Around the League | And then there were four.

[M2Beezy]

OK Im visiting Toronto right now and Wednesday was in downtown and saw all their fans getting all excited for game 5, and I kinda felt for them. Passionate fan base totally crazy, a ton of fans obviously way more then in Miami lol

They werent jerky about it, they were pretty humble, esp with all the playoff losing. I dunno kinda started rooting for them to win. That loss was such a humiliating kick in the teeth, I can relate lol

Loudmouth Canadian sports media is so nasty and disgusting for their Leafs but those fans there in Toronto aint the same, was kinda hoping for the leafs for those regular fans..

 

[valkynax]

OK Im visiting Toronto right now and Wednesday was in downtown and saw all their fans getting all excited for game 5, and I kinda felt for them. Passionate fan base totally crazy, a ton of fans obviously way more then in Miami lol

They werent jerky about it, they were pretty humble, esp with all the playoff losing. I dunno kinda started rooting for them to win. That loss was such a humiliating kick in the teeth, I can relate lol

Loudmouth Canadian sports media is so nasty and disgusting for their Leafs but those fans there in Toronto aint the same, was kinda hoping for the leafs for those regular fans..

Was in Toronto a few years back, visited HHOF and spoke briefly with some fans there. Like you said, not all TOR fans are like Dangle lol.

And yeah, thanks to that f***ing jackass Cifu, I am now quietly rooting for TOR to win the series.

 

[HairyKneel]

Him and Hrudey.

Button on the suit jacket gonna pop off and take someone’s eye out one day soon.

If Kypreos and Hrudey are bloated, what happened to Sekeres? The guy can barely open his eyes anymore with all the extra rolls and skin on his melon. From the shoulders up he must weigh an easy hundred. Donate one of those chins to Gord Miller. The guy ate a bowl of Basketball soup. Mix in a salad or an apple.

 

[HairyKneel]

NM

 

[andora]

Was in Toronto a few years back, visited HHOF and spoke briefly with some fans there. Like you said, not all TOR fans are like Dangle lol.

And yeah, thanks to that f***ing jackass Cifu, I am now quietly rooting for TOR to win the series.

Cause you guys are meeting the ones that actually go outside

 

[F A N]

It probably is the case, but they could have used another big tweener this year. Especially at RW.

They paid for a big tweener in a O'Connor because he was also fast and offered about 25 seconds more AVG SHTOI/G. They don't have the big forward depth to be so arbitrary in what they keep and what they toss away -- And I'm not even a big Podkolzin fan...

I've been strongly against the trade from the start, especially since we didn't end up using that 4th round pick to acquire a useful player. The chances of drafting a player of Pods quality is low.

Podkolzin's speed, physicality, defensive play, and skill level is why Edmonton uses him up the lineup a times. He would have been a good fit under Tocchet. He's also at an age where his ability to sustain his physical play is at its peak. I think a lot of posters here are too dismissive of Pods as a player. Sure his offensive production was/is underwhelming but he is on a 2x$1M AAV contract - he's a useful player. Like ya Sherwood is a better player and a great signing but he's now 30 and has one more year left on his contract. Drew O'Connor we signed to a $2.5M AAV contract and one reason we gave him that contract was because he was a pending UFA.

In trade scenarios people point out that we have few assets to trade. That's because we don't have many established NHL players on cheap/expiring contracts. Look at Beauvillier. Washington gave a 2nd for him. You don't think Pods can fetch a 2nd round pick next trade deadline? There's utility in young cost-controlled NHL players with upside even if the upside is never reached.

 

[Mr. Canucklehead]

Cause you guys are meeting the ones that actually go outside

This is true of pretty much all hockey fans for me. I’ve seldom met a hockey fan of another team *in person* that has been anything but excited to have another passionate hockey fan to talk to and swap opinions on their teams. Only one exception in my whole life to that rule.

Online is a different matter. The internet is dark and full of terrors.

 

[I am toxic]

This is true of pretty much all hockey fans for me. I’ve seldom met a hockey fan of another team *in person* that has been anything but excited to have another passionate hockey fan to talk to and swap opinions on their teams. Only one exception in my whole life to that rule.

Online is a different matter. The internet is dark and full of terrors.

 

[LemonSauceD]

Why didn’t police lay charges in 2019? Inside the London police investigations in the Hockey Canada sex assault case

London police documents make clear the high-profile sex assault investigation was reopened in 2022 due to “a resurgence in media attention” — with the key evidence largely unchanged from 2019.

www.thestar.com

This has not been a simple case at all.

I’m always inclined to believe the victim. That said, there’s a lot of evidence and testimony that supports the contrary. Definitely not the way I thought the whole incident was seemingly portrayed.

 

[MS]

Why didn’t police lay charges in 2019? Inside the London police investigations in the Hockey Canada sex assault case

London police documents make clear the high-profile sex assault investigation was reopened in 2022 due to “a resurgence in media attention” — with the key evidence largely unchanged from 2019.

www.thestar.com

This has not been a simple case at all.

I’m always inclined to believe the victim. That said, there’s a lot of evidence and testimony that supports the contrary. Definitely not the way I thought the whole incident was seemingly portrayed.

As far as I can tell, this will be a not guilty verdict incoming and I'm not sure why this was ever brought to trial as there was no hope of meeting 'beyond reasonable doubt'.

 

[valkynax]

This is true of pretty much all hockey fans for me. I’ve seldom met a hockey fan of another team *in person* that has been anything but excited to have another passionate hockey fan to talk to and swap opinions on their teams. Only one exception in my whole life to that rule.

Online is a different matter. The internet is dark and full of terrors.

My tenant is an Oiler fan, so are some of my coworkers.

Side note, I mentioned this before, shortly I first came to Canada in 1998 one of my mom's friends gave me a blue t-shirt with "Toronto Maple Leafs" on it. I thought: "Oh ok Toronto is the kapital of Kanada and maple leaf is the symbol of the country sure I shall wear it proudly. Hmm why is the shirt blue though..."

 

[Egghead1999]

As far as I can tell, this will be a not guilty verdict incoming and I'm not sure why this was ever brought to trial as there was no hope of meeting 'beyond reasonable doubt'.

"beyond reasonable doubt" thinking seldom use in the he said/she said cases, such as this one. In fact, I don't believe the girl is the second coming of mother teresa, but I also don't believe those boy are innocent.

 

[Nick Lang]

OK Im visiting Toronto right now and Wednesday was in downtown and saw all their fans getting all excited for game 5, and I kinda felt for them. Passionate fan base totally crazy, a ton of fans obviously way more then in Miami lol

They werent jerky about it, they were pretty humble, esp with all the playoff losing. I dunno kinda started rooting for them to win. That loss was such a humiliating kick in the teeth, I can relate lol

Loudmouth Canadian sports media is so nasty and disgusting for their Leafs but those fans there in Toronto aint the same, was kinda hoping for the leafs for those regular fans..

I've got a couple of really good friends who are Leafs fans and I've watched a couple games and tried to support them.

I just can't do it though. I hate those guys lol. The buffoonery in the past and their collective delusion is just too much.

 

[MS]

"beyond reasonable doubt" thinking seldom use in the he said/she said cases, such as this one. In fact, I don't believe the girl is the second coming of mother teresa, but I also don't believe those boy are innocent.

I expected that I'd think they were guilty and they're definitely utter douchebags (which is not a crime) but some of the stuff reflects very poorly on the accuser and her credibility.

IE. she had said that Formenton followed her into a bathroom and assaulted her but then admitted that it 'was possible' that in fact she had grabbed Formenton and pulled him into the bathroom.

Like, at this point if you asked me if it was more likely that she was sexually assaulted or just that she was someone who made decisions when she was drunk that she later regretted (and then was pressured into following up on by others around her) ... I'm well over 50% toward the latter.

 

[BOBBY9]

Lost my father 2 years ago. Terrible.

 

[I am toxic]

I expected that I'd think they were guilty and they're definitely utter douchebags (which is not a crime) but some of the stuff reflects very poorly on the accuser and her credibility.

IE. she had said that Formenton followed her into a bathroom and assaulted her but then admitted that it 'was possible' that in fact she had grabbed Formenton and pulled him into the bathroom.

Like, at this point if you asked me if it was more likely that she was sexually assaulted or just that she was someone who made decisions when she was drunk that she later regretted (and then was pressured into following up on by others around her) ... I'm well over 50% toward the latter.

unless the prosecution has evidence she was roofied, it seems to me that even the complainant herself has reasonable doubt

why the prosecution thought it was a good idea to prosecute this is beyond me

maybe Batherson's testimony will reveal something, but so far the other players have just lied on the stand. pretending they don't remember anything that might be incriminating - but even their earlier statements leave enough room for doubt at this point

in any event, Formenton's defense team has been scummy and should be disbarred

 

[Nick Lang]

You don't think Pods can fetch a 2nd round pick next trade deadline? There's utility in young cost-controlled NHL players with upside even if the upside is never reached.

0% in my opinion. That would be really braindead for any franchise. He's no better than O'Conner. He's replacement level maybe worth a fourth if you need a cheap contract and have some like for him personally. I wouldn't be surprised if he's out of the NHL by this time next year either. He may even find himself on the outside looking in for Edmonton next year as they probably have more cap space too. Not sure about their cap though.

Also don't think that Beauvillier trade was realistic. Washington paid way more than they or anyone should/would have.

 

[MS]

unless the prosecution has evidence she was roofied, it seems to me that even the complainant herself has reasonable doubt

why the prosecution thought it was a good idea to prosecute this is beyond me

For almost everything that can be checked/verified she's either doubted/questioned herself or the evidence is saying she either lied or mis-remembered. It makes it very hard to believe the things she's saying that are more difficult to verify.

And yeah, absolutely no idea why this was prosecuted. Maybe it the bigger picture it's good that there was a warning shot made in regards to scummy/borderline entitled jock behaviour and maybe it will lead to some improvements on this stuff in Canadian sport systems ... but there simply isn't a case here.

 

[LemonSauceD]

I expected that I'd think they were guilty and they're definitely utter douchebags (which is not a crime) but some of the stuff reflects very poorly on the accuser and her credibility.

IE. she had said that Formenton followed her into a bathroom and assaulted her but then admitted that it 'was possible' that in fact she had grabbed Formenton and pulled him into the bathroom.

Like, at this point if you asked me if it was more likely that she was sexually assaulted or just that she was someone who made decisions when she was drunk that she later regretted (and then was pressured into following up on by others around her) ... I'm well over 50% toward the latter.

It seems clear that the woman’s testimony is full of holes and contradictions which seriously undermines the credibility of her claims. Her shifting statements over the years and her vague and evasive answers under crossexamination make it hard to trust her version of events. If she were being honest, she’d give direct answers but instead she avoids them likely because she knows denying certain things outright would expose her to perjury. Her admission that it was “possible” she initiated a sexual encounter, after initially framing it as assault, is especially telling.

E.M quite obviously regrets a lot of things that happen that night. E.M was cheating on her boyfriend and the defense brought a fair argument that she conflated the shame and guilt of cheating on her boyfriend with assault, which is why she never wanted to take this further but that her mother who found her crying in the shower interpreted her regret, shame, and guilt as her being a victim of assault likely because of the way E.M explained it to her without the full context.

I think it’s fair to assume she was down with it earlier on but at some point the dynamics changed and she had trouble saying no (her testimony of being a people pleaser) and just went on with the swinger thing.

This is one of the rare instances I’ll probably have to side with the defense here. Don’t get me wrong, the men are douches and are disgusting for engaging in this behaviour but it does not appear to be a gang rape sort of thing but a culmination of bad decisions on everyone involved.

 

[WTG]

Will the good guys win today like they did last night?

 

[MS]

It seems clear that the woman’s testimony is full of holes and contradictions which seriously undermines the credibility of her claims. Her shifting statements over the years and her vague and evasive answers under crossexamination make it hard to trust her version of events. If she were being honest, she’d give direct answers but instead she avoids them likely because she knows denying certain things outright would expose her to perjury. Her admission that it was “possible” she initiated a sexual encounter, after initially framing it as assault, is especially telling.

E.M quite obviously regrets a lot of things that happen that night. E.M was cheating on her boyfriend and the defense brought a fair argument that she conflated the shame and guilt of cheating on her boyfriend with assault, which is why she never wanted to take this further but that her mother who found her crying in the shower interpreted her regret, shame, and guilt as her being a victim of assault likely because of the way E.M explained it to her without the full context.

I think it’s fair to assume she was down with it earlier on but at some point the dynamics changed and she had trouble saying no (her testimony of being a people pleaser) and just went on with the swinger thing.

This is one of the rare instances I’ll probably have to side with the defense here. Don’t get me wrong, the men are douches and are disgusting for engaging in this behaviour but it does not appear to be a gang rape sort of thing but a culmination of bad decisions on everyone involved.

Yeah, agreed on all counts.

One possibility is that she was fully consenting and this is all just drunken regret and the situation has been pushed legally by the people around her.

The other is that she was legitimately uncomfortable about being in a power imbalance and didn't like the situation ... but then responded by putting on a 'porn star persona' and being a 'people pleaser' (her words) and basically aggressively trying to hook up with everyone in the room. And, like, that's not sexual assault at that point. If you're telling people to 'stop being a p***y and f*** me' and then they f*** you, they haven't committed a crime.

And again, the flip-flop on what happened with Formenton is astounding.

These players are all kinda gross douchebags (as is the accuser) but this doesn't look anything like a conviction will happen and I can't really see an argument for them not returning to the NHL.

 

[LemonSauceD]

Yeah, agreed on all counts.

One possibility is that she was fully consenting and this is all just drunken regret and the situation has been pushed legally by the people around her.

The other is that she was legitimately uncomfortable about being in a power imbalance and didn't like the situation ... but then responded by putting on a 'porn star persona' and being a 'people pleaser' (her words) and basically aggressively trying to hook up with everyone in the room. And, like, that's not sexual assault at that point. If you're telling people to 'stop being a p***y and f*** me' and then they f*** you, they haven't committed a crime.

And again, the flip-flop on what happened with Formenton is astounding.

These players are all kinda gross douchebags (as is the accuser) but this doesn't look anything like a conviction will happen and I can't really see an argument for them not returning to the NHL.

What a waste of time. And I wouldn’t be surprised Rick Westhead faces a ton of lawsuits for peddling the narrative that this was a gang rape.

Looking at his twitter, it’s clear he’s reporting this case with an angle. He is purposefully cutting key details from quotes of the trial and turning off comments in regards to E.M but leaving the comments on when it comes to the accused men.

This isn’t even like the Virtanen situation where you had multiple people come forward accusing Virtanen of sexual misconduct and he was found not guilty because of lack of evidence. We literally have multiple testimonies (and a lot more to come) that suggests (in principle) the London incident was consensual.

You can’t rescind consent after the fact. Regret is not the same as rape. And again I’m always inclined to believe the victim but the facts of this case thus far have shown it’s not what it was portrayed to be at all.

 

[I am toxic]

It may be the prosecution was relying on the statements from McLeod, Dube and Formenton (2 statements) back in 2018, and then got denied in pre-trial hearings that were not aired until now - if so should have packed it in then and explained why they were dropping charges after the pre-trial hearing

Just like Formenton's lawyers should be disbarred for subverting the justice system, Hockey Canada's cover-up law firm Henein Hutchison, and the lawyer Robitaille should also face sanctions for their despicable behaviour. Pretty effin' ironic if the accused were found not guilty because they were "coerced" into giving a statement that was later ruled inadmissable

It would not be a surprise if the evidence from the other woman was also excluded in pre-trial hearings

And of course we still don't know what will come of the Peel Police investigation - if there is any cross-over with this case, the shit will hit the fan

 

[LemonSauceD]

I’ll also clarify I am more than willing to amend my current position as the trial goes on. The Cal Foote and the splits stuff, I honestly don’t know about that one. Steenbergen changed his account from 2018 saying Foote removed his underwear but in the trial he said he doesn’t remember.

 

[MS]

I’ll also clarify I am more than willing to amend my current position as the trial goes on. The Cal Foote and the splits stuff, I honestly don’t know about that one. Steenbergen changed his account from 2018 saying Foote removed his underwear but in the trial he said he doesn’t remember.

Oh, absolutely. If something changes I'll change my opinion with it.

But right now this seems like a bunch of young, dumb 19 and 20 year old kids (of both genders) just being drunk and gross.

And the accuser is just not credible. Not sure how you go from 'Formenton followed me into the bathroom and raped me' to 'well, it's possible that while putting on my porn star persona I may have actually been the one who grabbed him and took him into the bathroom'.

And it sucks because such a high-profile case is just going to have every dumb redneck dude in Canada saying 'ha yeah whenever this happens it's just some crazy slut inventing lies' and undermine the future credibility of actual victims.