GDT: Around The League 24/25. First month ends, the parity dream begins.

[Tarus]

It’s a little bit of both I think. Hockey equipment and programs are really expensive of course. But even families with the means, they are only going to dole out that money if their kid is super into it. No interest from the kids and even the Richie Riches of the world won’t be playing the sport. I know a couple of parents that wanted and were willing to pay for hockey for their kids, the kids just didn’t have interest.

You are right though regarding those other issues that could be affecting their interest. We living in the tik tok generation.

I'm not surprised about the lack of interest from the kids. Go outside in the cold and play hockey? Get up early in the morning to head to practice and play games? There are so many easier things they could be doing. The intersection between kids who want to play hockey and families who have the wealth to facilitate access to it is always going to be a minority, especially when you consider that the further up the wealth index you go, the less children families have.

Aspiring to make the NHL has probably never been more out of reach for the average middle class kid and his family than it is today too. Common threads among NHL prospects these days include things like familial ties to former players/coaches/sports figures(NBA/NFL etc), significant time in hockey academies around the country during formative years(35K to 75k per year tuition costs), year round hockey leagues, and access to things like personal trainers and nutritionist at a young age.

 

[TheNumber4]

I'm not surprised about the lack of interest from the kids. Go outside in the cold and play hockey? Get up early in the morning to head to practice and play games? There are so many easier things they could be doing. The intersection between kids who want to play hockey and families who have the wealth to facilitate access to it is always going to be a minority, especially when you consider that the further up the wealth index you go, the less children families have.

Aspiring to make the NHL has probably never been more out of reach for the average middle class kid and his family than it is today too. Common threads among NHL prospects these days include things like familial ties to former players/coaches/sports figures(NBA/NFL etc), significant time in hockey academies around the country during formative years(35K to 75k per year tuition costs), year round hockey leagues, and access to things like personal trainers and nutritionist at a young age.

It really is an uphill battle to keep this hockey thing going in Canada based on all the points you've laid out. It's definitely not an easy path financially or motivationally. Things get easy when you have the passion for what your doing though. Do kids have the same passion for the game as their parents did? Probably less likely than ever before.

 

[Mr Kot]

I'm not surprised about the lack of interest from the kids. Go outside in the cold and play hockey? Get up early in the morning to head to practice and play games? There are so many easier things they could be doing. The intersection between kids who want to play hockey and families who have the wealth to facilitate access to it is always going to be a minority, especially when you consider that the further up the wealth index you go, the less children families have.

Aspiring to make the NHL has probably never been more out of reach for the average middle class kid and his family than it is today too. Common threads among NHL prospects these days include things like familial ties to former players/coaches/sports figures(NBA/NFL etc), significant time in hockey academies around the country during formative years(35K to 75k per year tuition costs), year round hockey leagues, and access to things like personal trainers and nutritionist at a young age.

Yeah, the days of a kid playing in a backyard rink making the big leagues is gone and done. Too much of a movement into an "athlete factory" where you have to be coached from day 1 and pay the money to do so every year until they (maybe) make it big. Not a lot of grassroots players these days, which is sad because you can see some kids are very talented, but just don't have the money.

I know it's a bit faux pau to be happy when something collapses, but youth hockey needs to collapse and be rebuilt. Probably won't happen since the prospect of massive money in the big leagues will most likely not disappear any time soon, thus keeping the training and production of top end equipment the gatekeeper for the foreseeable future. NHL has to basically revert to pre 80's NHL in terms of business in order for the price of entry to drop enough for regular people to have a chance.

 

[Drivesaitl]

The decline of children in hockey has nothing to do with the NHL, the quality of the product, or it's leadership. Hockey is a hyper expensive niche sport with a lot of barriers preventing people from getting into it, a long standing problem that has been exacerbated in recent years by an inflation plagued economy and spiraling costs. NHL has never had, nor ever will have control over such things, and it's not a matter of just making the sport more popular.

It's not even an NHL problem either despite Seravalli's alarmism, sports participation among kids is declining across all sports, especially in Canada. There are a whole host of issues affecting participation beyond just the monetary aspect too, including rampant obesity, limited availability of facilities, increased anti-social behavior, and a generation of kids plagued by extremely short attention spans brought on by non-stop instant gratification feedback loops(social media, tiktok, video games etc).

Great post. You missed one thing though that from a family POV a lot of parents now steer kids away from potentially debillitating sports like Hockey and to other athletic endeavor. But I also appreciate your take on the amount of time required to really participate in hockey. That its just much harder to learn to skate, play etc and of course equipment cost. The time investment now goes into sports like Soccer invariably because its something for any skill level and at negligible cost.

Its not just sports declining its athletic participation declining. We have a toboggan hill just a block away. The unofficial gauge is theres 10X less use there than it used to be and when there are people using the hill its families, i.e. parents taking their kids to the hill. To see kids alone tobaggoning now is almost unheard of. It used to be the mode.

Another thing is that before the introduction of ebikes cycling was on a big decline and apparently as people didn't like the effort involved. Now its had a resurgence but not sure how much of it is on peddling or just coasting with the e battery doing the work.

 

[Stumbledore]

I'm not surprised about the lack of interest from the kids. Go outside in the cold and play hockey? Get up early in the morning to head to practice and play games? There are so many easier things they could be doing. The intersection between kids who want to play hockey and families who have the wealth to facilitate access to it is always going to be a minority, especially when you consider that the further up the wealth index you go, the less children families have.

Aspiring to make the NHL has probably never been more out of reach for the average middle class kid and his family than it is today too. Common threads among NHL prospects these days include things like familial ties to former players/coaches/sports figures(NBA/NFL etc), significant time in hockey academies around the country during formative years(35K to 75k per year tuition costs), year round hockey leagues, and access to things like personal trainers and nutritionist at a young age.

Excellent points. The tall foreheads in hockey need to read this a few times.

 

[Optimistic Cynic]

Aspiring to make the NHL has probably never been more out of reach for the average middle class kid and his family than it is today too. Common threads among NHL prospects these days include things like familial ties to former players/coaches/sports figures(NBA/NFL etc), significant time in hockey academies around the country during formative years(35K to 75k per year tuition costs), year round hockey leagues, and access to things like personal trainers and nutritionist at a young age.

You hit the nail of the head. Hockey is way expensive and families can't afford it anymore. And the familes with the higher incomes have fewer kids. Even with 2 wages and cheaper daycare, you can't outfit your kid hockey and still pay for the groceries.

 

[TopShelfGloveSide]

The amount of time you need to dedicate to your kids hockey is absurd. U11 practise more than NBA teams .

 

[Oilhawks]

Can't imagine why Gary??

Time for new management, but I'm sure Gary and company will run it into the ground before they dare 'retire'

And yeah, @Tarus is right too, but a shit pro product doesn't really help either

 

[Tarus]

Great post. You missed one thing though that from a family POV a lot of parents now steer kids away from potentially debillitating sports like Hockey and to other athletic endeavor. But I also appreciate your take on the amount of time required to really participate in hockey. That its just much harder to learn to skate, play etc and of course equipment cost. The time investment now goes into sports like Soccer invariably because its something for any skill level and at negligible cost.

Its not just sports declining its athletic participation declining. We have a toboggan hill just a block away. The unofficial gauge is theres 10X less use there than it used to be and when there are people using the hill its families, i.e. parents taking their kids to the hill. To see kids alone tobaggoning now is almost unheard of. It used to be the mode.

Another thing is that before the introduction of ebikes cycling was on a big decline and apparently as people didn't like the effort involved. Now its had a resurgence but not sure how much of it is on peddling or just coasting with the e battery doing the work.

Shouldn't underestimate how much helicopter parenting has had an effect on things as well. Lot of us grew up in an era when we were allowed to go to the ice rink/Toboggan hills by ourselves and roam neighborhoods on our bikes.

These days if you let your 11 year old walk two blocks away unsupervised and the police are likely to arrest you(actual story from this week, mother got arrested down in the states)

 

[BlackDogg]

Shouldn't underestimate how much helicopter parenting has had an effect on things as well. Lot of us grew up in an era when we were allowed to go to the ice rink/Toboggan hills by ourselves and roam neighborhoods on our bikes.

These days if you let your 11 year old walk two blocks away unsupervised and the police are likely to arrest you(actual story from this week, mother got arrested down in the states)

Yep, at that age, most parents in our day wouldn't stick around the rink - would just let you go yourself, once you are able to tie your skates. That is out of reality now in cities for sure, maybe less so in small towns.

No games tomorrow. What a cuck league, scared crapless of the NFL. No reason not to have some games in Canada tomorrow night.

In Canada, did we have any games on Thanksgiving? I don't think so - one wonders why they try and take every bit of enjoyment out of it.

 

[TopShelfGloveSide]

No games tomorrow. What a cuck league, scared crapless of the NFL. No reason not to have some games in Canada tomorrow night.

The NHL has no idea what it’s doing. Dana white said that it’s run by idiots and he’s right.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Shouldn't underestimate how much helicopter parenting has had an effect on things as well. Lot of us grew up in an era when we were allowed to go to the ice rink/Toboggan hills by ourselves and roam neighborhoods on our bikes.

These days if you let your 11 year old walk two blocks away unsupervised and the police are likely to arrest you(actual story from this week, mother got arrested down in the states)

I followed that story with great interest. Local authorities gone out of control. Also the parent seems very much to be allowing the healthy upbringing that used to occur. Authorities need to determine if such a case involves neglect and lack of care or whether the parent is making decisions and is competent. Its likely that somebody reported the boy at large but its up to the authorities to do a proper assessment, if deemed required, at all. The chances are in this case the authorities created trauma where possibly none existed.

Also some of the information cited in jurisdictions is misleading. For instance in Alberta some believe you cannot leave a 12 yr old unattended. This is inaccurate. if the parent and child establish a pattern of being responsibly left alone, and with contacts or safeguards in place, it is of course allowed. Again the investigation need only focus on neglect and lack of care. I think not the case in the Georgia instance.

Authorities might also fathom a difference in communities, and in actions and that perhaps a town where only 350people live and all know each other is different than an urban environment. The parent correctly states this is a more free roam area. She seems to have understood and assessed what is best for child.

 

[North]

The NHL has no idea what it’s doing. Dana white said that it’s run by idiots and he’s right.

We didn’t need Dana White to tell us that.

They literally sit back and let the refs decide games while holding back their star players.

 

[BlackDogg]

We didn’t need Dana White to tell us that.

They literally sit back and let the refs decide games while holding back their star players.

The officials are the game now. How often is any audit or punishment doled out to them? Games should be audited to keep the subjective aspect to a minimum. Everything they do is to protect them from the players and the fans.

Another killer of the game is the subjective nature of parros and company. All of this stems back to the top.

 

[TheNumber4]

I’ve always had the theory that EP40 lost his smile cause that sociopath JT Miller was too mean to him.

Maybe I was onto something:

 

[BlackDogg]

I’ve always had the theory that EP40 lost his smile cause that sociopath JT Miller was too mean to him.

Maybe I was onto something:

Oh great, sounds like a project guy for the Oilers.

 

[Oilhawks]

I’ve always had the theory that EP40 lost his smile cause that sociopath JT Miller was too mean to him.

Maybe I was onto something:

Poor widdle Petey, JT is a meany pants

 

[TheNumber4]

Oh great, sounds like a project guy for the Oilers.

Who Petey? Yeh we could turn him around. We got better chants.

Poor widdle Petey, JT is a meany pants

Nucks chants are trash. I blame the fanbase really.

 

[TopShelfGloveSide]

EP seems like a gigantic weenie.

 

[Tobias Kahun]

EP seems like a gigantic weenie.

Looks like one too

 

[CycloneSweep]

Great post. You missed one thing though that from a family POV a lot of parents now steer kids away from potentially debillitating sports like Hockey and to other athletic endeavor. But I also appreciate your take on the amount of time required to really participate in hockey. That its just much harder to learn to skate, play etc and of course equipment cost. The time investment now goes into sports like Soccer invariably because its something for any skill level and at negligible cost.

Its not just sports declining its athletic participation declining. We have a toboggan hill just a block away. The unofficial gauge is theres 10X less use there than it used to be and when there are people using the hill its families, i.e. parents taking their kids to the hill. To see kids alone tobaggoning now is almost unheard of. It used to be the mode.

Another thing is that before the introduction of ebikes cycling was on a big decline and apparently as people didn't like the effort involved. Now its had a resurgence but not sure how much of it is on peddling or just coasting with the e battery doing the work.

Soccer is kind of the pinnacle of equality for sports really. For the most part any kid can go far as long as they have the skill. Unlike football and hockey where you have to be relatively wealthy to even participate and train. That and the base ability required to play is "Can you walk?". Basketball is similar.

I find kids being outdoor less to be a huge mix of things. The general feeling that the world is more unsafe now, so people don't feel comfortable letting their kids roam. To kids having other interests now (Covid really solidified a lot of "indoor kid" behavior). I also think the decline of having a stay at home parent too has made a lot of families stay at home so they can watch the kids and catch up on the weeks chores. I feel bad cause as much as an indoor kid I was, I also spent a ton of time outside roaming and trying to talk to people. That seems mostly gone.

Cycling I think declined due to the mix of effort, speed and unbike friendly areas. I had once thought about just moving to biking everywhere instead of driving...and did for a bit, lived downtown, worked on Whyte ave but climbing that hill out of the river valley was more than I wanted to do every day. There have been quite a few cities in the world where cycling numbers stayed up but that was because they were very bike friendly and easy to navigate on one.

 

[Stoneman89]

Soccer is kind of the pinnacle of equality for sports really. For the most part any kid can go far as long as they have the skill. Unlike football and hockey where you have to be relatively wealthy to even participate and train. That and the base ability required to play is "Can you walk?". Basketball is similar.

I find kids being outdoor less to be a huge mix of things. The general feeling that the world is more unsafe now, so people don't feel comfortable letting their kids roam. To kids having other interests now (Covid really solidified a lot of "indoor kid" behavior). I also think the decline of having a stay at home parent too has made a lot of families stay at home so they can watch the kids and catch up on the weeks chores. I feel bad cause as much as an indoor kid I was, I also spent a ton of time outside roaming and trying to talk to people. That seems mostly gone.

Cycling I think declined due to the mix of effort, speed and unbike friendly areas. I had once thought about just moving to biking everywhere instead of driving...and did for a bit, lived downtown, worked on Whyte ave but climbing that hill out of the river valley was more than I wanted to do every day. There have been quite a few cities in the world where cycling numbers stayed up but that was because they were very bike friendly and easy to navigate on one.

Not to mention that in River City, the weather is not the greatest for cycling for a huge chunk of the year.

 

[frag2]

EP seems like a gigantic weenie.

Looks like one too

Perfect for their fanbase. Just like them.

 

[K1984]

I’ve always had the theory that EP40 lost his smile cause that sociopath JT Miller was too mean to him.

Maybe I was onto something:

It really isn't hard to see why. JT Miller is a dink, but he works hard and plays with intensity.

It would probably ruffle my feathers too if I was all in and skated back to the bench to see "let's go Petey" casually sitting there and staring off into blank space as he does while producing all of zero.