GDT: Around the League - 2021/22 - Playoffs edition

[Gary Nylund]

Typical response,year after year,after year.
I have been listening to it for best part of 50years now.
Still waiting for a Cup though.
Excuses doth not a champion make.

Team game. When the team loses, it doesn't mean all the players played poorly.

 

[Gabriel426]

Colorado is the perfect example of why you don't give up on an elite core despite consistent playoffs failures.

Dude, they traded away ROR who went on to become a No. 1 C and won a Cup and Duchense.

Only Mack and Landy were part of their original core. Rantanen, Kadri and Makar became their current core after they retooled.

 

[kb]

What?

9 points in 7 games this year? 55% in the dot, lead the team in hits.

Are you even watching these games?

This opinion is one of someone who is not a Leaf fan, never was a Leaf fan......but it's all onside. So weird.

 

[zeke]

Dude, they traded away ROR who went on to become a No. 1 C and won a Cup and Duchense.

Only Mack and Landy were part of their original core. Rantanen, Kadri and Makar became their current core after they retooled.

What does what a non-playoffs Avs team did 8 years ago have to do with anything.

And why would you insinuate trading away soon to be cup winning #1C ROR was a good thing?

 

[hamzarocks]

What does what a non-playoffs Avs team did 8 years ago have to do with anything.

And why would you insinuate trading away soon to be cup winning #1C ROR was a good thing?

It set them on the path to retooling so they could contend?

Upgraded their roster from saving on RoR and Duchene who weren't good enough 1C and 3l2C to win with at the time due to the Avs having little depth(similar to us at the moment)

Got Girard+Byram from that along with space which was allocated to to bringing in guys like kadri+burn etc

The Avs being a non-playoff team led them to realize their core wasn't good enough to contend

The leafs being a perennial 1st round team should be doing likewise.

We also don't have a big core. It's the big 3 and a 11M 3rd line center come playoffs

We need to add core level talent to the team

Tavares is hardly a 1C now in the regular season and an absulte failure in the playoffs. Need a top2D or topLW to supplement his spot in the core

 

[Fogelhund]

Typical response,year after year,after year.
I have been listening to it for best part of 50years now.
Still waiting for a Cup though.
Excuses doth not a champion make.

It's not an excuse, it's called living in reality. No, the team didn't get the job done... but it wasn't because Matthews was a no show. If that is what you try and pass as quality judgement.....

 

[ACC1224]

Typical response,year after year,after year.
I have been listening to it for best part of 50years now.
Still waiting for a Cup though.
Excuses doth not a champion make.

They weren’t that great the previous years though, criticism were earned. This they played well enough, IMO. Not enough though.

 

[Gabriel426]

What does what a non-playoffs Avs team did 8 years ago have to do with anything.

And why would you insinuate trading away soon to be cup winning #1C ROR was a good thing?

My point was Avs didn’t stay firmed with their core when they realise their core just can’t do it.
It also took another trade for ROR to become the No. 1 C he is today. Can he achieve that if Avs didn’t trade him away, we will never know.
The job for the GM is to make the team better to the point where the team can win the Cup and not married to their players. The only cup winning team that I would say kept the core together for more than 6 yrs while not winning the Cup is the Pens with Sid, Geno, Letang and MAF but they actually won a Cup to begin with.

 

[zeke]

My point was Avs didn’t stay firmed with their core when they realise their core just can’t do it.
It also took another trade for ROR to become the No. 1 C he is today. Can he achieve that if Avs didn’t trade him away, we will never know.
The job for the GM is to make the team better to the point where the team can win the Cup and not married to their players. The only cup winning team that I would say kept the core together for more than 6 yrs while not winning the Cup is the Pens with Sid, Geno, Letang and MAF but they actually won a Cup to begin with.

They traded ROR when they were a non playoffs team 8 years ago going nowhere.

Even worse, it was a bad trade.

But with their current elite core, they have failed and failed and failed in the playoffs, until now they are probably going to win a Cup to nobody's surprise.

 

[BertCorbeau]

My point was Avs didn’t stay firmed with their core when they realise their core just can’t do it.
It also took another trade for ROR to become the No. 1 C he is today. Can he achieve that if Avs didn’t trade him away, we will never know.
The job for the GM is to make the team better to the point where the team can win the Cup and not married to their players. The only cup winning team that I would say kept the core together for more than 6 yrs while not winning the Cup is the Pens with Sid, Geno, Letang and MAF but they actually won a Cup to begin with.

IIRC ROR had some drama around him at the time of the trade. The return Colorado got back was bad in hindsight. Now subsequent moves did help revamp their core in conjunction with their core players taking off in development.

The Duchene trade was his big coup in getting some quality pieces back, and the Kadri trade has ended up being a win overall.

Mackinnon going off from a 50-point player to a 90+ point stud centre was a flip of the switch helped too.

But it was their core of Mackinnon, Rantanen, Landy that they've stuck with since they starting making the playoffs. Their big revamp was moving Barrie and Kerfoot, and bringing in Kadri as well as some other key depth moves in Burakovsky and Nichushkin. The Toews trade was by far his biggest highway robbery too.

 

[Anthrax442]

 

[Gabriel426]

They traded ROR when they were a non playoffs team 8 years ago going nowhere.

Even worse, it was a bad trade.

But with their current elite core, they have failed and failed and failed in the playoffs, until now they are probably going to win a Cup to nobody's surprise.

Their current core failed to win the Cup the past few seasons but certainly didn’t fail to past the first round or didn’t bother showing up like some of our core in the past few seasons.
Not saying let’s trade player X for whatever but the job is to improve the team and not married to your core. Like if the Jets is willing to trade Helly for MM, that’s a deal should be make or at the very least consider instead of saying No Way.

 

[Nineteen67]

 

[Gabriel426]

IIRC ROR had some drama around him at the time of the trade. The return Colorado got back was bad in hindsight. Now subsequent moves did help revamp their core in conjunction with their core players taking off in development.

The Duchene trade was his big coup in getting some quality pieces back, and the Kadri trade has ended up being a win overall.

Mackinnon going off from a 50-point player to a 90+ point stud centre was a flip of the switch helped too.

But it was their core of Mackinnon, Rantanen, Landy that they've stuck with since they starting making the playoffs. Their big revamp was moving Barrie and Kerfoot, and bringing in Kadri as well as some other key depth moves in Burakovsky and Nichushkin. The Toews trade was by far his biggest highway robbery too.

My point is the goal is to win the Cup and to marry the core.
Caps’s original core included Green and Semin. But then they won the Cup, their core was Ovie, Backstorm, Wilson, Carlson and Kutz. The only cup winning team that sticked with their core is the Pens. Maybe we can consider TB too.

Also, ROR at least at the time with the Avs was overpaid and wasn’t there were rumours that Leafs was thinking trading Bozak for him or something like that. Anyhow, I doubt ROR will be the ROR today if he stayed with the Avs. In some way, I don’t think Mack will become the Mack today if ROR stayed around. Bc ROR will most likely always take the tougher matchups.

I know he is in top NHL shape but he looks fat and huge comparing to the other guy

 

[SeaOfBlue]

My point is the goal is to win the Cup and to marry the core.
Caps’s original core included Green and Semin. But then they won the Cup, their core was Ovie, Backstorm, Wilson, Carlson and Kutz. The only cup winning team that sticked with their core is the Pens. Maybe we can consider TB too.

Also, ROR at least at the time with the Avs was overpaid and wasn’t there were rumours that Leafs was thinking trading Bozak for him or something like that. Anyhow, I doubt ROR will be the ROR today if he stayed with the Avs. In some way, I don’t think Mack will become the Mack today if ROR stayed around. Bc ROR will most likely always take the tougher matchups.

If you are going to change up the core, you still need to get some core player back though. Most of the Nylander trades have been trading him for non-core players, or to open up money for non-core players. That is not what any of those teams did. Washington rode Green and Semin until they were no longer "core" caliber before replacing them with those other guys, and the Avalanche traded away their core players when they were still a rebuilding team; not in the middle of their competitive window. By that extension, the Leafs already moved on from Kessel, Phaneuf, JvR, Bozak, Kadri, etc. and unfortunately the only core player worth keeping from before our rebuild was Rielly.

 

[fahad203]

that give and go and chip pass was unreal
Finishing wasn't too bad either Alexander. That follow through was a good shooting form

You can tell he's played soccer alot and at high level

 

[3blizzard4]

Yeah, Vasilevskiy can shut a team down, but not even getting a shot on net?

The goalie doesn't have to shut you down if you don't shoot.

He will stop 100% of the shots you don’t take. -Dwayne Wetzky

 

[garce]

IIRC ROR had some drama around him at the time of the trade. The return Colorado got back was bad in hindsight. Now subsequent moves did help revamp their core in conjunction with their core players taking off in development.

The Duchene trade was his big coup in getting some quality pieces back, and the Kadri trade has ended up being a win overall.

Mackinnon going off from a 50-point player to a 90+ point stud centre was a flip of the switch helped too.

But it was their core of Mackinnon, Rantanen, Landy that they've stuck with since they starting making the playoffs. Their big revamp was moving Barrie and Kerfoot, and bringing in Kadri as well as some other key depth moves in Burakovsky and Nichushkin. The Toews trade was by far his biggest highway robbery too.

Burakovsky Nikushin and Toews will be the difference in them becoming a Cup winner, if they do, more so than the core. Their supplemental guys are producing over anyones expectations. Kadri was a splendid addition. If anyone knew these guys would produce like this last august igreat evaluations

 

[Nineteen67]

My point is the goal is to win the Cup and to marry the core.
Caps’s original core included Green and Semin. But then they won the Cup, their core was Ovie, Backstorm, Wilson, Carlson and Kutz. The only cup winning team that sticked with their core is the Pens. Maybe we can consider TB too.

Also, ROR at least at the time with the Avs was overpaid and wasn’t there were rumours that Leafs was thinking trading Bozak for him or something like that. Anyhow, I doubt ROR will be the ROR today if he stayed with the Avs. In some way, I don’t think Mack will become the Mack today if ROR stayed around. Bc ROR will most likely always take the tougher matchups.


I know he is in top NHL shape but he looks fat and huge comparing to the other guy

one of his legs weigh more than the other guy

 

[Gabriel426]

If you are going to change up the core, you still need to get some core player back though. Most of the Nylander trades have been trading him for non-core players, or to open up money for non-core players. That is not what any of those teams did. Washington rode Green and Semin until they were no longer "core" caliber before replacing them with those other guys, and the Avalanche traded away their core players when they were still a rebuilding team; not in the middle of their competitive window. By that extension, the Leafs already moved on from Kessel, Phaneuf, JvR, Bozak, Kadri, etc. and unfortunately the only core player worth keeping from before our rebuild was Rielly.

I agree, thats why I am all for trading core players to get better players and not a couple of solid players or open up cap space.
I find those Willie trades to be quite foolish as it doesn't open up cap space at all.
I am all for making trades that makes the team better like Helly for Marner, if thats the asking price for Helly.

 

[BallardEra]

 

[SeaOfBlue]

I agree, thats why I am all for trading core players to get better players and not a couple of solid players or open up cap space.
I find those Willie trades to be quite foolish as it doesn't open up cap space at all.
I am all for making trades that makes the team better like Helly for Marner, if thats the asking price for Helly.

Hellebuyck won't command that, and it is not a trade which makes us better. We need a good goalie, and Hellebuyck is good, but he is not anywhere near Marner.

Goalies just don't command that much, and we've even seen guys like Holtby fall off very fast at that age when they've had heavy workloads... even when they've been Vezina-level not too long before. It is the same risk for Gibson, except Gibson hasn't been great for a while.

 

[ULF_55]

Hellebuyck won't command that, and it is not a trade which makes us better. We need a good goalie, and Hellebuyck is good, but he is not anywhere near Marner.

Goalies just don't command that much, and we've even seen guys like Holtby fall off very fast at that age when they've had heavy workloads... even when they've been Vezina-level not too long before. It is the same risk for Gibson, except Gibson hasn't been great for a while.

Yeah, one of the Vezina candidates this year aged out in the 2nd. round.

How many games before you're a #1, has to be more than half right?

I suspect injuries played an impact in the following:
Would we say 50 games makes you the starter? That leaves 32 for the back-ups.

That gives you 17 starters, so 8 teams that had a starter missed the playoffs. Fleury is a tweener, Chicago-Minnesota usage.

Interestingly, 13 goalies played 41-49 games, including Campbell.

A platoon in net probably where we're looking at 44-38 split like Boston, Washington, St. Louis?

Are the Leafs looking for a true starter, or a platoon?

17 goalies played over 50 games, and 9 of those teams missed the playoffs (Fleury is the odd number here).

 

[Shooter2x]

Dude, they traded away ROR who went on to become a No. 1 C and won a Cup and Duchense.

Only Mack and Landy were part of their original core. Rantanen, Kadri and Makar became their current core after they retooled.

Still a good example why you don't free up cap space with core players to bank on filling it up with ufas

 

[Beaumaris]

Team game. When the team loses, it doesn't mean all the players played poorly.