Are Zetterberg/Alfreddsson Hall of Famers?

[newfy]

Alfredsson, Hossa, and Zetterberg were all very good players compared to their peers. They were never really among the best in the league though. Zetterberg was really never the best player on his team, neither was Hossa on several teams he was a part of, and Afredsson was at time.

But what puts them in that upper tier of players? What specifically qualifies them for the hall? I can't come up with much other than consistency at a very good level which shouldn't be enough imo.

Zetterberg at his best was a top 5-10 player in the league. Saying he was never the best on his team while hes on a team with a top 3-5 dman of all time and a top 3 player at his best shouldnt be a knock on him at all. Zetterberg was the captain of an original 6 team and Sweden at the olympic games, has a Conn Smythe over a prime Datsyuk and Lidstrom.

But even if he was just consistently at a very good level, thats all thats needed to get into the hall. You cant magically change the standard to how you think it should be. Do you really think Zetterberg did less than Kevin Lowe or Hossa with is career? Absolutely not and they both just got in. Joe Nieuwendyk? Glenn Anderson? Hell even someone like Cam Neely?

You actually think all those guys were better than Zetterberg. Wanna talk about Zetterberg being the best player on his team but Anderson was at best maybe 6th or 7th and hes still in. Based on the standards of the hall, Zetterberg will absolutely get in

 

[ScaredStreit]

Zetterberg at his best was a top 5-10 player in the league. Saying he was never the best on his team while hes on a team with a top 3-5 dman of all time and a top 3 player at his best shouldnt be a knock on him at all. Zetterberg was the captain of an original 6 team and Sweden at the olympic games, has a Conn Smythe over a prime Datsyuk and Lidstrom.

But even if he was just consistently at a very good level, thats all thats needed to get into the hall. You cant magically change the standard to how you think it should be. Do you really think Zetterberg did less than Kevin Lowe or Hossa with is career? Absolutely not and they both just got in. Joe Nieuwendyk? Glenn Anderson? Hell even someone like Cam Neely?

You actually think all those guys were better than Zetterberg. Wanna talk about Zetterberg being the best player on his team but Anderson was at best maybe 6th or 7th and hes still in. Based on the standards of the hall, Zetterberg will absolutely get in

My statement was whether I think they should get in not whether I think they will. Those are two completely different concepts.

I forgot about Lidstrom tbh and was referring to Datsyuk > Zetterberg.

I don't think Zetterberg did less than Lowe or Hossa-but I also don't think they should be in either.

 

[Hisch13r]

Alfredsson yes

Zetterberg no

 

[bobholly39]

Alfredsson is only in the topic because he's the face of Ottawa for so long...if he played on 4-5 different teams throughout his career he wouldn't be in the conversation.

Zetterberg is borderline for me, but I'm a small room type of a guy so I'd pass on him as well.

They should be in the same tier as Turgeon imo (which is where Hossa should also be). Either one of the best not in or one of the worst in.

Id agree they're borderline. I think Alfredsson being the face of a franchise for so long is absolutely a positive for him though. It is the hall of fame after all and i think that matters.
For Zetterberg - i think his playoff runs particularly in 2008 and 2009 are a fantastic element to bring him over the edge.

Id agree that you could lump all 4 players (including Hossa and Turgeon) in roughly the same tier. What helps Hossa is his accomplishments (cups and playoffs) - even though in terms of ability he may be very slightly behind other 3.

Turgeon - although he may be the most talented of the bunch - lacks that special something the other 3 have. He's not the face of any franchise, he doesnt have a smythe or 2 such worthy runs - and isnt a very important contributor to multiple cups like Hossa. His offensive numbers are really special - but they occured in such ridiculously high scoring seasons that they dont stand out all that much vs his peers.

I think both Alfredsson and Zetterberg will get in

 

[bert]

Alfredsson, Hossa, and Zetterberg were all very good players compared to their peers. They were never really among the best in the league though. Zetterberg was really never the best player on his team, neither was Hossa on several teams he was a part of, and Afredsson was at time.

But what puts them in that upper tier of players? What specifically qualifies them for the hall? I can't come up with much other than consistency at a very good level which shouldn't be enough imo.

Literally a long post showing they were some of the best in the league in this thread. Its also outlines and shows how they are better than players that are already in. Did you not even read it?.......

 

[Agent Zuuuub]

Astounds that me that people/media lavish so much praise on a guy like Toews at his best, but clearly superior two way players like Alfredsson and Zetterberg who were arguably better defensively and wayyy better offensively while being wayyy more consistent get so much push back.

The hall has a Canadian/ North American bias, all there is to it.

 

[joe dirte]

Astounds that me that people/media lavish so much praise on a guy like Toews at his best, but clearly superior two way players like Alfredsson and Zetterberg who were arguably better defensively and wayyy better offensively while being wayyy more consistent get so much push back.

The hall has a Canadian/ North American bias, all there is to it.

Toews for a time was a far better two way player than both.

 

[ManwithNoIdentity]

Toews for a time was a far better two way player than both.

You’re clearly out to lunch

 

[joe dirte]

You’re clearly out to lunch

Not really. At his best he was a ppg selke winner. In players polls at the time he was often cited as the hardest player in the league to play against. He was completely clutch and a hell of a player. He declined a little and after that hockey fans turned him into a hoke, but for a few years he was absolutely the best 2 way player in the league.

 

[Syckle78]

Not really. At his best he was a ppg selke winner. In players polls at the time he was often cited as the hardest player in the league to play against. He was completely clutch and a hell of a player. He declined a little and after that hockey fans turned him into a hoke, but for a few years he was absolutely the best 2 way player in the league.

He was never a better two way player than Datsyuk then Bergeron took the mantle.

 

[Luck 6]

The hall of fame is a joke... So why not, let them in, they’re more deserving of some that are in.

 

[Korpse]

Consider the possibility that Alfredsson is simply not worthy for the HHOF, whereas Sundin was.

Sundin is the highest scoring Swede of all time. Alfie? Several hundred points behind.
Sundin scored way more goals than Alfie in their careers.
Sundin had way more points than Afliie in their careers.
Sundin's top years were better than Alfie's top years.
Sundin captained Team Sweden for 10 years to 4 international gold medals. Alfie played under Mats.
Sundin was voted by the NHL as one of the "greatest 100 players in NHL history", Alfie was not.

It's not some "vendetta" by Leaf fans. Alfie was a good player. Just not a HHOF player.

your justification for alfredsson that he hasn’t won anything. What has Sundin won?

 

[Korpse]

Toews for a time was a far better two way player than both.

You kinda just proved his point.

 

[Agent Zuuuub]

Not really. At his best he was a ppg selke winner. In players polls at the time he was often cited as the hardest player in the league to play against. He was completely clutch and a hell of a player. He declined a little and after that hockey fans turned him into a hoke, but for a few years he was absolutely the best 2 way player in the league.

Zetterberg and Alfredsson were 90/100 point selke caliber players.

 

[Holymakinaw]

your justification for alfredsson that he hasn’t won anything. What has Sundin won?

I didn't bring Sundin up......someone else did.

But since you asked what Sundin won. He won entry into the HHOF for all the things I listed.

Alfie was denied for what should be obvious reasons.

 

[joe dirte]

Zetterberg and Alfredsson were 90/100 point selke caliber players.

I see. So how many selkes between the two of them then?

 

[Korpse]

I didn't bring Sundin up......someone else did.

But since you asked what Sundin won. He won entry into the HHOF for all the things I listed.

Alfie was denied for what should be obvious reasons.

No. I’m referring to the very first response. The one where you said Alfredsson was a no because he hasn’t won anything. Using the same justification Sundin shouldn’t be in the HOF either. I assume you agree given your previous stance.

 

[Agent Zuuuub]

I see. So how many selkes between the two of them then?

yea because winning an award that comes down so much to the personal bias of writers is definitive proof of who the best defensive player is.

 

[ahmon]

both should be in with current standard.

I think Zetterberg should be in regardless. Not only complete 2 way high end player, but also performed well in the playoffs.

 

[wetcoast]

Consider the possibility that Alfredsson is simply not worthy for the HHOF, whereas Sundin was.

Sundin is the highest scoring Swede of all time. Alfie? Several hundred points behind.
Sundin scored way more goals than Alfie in their careers.
Sundin had way more points than Afliie in their careers.
Sundin's top years were better than Alfie's top years.
Sundin captained Team Sweden for 10 years to 4 international gold medals. Alfie played under Mats.
Sundin was voted by the NHL as one of the "greatest 100 players in NHL history", Alfie was not.

It's not some "vendetta" by Leaf fans. Alfie was a good player. Just not a HHOF player.

You had me until the end, Alfie is a HHOF player or maybe he becomes the post lockout version of Rick Middleton?

 

[Holymakinaw]

No. I’m referring to the very first response. The one where you said Alfredsson was a no because he hasn’t won anything. Using the same justification Sundin shouldn’t be in the HOF either. I assume you agree given your previous stance.

Nah, I already showed WHY Sundin deserved to get in.......highest scoring Swede ever, captained Sweden to 4 golds, 564 goals, list of 100 greatest NHLers, etc., etc.

I'm not actually any big Sundin fan. But he "won" those things, compared to other Swedes, and they let him in, first ballot. If you don't agree, take it up with the HHOF.

 

[Korpse]

Nah, I already showed WHY Sundin deserved to get in.......highest scoring Swede ever, captained Sweden to 4 golds, 564 goals, list of 100 greatest NHLers, etc., etc.

I'm not actually any big Sundin fan. But he "won" those things, compared to other Swedes, and they let him in, first ballot. If you don't agree, take it up with the HHOF.

I’m just applying your standard. Has wont anything shouldn’t be in.

 

[Thenameless]

I went no/no, with Zetterberg being on the borderline. I hear the arguments about Kevin Lowe and other weak inductees getting in, but I'm not into watering down the Hall of Fame.

I prefer Cooperstown's (baseball's) more stringent standards. When you look at who's in their Hall of Fame, there are no questionable inductees. In fact the converse is true. You end up feeling sorry for certain guys that were so good, that they probably should be in, but aren't.

 

[topshelf15]

And even being a "joke" of an organization that's super easy to gain entry into.......they won't let Alfie in.

What does THAT say, I wonder?

But they let in a flake like Sundin on the first go ....Because he is a Leaf lol

 

[Dion TheFluff]

Zetterberg didn't put up amazing numbers in the regular seasons, but was VERY good. And he won a cup and a Conn Smyth. So yes, he should get in for that.

Alfredsson never won anything of note. No HOF for him.

did Sundin ever win anything of note?