stretch pass off the center ice boards to speedy wingers) and he wouldn't do a thing to counter it.

He also had top notch goaltending for a lot of this period.

Boudreau came in and besides the coaching bump they were instantly a lot better. He couldn't sustain that because he had no defensive foundation but that's a direct comparison with the same roster construction. Same for the first part of Tocchet's tenure. They didn't have Soucy and others at that time and they also instantly looked better than under Boudreau.

NJ is a super talented team, not sure why his results there can be dismissed when you're hiring him to coach another similar team.

 

[mossey3535]

The media here, literally all of them, love Travis Green because he treated them well. I was listening to Canucks Army yesterday and both Quads and Harman admitted they can't evaluate him fairly because of their bias towards him.

Also one thing I will give Green tons of credit for is how he stood in front of the media answering hard questions while Wormtongue and Benning hid somewhere. Cowards.

Doesn't make him an actually good coach though.

 

[arttk]

Isn’t it 2 times in 5 years?

This is correct. Cannot win the lottery more than 2 times in a 5 year span.

f***ing hell

 

[Vector]

grier is really underrated

if you look at where that team was when he took over and where they are now it's night and day

the only bad contracts left on their cap are vlasic and couture but both expire relatively soon and both will likely be ltiretired before their salaries matter. he turned hertl, meier, karlsson and burns into zetterlund, musty, mukhamadullin, edstrom and a first and second in the upcoming draft and another first in 2025. he moved out enough money that he'll have like 30m in cap space both of the next two offseasons

i like what he did in 2022 also where he got 3 good prospects out of his #11 pick. that draft was a crapshoot and bystedt and havelid are tracking to be two of the best players taken. lund is decent too

i think they'll be decent sooner than people think. will smith is absolutely an impact player in the making and smith, bystedt, eklund, graf, zetterlund, mukhamadullin, musty and thrun is a good group of young players to build around. as long as they don't load up on bad contracts immediately i think they're in great shape

I'm not as bullish as you are and think the Karlsson return was pretty poor for how many contracts that took back but he's been put in a really bad spot and is navigating it better than most are giving credit.