GDT: Around The League 24/25. Parity, blessed parity.

[TheNumber4]

A little info on the Koekkoek story:

Former Oilers defenseman reveals the words from Ken Holland that ended his career

He played in two seasons with the Oilers, only a total of 37 games, before calling it a career.

www.yardbarker.com

The article kind of grossly misinterpets that exchange. Holland didn’t mean it as an insult. Just came off as brutal honesty to me. And if you listen to KK response, I don’t think he took it as an insult, but used the comment as a chance to reevaluate life.

 

[Oilhawks]

The article kind of grossly misinterpets that exchange. Holland didn’t mean it as an insult. Just came off as brutal honesty to me. And if you listen to KK response, I don’t think he took it as an insult, but used the comment as a chance to reevaluate life.

Yeah, this is how I read that as well.

 

[TheNumber4]

Yeah, this is how I read that as well.

Yeh it was posted on the mains as well. To my surprise, no one is giving Holland or the Oilers the gears for that comment.

Kinda shows KK was signed as just a filler type guy though, and maybe Holland didn’t see upward potential there though. But that’s another discussion.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

Man I haven’t seen this type of vitriol towards a team since…well…us. Circa 2012-2014

We were damn lucky to win the McDavid lottery in 2015. If we didn't this would probably be us.

 

[94 Oil Drops]

We were damn lucky to win the McDavid lottery in 2015. If we didn't this would probably be us.

Draisaitl alone would probably keep us out of the basement but yeah. Maybe we'd fluke into the playoffs once but there would more likely be 2 straight decades of darkness instead of 1 if we don't win that lottery. Still, gotta feel for Sabers fans.

 

[TB12]

The article kind of grossly misinterpets that exchange. Holland didn’t mean it as an insult. Just came off as brutal honesty to me. And if you listen to KK response, I don’t think he took it as an insult, but used the comment as a chance to reevaluate life.

Yeah, this is how I read that as well.

This. You have to be honest with athletes. Maybe the wording wasn't absolutely perfect but what is Holland supposed to say to players? KK asked why he was getting scratched and he was honest with him.

Mental health issues suck but I'm unsure how being honest with a player isn't the correct approach. This "writer" of the article takes a weird slant on the whole thing and honestly misinterprets a lot of it. Exactly what I'd expect from that quality of website.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

Draisaitl alone would probably keep us out of the basement but yeah. Maybe we'd fluke into the playoffs once but there would more likely be 2 straight decades of darkness instead of 1 if we don't win that lottery. Still, gotta feel for Sabers fans.

Draisatl has definitely forged his own identity but McDavid had his own hand in that too. I remember his rookie campaign and how not ready he was no matter how much Oilers brass wanted to believe otherwise.

It's tough to say how far Draisatl would've come without McDavid.

 

[North]

This. You have to be honest with athletes. Maybe the wording wasn't absolutely perfect but what is Holland supposed to say to players? KK asked why he was getting scratched and he was honest with him.

Mental health issues suck but I'm unsure how being honest with a player isn't the correct approach. This "writer" of the article takes a weird slant on the whole thing and honestly misinterprets a lot of it. Exactly what I'd expect from that quality of website.

My question is was Holland aware of his mental health issues?

Maybe if he was he would have been a little less blunt but ultimately as a player you usually already know why you’re not playing more. If you don’t want the truth, don’t ask the question.

 

[TB12]

My question is was Holland aware of his mental health issues?

Maybe if he was he would have been a little less blunt but ultimately as a player you usually already know why you’re not playing more. If you don’t want the truth, don’t ask the question.

That's a good question. Sounds like KK was keeping it to himself but who knows? I know he did seek help eventually, but that seems like it was on his own. Still so much stigma around MH, especially in pro sports. Sad if he didn't feel he could reach out to the team for help.

 

[bellagiobob]

 

[bellagiobob]

Lol

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

Lol

Always everyone else's fault but his own.

 

[Drivesaitl]

The article kind of grossly misinterpets that exchange. Holland didn’t mean it as an insult. Just came off as brutal honesty to me. And if you listen to KK response, I don’t think he took it as an insult, but used the comment as a chance to reevaluate life.

The angle that I don't get that the article is going for is suggesting that its some dinosaur mentality to be frank about a pro players chances. Should Holland just let the player waste further time in his life?

This comment particularly is being applied to the highly competitive world of pro sports, and regarding NHL, highest rung of hockey:

that is still likely the case, but this comment to a player is the type of old-school mentality that needs to be eliminated from hockey.

So this is the inclusion message, but its being applied to the multimillion buck world of the NHL and allegedly teams should just appreciate and support and highly pay a guy that isn't coping with the pressures of the role and is found to be underperforming.

So we're lead to believe in the article that evaluation and review of performance "is old school mentality and needs to be eliminated" This leads to the slippery slope thinking that any place of employ should not evaluate performance of anybody with any alleged challenges. Just pay em. Even if its Million buck type pay.

"The player was trying their best" Just keep them because of that. more participation ribbons please. These assertions are ridiculous in context.

The article isn't a fair read on the expectations of performance of pro sports.

 

[K1984]

The angle that I don't get that the article is going for is suggesting that its some dinosaur mentality to be frank about a pro players chances. Should Holland just let the player waste further time in his life?

This comment particularly is being applied to the highly competitive world of pro sports, and regarding NHL, highest rung of hockey:

that is still likely the case, but this comment to a player is the type of old-school mentality that needs to be eliminated from hockey.

So this is the inclusion message, but its being applied to the multimillion buck world of the NHL and allegedly teams should just appreciate and support and highly pay a guy that isn't coping with the pressures of the role and is found to be underperforming.

So we're lead to believe in the article that evaluation and review of performance "is old school mentality and needs to be eliminated" This leads to the slippery slope thinking that any place of employ should not evaluate performance of anybody with any alleged challenges. Just pay em. Even if its Million buck type pay.

"The player was trying their best" Just keep them because of that. more participation ribbons please. These assertions are ridiculous in context.

The article isn't a fair read on the expectations of performance of pro sports.

"He should have just not told him he sucked, or told him he sucked nicer."

To each their own, but if I effectively had my NHL career end, but learn after of criticism that I never directly heard that may have helped me stay longer, I would be pissed off.

Because handling the guy with kid gloves and effectively lie to him only to have his career end anyways is better.

 

[Drivesaitl]

This. You have to be honest with athletes. Maybe the wording wasn't absolutely perfect but what is Holland supposed to say to players? KK asked why he was getting scratched and he was honest with him.

Mental health issues suck but I'm unsure how being honest with a player isn't the correct approach. This "writer" of the article takes a weird slant on the whole thing and honestly misinterprets a lot of it. Exactly what I'd expect from that quality of website.

The article is a spin inclusion piece applied to the harsh reality and performance expectation of the highest rung of hockey, in a pro sport. An alternate spin could just as easily be "Ken Holland and the Oilers give struggling player that Tampa gave up on a next chance in the highly competitive world of pro sports" Because thats closer to the story on what happened. The article is implying that different treatement and toi and extension ought to be granted on the basis of individual challenges. But that isn't the performance context of pro sports which has to be results based. Merit based.

The author of the article is not misinterpreting. Its an agenda piece. Its the intent to slam Holland in this.

"He should have just not told him he sucked, or told him he sucked nicer."

To each their own, but if I effectively had my NHL career end, but learn after of criticism that I never directly heard that may have helped me stay longer, I would be pissed off.

Because handling the guy with kid gloves and effectively lie to him only to have his career end anyways is better.

For clarity the bolded was quotation, isn't my view, its the article slant. yeah I don't think what Holland did is out of the ordinary. The articles slant is misguided. so much so that I don't think anybody is rallying on the articles purported view.

 

[K1984]

The article is a spin inclusion piece applied to the harsh reality and performance expectation of the highest rung of hockey, in a pro sport. An alternate spin could just as easily be "Ken Holland and the Oilers give struggling player that Tampa gave up on a next chance in the highly competitive world of pro sports" Because thats closer to the story on what happened. The article is implying that different treatement and toi and extension ought to be granted on the basis of individual challenges. But that isn't the performance context of pro sports which has to be results based. Merit based.


For clarity the bolded isn't my view, its the article slant. I don't think what Holland did is out of the ordinary. The articles slant is misguided.

No I'm with you 100%, was sarcastic in my post.

Being simple and direct with people is now considered "mean" or "old school." The fact that this approach hurts the people it's directed at? Secondary to making them "feel" better.

 

[Drivesaitl]

No I'm with you 100%, was sarcastic in my post.

Being simple and direct with people is now considered "mean" or "old school." The fact that this approach hurts the people it's directed at? Secondary to making them "feel" better.

For sure. Decades ago this is what my First year University English prof wrote on my paper: "The purpose of English is to communicate clear and commonsense, you evidently have not discovered that purpose"



For a bit I thought that was harsh, but soon realized it was candid, that the Prof took a chance being critical, cared enough to push a student, and just gave me further determination to improve in writing.

Today the prof would be fired for the comment. He gave me a 6/10 anyway. heh

 

[K1984]

For sure. Decades ago this is what my First year University English prof wrote on my paper: "The purpose of English is to communicate clear and commonsense, you evidently have not discovered that purpose"



For a bit I thought that was harsh, but soon realized it was candid, that the Prof took a chance being critical, and just gave me further determination to improve in writing.

Today the prof would be fired for the comment. He gave me a 6/10 anyway. heh

My career would be a whole lot different if one of my early bosses didn't rip me for (unknowingly at the time) immature behaviour and didn't straight up tell me "your work sucks, this isn't school anymore where 80% is good enough."

 

[5 Mins 4 Ftg]

Lol

My guess is Dom has never held a hockey stick in his life but here he is lecturing a guy who played in the bigs for multiple seasons like the smug asshole that he and so many of the advanced stats online community specialize in being.

 

[TB12]

The angle that I don't get that the article is going for is suggesting that its some dinosaur mentality to be frank about a pro players chances. Should Holland just let the player waste further time in his life?

This comment particularly is being applied to the highly competitive world of pro sports, and regarding NHL, highest rung of hockey:

that is still likely the case, but this comment to a player is the type of old-school mentality that needs to be eliminated from hockey.

So this is the inclusion message, but its being applied to the multimillion buck world of the NHL and allegedly teams should just appreciate and support and highly pay a guy that isn't coping with the pressures of the role and is found to be underperforming.

So we're lead to believe in the article that evaluation and review of performance "is old school mentality and needs to be eliminated" This leads to the slippery slope thinking that any place of employ should not evaluate performance of anybody with any alleged challenges. Just pay em. Even if its Million buck type pay.

"The player was trying their best" Just keep them because of that. more participation ribbons please. These assertions are ridiculous in context.

The article isn't a fair read on the expectations of performance of pro sports.

I bet I could guess the age of the person who wrote the article within +/- 2 years.