BMN
Registered User
- Jun 2, 2021
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Taking @Bixby Snyder at his word, he said "as it is now." The Coyotes aren't in the league now.Absolute nonsense. The Coyotes were not profitable, and they never were.
Taking @Bixby Snyder at his word, he said "as it is now." The Coyotes aren't in the league now.Absolute nonsense. The Coyotes were not profitable, and they never were.
I honestly don't see any "bubble" teams right now. Anyone claiming there is a "bubble" team is doing it on almost complete conjecture.
The Winnipeg thread on this board is pretty thorough. It is pretty much defacto the "bubble" team if there has to be one it because its ownership decided to rattle some chains about its recent attendance (which is still nowhere near putting the franchise in jeopardy given how the league's finances are structured). But I legit think there would have to be 3-5 non-competitive years on the ice combined with another attendance decrease for there to be anything remotely worth worrying about.
What people keep missing, and just dropping Columbus into the conversation is proof of this, is that ownership itself has to want to move/sell before anything even gets put on the table. And while there's no doubt Blue Jackets' ownership grumbled about the operations of the team (AKA how it was going on the ice) this year, I've never heard any serious interest from them to sell/move. And why would they? The city gov't loves them.
They're not. They averaged over 17,000 this season and the product has been atrocious pretty much the entire quarter century of the CBJ's existence.Why would Columbus leave?
It just seems like the poster is throwing things at the wall.They're not. They averaged over 17,000 this season and the product has been atrocious pretty much the entire quarter century of the CBJ's existence.
Your username would make sense with a post like this.With the Panthers future secured for at least the next 3-4 seasons, the Winnipeg Jets are probably the most "bubble" team in the league. It's them and Columbus at this point.
Columbus is small market despite having more people than Seattle, Nashville, Denver, Boston, Detroit and Vegas? Also bigger than Atlanta…So much has to go right for such a tiny market to remain viable, and even if they do, there's voices in the league that are going to state the obvious: however much money you make in tiny Winnipeg or Columbus,, there's more money to be made for the league in one if the big US cities.
I've actually wondered if the Jackets might move to Atlanta at some point. The hilarious irony of a team named after Union troops marching to Atlanta aside, it would be a solid move from a revenue sharing standpoint.
Metro, not within city limits.Columbus is small market despite having more people than Seattle, Nashville, Denver, Boston, Detroit and Vegas? Also bigger than Atlanta…
Largest cities in the United States by population
Ballotpedia: The Encyclopedia of American Politicsballotpedia.org
2.18 million - Columbus Metro area is more populated than Nashville, San Jose, Raleigh, SLC, Buffalo. Cbus has 1.3 million more people than Winnipeg and we are grouping them together? @SImpeltonMetro, not within city limits.
...which is honestly boring! What else are we going to talk about on the BoH???
This exactly what I’m talking about when I go after Canadian fans . Literally right after they when the cup people are calling for them to move.
Metro, not within city limits.
Anyways, the Panthers will only have 'proven' they've 'made it' if they are able to sustain fan interest after reverting to their losing ways. It's inevitable they will, sooner or later; all teams, including those found in 'traditional' hockey markets follow a boom-and-bust cycle. Any team can sustain interest when they're winning, especially if it culminates in a championship. If at some point they start missing the playoffs again and can maintain interest after, say, four or five consecutive seasons out of the playoffs, then we'll know they've 'made it.'
Combined statistical area is a better metric than metro area since some metros are split up in smaller chunks. San Jose-SF-Oakland is 9M, SLC-Provo-Orem is 2.8M, Columbus-Marion-Zanesville is at 2.6M, Raleigh-Durham-Cary is at 2.4M, Nashville-Davidson is at 2.4M.2.18 million - Columbus Metro area is more populated than Nashville, San Jose, Raleigh, SLC, Buffalo. Cbus has 1.3 million more people than Winnipeg and we are grouping them together? @SImpelton
Not to be pedantic but I don’t get what the reasoning is for grouping those cities together? For instance, it’s quicker to get to Dayton than Marian from Columbus. Obviously Dayton is a much larger city too. I commuted from Dayton to Columbus right out of college (1 hour). Went to school in Athens OH (counting towards that 2.6M) which is an hour and a half away… I don’t get it.Combined statistical area is a better metric than metro area since some metros are split up in smaller chunks. San Jose-SF-Oakland is 9M, SLC-Provo-Orem is 2.8M, Columbus-Marion-Zanesville is at 2.6M
It's not nonsense at all, with the situation in Arizona taken care of the NHL is in position where all it's franchises are stable and healthy. The reason the Coyotes moved is not because of negative revenue but because of not having an appropriate building to play in. I don't have the exact numbers but most of the NHL's revenues are from television and sponsorships. While ticket sales are still important it's not the gate driven league as it once was.Absolute nonsense. The Coyotes were not profitable, and they never were.
You're right, it can take a long time. The Red Wings were near-perennial contenders for close to 30 years before their current streak of non-playoff seasons happened. There are other teams currently in the midst of multiple seasons-long streaks without the playoffs after having won a cup, whether recently or not; Chicago, Philadelphia, Anaheim, and Montreal come to mind. It may take a while but it will happen eventually to the Panthers, as it happens to all teams who sustain success. When it happens, not if, one hopes the Panthers will continue to experience off-ice success, having built up a solid fan base through their successful years. If they do, then we'll know they've 'made it.'As of recent, Carolina is the only one that shows what happens when you completely fall off a few years after winning a cup and only make the playoffs once in 13 years. Compareable markets such as Tampa, Nashville, Dallas and Vegas have all been successful on ice during their times and we've never seen an outcome in which those teams are poor for a long period of time..
Outlier was Arizona, but outside of the late 90s and 2010-2012 they were never successful. They could have been another Vegas or Dallas had they'd been successful for let's say 20 of the 27 years there
Low upside relative to one of the bigger urban markets.Why would Columbus leave?
Low upside relative to one of the bigger urban markets.
Columbus is making money but IIRC isn't regularly spending to the cap because it can't. I think Bettman wants it so that it's at least conceivable for any NHL team to spend to the cap at any given time, so they can keep their core and there aren't "feeder teams" that exist only to develop talent for other clubs to poach.
The Jackets are definitely one such "feeder team." They struggle to retain their talent and can't sustain a strong core which brings down the average of the league in terms of competitiveness..
If Columbus is the weakest team the league has, they're not doing too bad, they're roughly analogous to teams like the Kansas City Royals or Tampa Bay Rays in MLB, but it's not hard to imagine that the Jackets could do better for themselves in a more economically powerful market such as Atlanta.
Well it's not just gate revenue (people overestimate the significance of gate revenue in the modern economy)
(https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/23...eams-finances-and-plan-for-expanding-revenue/)Based on available ticket information, industry sources and former Lightning staffers, this is the general range of revenue that comes annually from each major source, as of the 2019-20 season:
Tickets: $60 million
Suite sales: $15 million
Sponsors: $30 million
Local TV deal (Sinclair/Fox Sports Sun): $15 million
National TV deal: $15-20 million
Food and beverage: $10 million
Merchandise: $5 million
At this point the Canes have been in Raleigh longer than they had been in HartfordThey'll be in good hands for 5 years or so. They have Tkachuk, Barkov, Bob, Forsling, etc under contract for awhile. New practice facility, have been building towards contender, have created a rivalry with Tampa, etc. All of these things are attractive to potential new customers. Being in Florida also has perks.
Carolinas problem was after 2006, only making one playoff appearance for the next 13 years. As such, apathy set in and the ignorant know-nothings started spewing their bullshit about Quebec. 2006 was only year 6 in being in Raleigh, still new-ish. The Panthers just completed year 30 and now have a generation of fans.
Lest we forget the near decade of abysmal Blackhawks attendance from 2000-2009.Exactly.
This myth that only southern teams draw flies when they put out bad product has to stop.
Columbus just averaged 93 percent attendance while being a lottery team. The team hasnt lost money since 2013.With the Panthers future secured for at least the next 3-4 seasons, the Winnipeg Jets are probably the most "bubble" team in the league. It's them and Columbus at this point.
So much has to go right for such a tiny market to remain viable, and even if they do, there's voices in the league that are going to state the obvious: however much money you make in tiny Winnipeg or Columbus,, there's more money to be made for the league in one if the big US cities.
I've actually wondered if the Jackets might move to Atlanta at some point. The hilarious irony of a team named after Union troops marching to Atlanta aside, it would be a solid move from a revenue sharing standpoint.
If the Jets went to San Diego they wouldn't even have to change their name, it's a center of naval aviation and IIRC multiple aircraft carriers call the naval base there, home.