Around the League - 2022-23 Season Edition

[notDatsyuk]

Who the (beep) is Alex Wennberg?

I was looking at the takeaway leaders, and most of the top 10 are the usual suspects.

A couple with more gives than takes (Malkin 71 54 and Barzal 67 48), a couple about even (Marner 62 68 and McDavid 58 52), and several with about double the takes (Hagel 30 65, Nylander 24 53, Couture 21 51, Thomas 28 50, and Stone 22 47).

But Wennberg has almost 3½ times as many takes (17 58). Impressive.

 

[SprDaVE]

If the Flames are a crap show... we'll take Kadri off their hands no problem.

 

[Fogelhund]

If the Flames are a crap show... we'll take Kadri off their hands no problem.

You are kidding right?

 

[kb]

If the Flames are a crap show... we'll take Kadri off their hands no problem.

Hard pass. Hard

 

[SprDaVE]

You are kidding right?

Hard pass. Hard

I'm half kidding. I'd love Kadri to make his way back but the contract is a hard fit.

 

[Peasy]

Yeah I'd much rather keep jt and sign him for around that amount than get Kadri back

 

[Fogelhund]

I'm half kidding. I'd love Kadri to make his way back but the contract is a hard fit.

There is zero chance, that this management group would want Kadri back, even if the cost was a 7th, 50% retained.

 

[1specter]

There is zero chance, that this management group would want Kadri back, even if the cost was a 7th, 50% retained.

If that was the case then they're complete morons who should be fired.

 

[Fogelhund]

If that was the case then they're complete morons who should be fired.

Are you unaware as to why he was traded? The many years of conflict between him, management, and every coach here?

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

Are you unaware as to why he was traded? The many years of conflict between him, management, and every coach here?

doesn't change the fact that anyone who would turn down Kadri for 3.5 million isn't fit to work in an NHL front office. Personal feelings towards a player don't matter very much

 

[Dekes For Days]

Not sure why a one-way 50-60 point forward (if given prime PP opportunities) in his mid-30s making 7m for the next 6+ years that isn't being traded and would just go back to being repeatedly suspended here is even a point of discussion in the first place.

 

[ACC1224]

There is zero chance, that this management group would want Kadri back, even if the cost was a 7th, 50% retained.

100% he would be back for that, you have to give Dubas a little credit here
Zero chance he would be moved for that.

 

[Sypher04]

Watching Tampa play, I definitely think they were better last year than this year, despite their record.

I think we match up better against them this year too...

IN SAYING THAT

Their stars were pretty pedestrian last year and they still won the series...can't always bank on that, man this format sucks ass lol.

Their stars were not pedestrian. Not really sure why people make stuff like this up to minimize our series. It’s a weird thing to do as a fan of this team.

The only one you could maybe make argument for is Vasi and even there goalies are hard to attribute. How much of bad stats are on them specifically, and how much is a result of things the other team was doing to make it hard on them. When push comes to shove, he came through in the big moments where his team needed him to.

 

[Sypher04]

doesn't change the fact that anyone who would turn down Kadri for 3.5 million isn't fit to work in an NHL front office. Personal feelings towards a player don't matter very much

I don’t think that’s a fact at all. We see instances of players being passed over by GMs all the time to due to character issues.

 

[1specter]

Are you unaware as to why he was traded? The many years of conflict between him, management, and every coach here?

Both Carlyle and Babcock liked Kadri a lot and Naz also had good things to say about them, most of his issues were with Ron Wilson, and by all accounts he became mature and cleaned his off-ice stuff up after 2015.

Also, Kadri was beloved in the room. Here is a quote from Matthews literally from just a year ago:



There are also multiple interviews from Leafs players past and present who mentioned that Kadri brought the most positive/optimistic energy to the locker room.

People like to make him a scapegoat cause of the playoff suspensions, but the reality is the stuff he was suspended for was just another night at the office for the Boston Bruins. Chara alone committed multiple suspendable infractions in our playoff series and he never even got penalized. The other reality is that it never should've been a 1v23 situation, and the team didn't stand up for each other back then or had the balls to go out there and band together around Nazem. It was always him who looked out for teammates.

Lastly, when you read his players tribune article I Am Who I Am | By Nazem Kadri you even see how much he loved being a Leaf and living in Toronto. Many guys shy away from the spotlight or can't handle the pressure and we had a guy who wanted to relish in it and take it head on. Dubas and everyone else should 100% be fired if they were ever in a situation to get Kadri at 3.5M for limited assets.

I don’t think that’s a fact at all. We see instances of players being passed over by GMs all the time to due to character issues.

Sure, but Kadri is not a locker room cancer or a person of poor character. Many Leafs players and Avalanche players have had nothing but good things to say about him.

Painting him as if he's Evander Kane or a Tony D'Angelo type is just dishonest.

 

[Sypher04]

Both Carlyle and Babcock liked Kadri a lot and Naz also had good things to say about them, most of his issues were with Ron Wilson, and by all accounts he became mature and cleaned his off-ice stuff up after 2015.

Also, Kadri was beloved in the room. Here is a quote from Matthews literally from just a year ago:



There are also multiple interviews from Leafs players past and present who mentioned that Kadri brought the most positive/optimistic energy to the locker room.

People like to make him a scapegoat cause of the playoff suspensions, but the reality is the stuff he was suspended for was just another night at the office for the Boston Bruins. Chara alone committed multiple suspendable infractions in our playoff series and he never even got penalized. The other reality is that it never should've been a 1v23 situation, and the team didn't stand up for each other back then or had the balls to go out there and band together around Nazem. It was always him who looked out for teammates.

Lastly, when you read his players tribune article I Am Who I Am | By Nazem Kadri you even see how much he loved being a Leaf and living in Toronto. Many guys shy away from the spotlight or can't handle the pressure and we had a guy who wanted to relish in it and take it head on. Dubas and everyone else should 100% be fired if they were ever in a situation to get Kadri at 3.5M for limited assets.


Sure, but Kadri is not a locker room cancer or a person of poor character. Many Leafs players and Avalanche players have had nothing but good things to say about him.

Painting him as if he's Evander Kane or a Tony D'Angelo type is just dishonest.

I’m not. FWIW I loved Naz. Character issues come in many forms. Kadri’s warts were always related to his perceived lack of professionalism (also yapping/diving/suspensions). Whether earned or not.

 

[Fogelhund]

Both Carlyle and Babcock liked Kadri a lot and Naz also had good things to say about them, most of his issues were with Ron Wilson, and by all accounts he became mature and cleaned his off-ice stuff up after 2015.

Also, Kadri was beloved in the room. Here is a quote from Matthews literally from just a year ago:



There are also multiple interviews from Leafs players past and present who mentioned that Kadri brought the most positive/optimistic energy to the locker room.

People like to make him a scapegoat cause of the playoff suspensions, but the reality is the stuff he was suspended for was just another night at the office for the Boston Bruins. Chara alone committed multiple suspendable infractions in our playoff series and he never even got penalized. The other reality is that it never should've been a 1v23 situation, and the team didn't stand up for each other back then or had the balls to go out there and band together around Nazem. It was always him who looked out for teammates.

Lastly, when you read his players tribune article I Am Who I Am | By Nazem Kadri you even see how much he loved being a Leaf and living in Toronto. Many guys shy away from the spotlight or can't handle the pressure and we had a guy who wanted to relish in it and take it head on. Dubas and everyone else should 100% be fired if they were ever in a situation to get Kadri at 3.5M for limited assets.


Sure, but Kadri is not a locker room cancer or a person of poor character. Many Leafs players and Avalanche players have had nothing but good things to say about him.

Painting him as if he's Evander Kane or a Tony D'Angelo type is just dishonest.

Sorry.. he had run in's with every coach from Eakins on. Yes, the issues of 2015 are well documented, but at the end of the day, he was traded for a repeated lack of maturity, and lack of responsibility for his actions. It wasn't JUST the playoff suspensions, but it was everything that lead up to that, culminating in that. They worked with him for years, and he never really improved. He was a guy you couldn't trust. Even his words recently about the Leafs show a lack of taking responsibility for his actions.

I appreciate he isn't a locker room cancer, but at some point, when you tell someone you only get so many chances, you run out of chances. He ran out of chances with this org... If you've ever had kids, you'd understand... eventually there are consequences for your repeated actions.

 

[1specter]

They worked with him for years, and he never really improved.

Sorry, but you lose me here completely. We literally saw him change significantly as both a player and a person during his time here for the better.

 

[Sypher04]

Sorry, but you lose me here completely. We literally saw him change significantly as both a player and a person during his time here for the better.

His play definitely changed/improved, not sure I agree he changed much as a person

 

[1specter]

His play definitely changed/improved, not sure I agree he changed much as a person

He grew up, settled down and had a family, and has been involved in a lot of good stuff off-ice like philanthropic work etc. Compared to the stories earlier in his career, I'd say he definitely changed. And again, his Colorado teammates and coaching / management spoke very highly of his character.

 

[Sypher04]

He grew up, settled down and had a family, and has been involved in a lot of good stuff off-ice like philanthropic work etc. Compared to the stories earlier in his career, I'd say he definitely changed. And again, his Colorado teammates and coaching / management spoke very highly of his character.

He may have matured after getting traded and the wake up call, but he only got married 1 year before he was moved. I don’t think he likely changed super dramatically in the final year he was with the club. And even if he had, we’d never have seen that from the outside looking in.

 

[1specter]

He may have matured after getting traded and the wake up call, but he only got married 1 year before he was moved. I don’t think he likely changed super dramatically in the final year he was with the club. And even if he had, we’d never have seen that from the outside looking in.

If your only barometer for this is suspensions then that is pretty shortsighted IMO. To say he didn't change much as a person seems like a pretty ignorant thing to say given that he had various off-ice issues and other reported things that I won't get into here (but we all probably have an idea....) in the past which seemingly stopped after Babcock and Lou took over. Also it's not like he just met his now-wife and immediately got married, he obviously committed to a serious relationship for a while before that, just like he committed to being a more dedicated hockey player.

 

[Sypher04]

If your only barometer for this is suspensions then that is pretty shortsighted IMO. To say he didn't change much as a person seems like a pretty ignorant thing to say given that he had various off-ice issues and other reported things that I won't get into here (but we all probably have an idea....) in the past which seemingly stopped after Babcock and Lou took over. Also it's not like he just met his now-wife and immediately got married, he obviously committed to a serious relationship for a while before that, just like he committed to being a more dedicated hockey player.

Agree to disagree. My barometer is not simply suspensions btw. But I also think immediately attributing growth in maturity to getting married or starting a family is a fallacy. Anecdotally, some of the least mature people I know are long married and have multiple children. I don’t think it fundamentally changes people at their core - or at least it’s 50/50 at best

 

[1specter]

Agree to disagree. My barometer is not simply suspensions btw. But I also think immediately attributing growth in maturity to getting married or starting a family is a fallacy. Anecdotally, some of the least mature people I know are long married and have multiple children. I don’t think it fundamentally changes people at their core - or at least it’s 50/50 at best

The bolded was simply one part of my argument. You think he didn't change much as a person, which I think given all the facts and the timeline of his career growth etc. I think is false, because even something like truly dedicating yourself to your career and changing your work ethic, working on all the little details etc starts with changing as a person and changing your character in the first place. Also, Lou and Babs had no tolerance for guys who didn't work hard or had character problems, and if Kadri was still an immature problematic individual Lou would've just moved on from him as he did from many in the past, he's an old school guy who doesn't f*** around and Babs too was a well documented hardass.

Also, I never said being married changed him, my point was more that it was a reflection of where he was as an individual, as again his off-ice stories in the past painted a very different person.

If you think Kadri at 18/19 to about ~24/25 was the same as him in his later 20s here then I don't know what to tell you.

 

[Fogelhund]

He grew up, settled down and had a family, and has been involved in a lot of good stuff off-ice like philanthropic work etc. Compared to the stories earlier in his career, I'd say he definitely changed. And again, his Colorado teammates and coaching / management spoke very highly of his character.

He still blames the Leafs for trading him, no personal accountability at all. Even took a jab at them. That tells me right there where he's at, and I've seen plenty like that. Maturity and character is being able to recognize you were part of the problem... he hasn't shown one bit of that. If you choose to ignore that, that's up to you. Dubas and Shanahan are smart enough to recognize that.