Are Zetterberg/Alfreddsson Hall of Famers?

[Holymakinaw]

Alfie wore a letter (ie leadership role) and also noticeably outperformed Sundin in 06. Nothing about Sundins olympics was more impressive than Alfies, no matter the difference in letter on their jerseys. Being the better player and having an A is better than what Sundin did

LOL. Sundin was always a MUCH better player than Alfie.

Way more goals......more assists.......more points.........more international gold medals.........a better "best season"......it's not even close.

 

[SotasicA]

Neither belongs, imo. The Hall is already way too diluted, no need to add more pity cases.

 

[joe dirte]

LOL. Sundin was always a MUCH better player than Alfie.

Way more goals......more assists.......more points.........more international gold medals.........a better "best season"......it's not even close.

Ill never understand why they subject themselves to this.

Why not use players like dino ciccarelli and mark recchi as benchmarks? It makes much more sense to use a player more his caliber if you want to make a case.

 

[Star Ocean]

Neither belongs, imo. The Hall is already way too diluted, no need to add more pity cases.

Conn Smythe winner is pity case? Z was only the second european ever winning it .

 

[TS Quint]

All those people who think Zetterberg isn’t HOF worthy have no clue. 2009 Zetterberg DOMINATED Crosby in the final. Datsyuk playing on one leg cost the Wings that Cup.

 

[Holymakinaw]

Ill never understand why they subject themselves to this.

Why not use players like dino ciccarelli and mark recchi as benchmarks?

Or maybe Valtteri Filppula.

 

[Artorius Horus T]

Astounds that me that people/media lavish so much praise on a guy like Toews at his best, but clearly superior two way players like Alfredsson and Zetterberg who were arguably better defensively and wayyy better offensively while being wayyy more consistent get so much push back.

The hall has a Canadian/ North American bias, all there is to it.

You say Alfredsson and Zetterberg were both better two-way players what Jonathan Toews?

 

[JaegerDice]

Astounds that me that people/media lavish so much praise on a guy like Toews at his best, but clearly superior two way players like Alfredsson and Zetterberg who were arguably better defensively and wayyy better offensively while being wayyy more consistent get so much push back.

The hall has a Canadian/ North American bias, all there is to it.

Toews has more hardware, even if you take the team awards out of the picture. Selke, Conn Smythe, Best Forward at the Olympics. Add the team awards in, which the HHOF does take into account, and it's not particularly close as far as trophy cases.

And just to nip the 'Well Darren McCarty has 4 cups so I guess he should get in' type arguments in the bud, there's a distinct difference between being a 4th liner on 4 cup winning teams, and playing arguably the most important position on 4 cup winners and an olympian.

I mean hell, his Conn Smythe year, he had more points and a better PPG than Zetterberg during Z's Conn Smythe year. I think Zetterberg was more impressive in his Conn Smythe run by the eye-test, but by the numbers, Toews was at least equal, if not better.

I think Zetterberg should get in, and I said I considered him the best player in the league in 2008 in this very thread. But there's plenty of argument that for as good as Zetterberg was at his peak, Toews' peak was even better.

Personally, I think they're both HHOFers and very comparable players.

 

[newfy]

LOL. Sundin was always a MUCH better player than Alfie.

Way more goals......more assists.......more points.........more international gold medals.........a better "best season"......it's not even close.

Cool. I didnt say otherwise. I said you cant win "captain" of a gold medal team. They both won one olympic gold, Sundin wore the C but Alfie wore an A and had a clearly better tournament. Sundin wasnt a" MUCH better player than Alfie" in that tournament which also happened to be the biggest thing either of them ever won.

I'm not even a big Alfie fan. Any unbiased person can see they both have pretty comparable resumes. Your whole argument in the last post was based on Alfie not captaining teams internationally like Sundin, instead he was an alternate captain and outperformed Sundin at the biggest tournament they played in. It was a weak argument.

As for what you've said in this post, its not really true either to be honest. Sundins best season he finished fourth in points and he has another season in the top 10 at 7th place which is his only season in the top 10 in points per game with a tenth place point per game finish. Alfredsson on the other hand has 3 top ten point finishes at 4th, 7th and 9th where he finished 9th, 3rd and 4th in points per game. So Sundins single tenth place in points per game is up against a 3rd, 4th and 9th place finish for Alfie. Alfies best season he finished 5th in hart trophy voting vs Sundin finishing at 8th and they both have a Messier leadership award.

So if anything at all I would say its very close between the two but pretty much impossible to make an argument for Sundin at his best being better. I think theyre pretty comparable overall and anyone trying to spin it one way or the other is pretty ridiculous. How you can look at those numbers and say Sundin had a better best season so confidently kinda shows how much logic is going into your posts vs personal bias though.

 

[Holymakinaw]

As for what you've said in this post, its not really true either to be honest. Sundins best season he finished fourth in points and he has another season in the top 10 at 7th place which is his only season in the top 10 in points per game with a tenth place point per game finish. Alfredsson on the other hand has 3 top ten point finishes at 4th, 7th and 9th where he finished 9th, 3rd and 4th in points per game. So Sundins single tenth place in points per game is up against a 3rd, 4th and 9th place finish for Alfie. Alfies best season he finished 5th in hart trophy voting vs Sundin finishing at 8th and they both have a Messier leadership award.

So if anything at all I would say its very close between the two but pretty much impossible to make an argument for Sundin at his best being better. I think theyre pretty comparable overall and anyone trying to spin it one way or the other is pretty ridiculous. How you can look at those numbers and say Sundin had a better best season so confidently kinda shows how much logic is going into your posts vs personal bias though.

Nah.

Sundin's best season was a 47 goal/114 point season. Alfie's best season was a 43 goal/103 point season.

Not an argument or anything. Just stating a simple fact. Sundin's best was better.

 

[Hockey Outsider]

Nah.

Sundin's best season was a 47 goal/114 point season. Alfie's best season was a 43 goal/103 point season.

Not an argument or anything. Just stating a simple fact. Sundin's best was better.

To make sure everyone understands:

In the seasons you're comparing, Sundin (1993) finished out of the top ten in scoring, and got zero votes for the Hart or Selke. Alfredsson (2006) placed 4th in scoring, 4th for the Selke, and 5th for the Hart.

Yet Sundin had the better season?

 

[Hockeyholic]

To make sure everyone understands:

In the seasons you're comparing, Sundin (1993) finished out of the top ten in scoring, and got zero votes for the Hart or Selke. Alfredsson (2006) placed 4th in scoring, 4th for the Selke, and 5th for the Hart.

Yet Sundin had the better season?

Sundin's competition was much tougher.

 

[Korpse]

Sundin's competition was much tougher.

That's an interesting argument as to why scoring was much higher in 1993 than 2006.

 

[Holymakinaw]

To make sure everyone understands:

In the seasons you're comparing, Sundin (1993) finished out of the top ten in scoring, and got zero votes for the Hart or Selke. Alfredsson (2006) placed 4th in scoring, 4th for the Selke, and 5th for the Hart.

Yet Sundin had the better season?

Yes, Sundin's best season was better than Alfredsson's. We're not comparing them to OTHER players. We're comparing them to each other. Sundin simply wins there. FACT.

 

[OKR]

They both belong, their primes were all-time great type, both won everything there is to win on international stage and were crucial to their teams in everything they’ve won.

 

[Hockey Outsider]

Yes, Sundin's best season was better than Alfredsson's. We're not comparing them to OTHER players. We're comparing them to each other. Sundin simply wins there. FACT.

No, you're doubling down on a position that's plainly wrong.

1993 was a much higher scoring season than 2006. That boosted everyone's numbers (including Sundin's). There were 21 players with 100 points in 1993, and only 7 in 2006. Do you not see a difference there? There were 18% more goals per game in 1993 compared to 2006 - a much bigger gap than the difference between their production, and that's before we even recognize that Alfredsson was nearly a Selke finalist.

Your argument is obviously wrong. Otherwise I suppose your conclusion is Dennis Maruk (136 points in 1982), Pierre Turgeon (132 points in 1993) and Kent Nilson (131 points in 1981) all had better offensive peaks than Crosby, Oveckhkin, Malkin, McDavid and Kane?

 

[Holymakinaw]

No, you're doubling down on a position that's plainly wrong.

1993 was a much higher scoring season than 2006. That boosted everyone's numbers (including Sundin's). There were 21 players with 100 points in 1993, and only 7 in 2006. Do you not see a difference there? There were 18% more goals per game in 1993 compared to 2006 - a much bigger gap than the difference between their production, and that's before we even recognize that Alfredsson was nearly a Selke finalist.

Your argument is obviously wrong. Otherwise I suppose your conclusion is Dennis Maruk (136 points in 1982), Pierre Turgeon (132 points in 1993) and Kent Nilson (131 points in 1981) all had better offensive peaks than Crosby, Oveckhkin, Malkin, McDavid and Kane?

Nah.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Alfredsson more Olympics than Sundin, Alfie then better player using Maks logic.

 

[SuperScript29]

You say Alfredsson and Zetterberg were both better two-way players what Jonathan Toews?

Zetterberg at his best? Yes.

 

[Erik Alfredsson]

Alfredsson more Olympics than Sundin, Alfie then better player using Maks logic.

He doesn't have logic, he clearly enjoys getting schooled by more knowledgeable posters, don't know why he keeps coming back for more. I've seen some weird hobbies, but repeatedly getting your ass handed to you in online arguments is up there.