OT: Any Video evidence of refs jobbing Leafs in this thread plz.

[willmma]

If you pause you can see his stick between his feet. Did it create him going down? No I dont think it did but if your stick is there and the guys feet slide out it's probably getting called. You would be begging for a call if it was the other way.

The stick was never between the feet. Hughes(?) was turning and his feet kicked Holl's stick.


That said, if you look closer to the net Bo Hovart looks like he tripped a leaf right there with his leg.

 

[Dekes For Days]

This call seems fine.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

I don't minimize every crap call. I minimize the ones that are either legit or not egregious, because there are more than enough which are egregious. You realize that if you complain about the legit calls, they start calling the BS ones.

Stick in feet is a penalty every time, just like a slash in the hands. Doesn't matter if he stepped on it, turned on it, or it accidently went in the skate blade. A lot of it is incidental, but at least they are consistent about calling it. Consistency is what is important.

The Simmonds hit was also dangerous, but likely not called because Hughes turned. We've seen that called before though.

The Marner hit should not have been called. They let up a lot even though it was a hit in the numbers. They are not going to call every hit to the numbers... And they should only call the ones which are actually dangerous, like the one on Kerfoot.

Yeah Hughes did turn. Yes the trip on Mikheyev was real. Haha it was a F****** diving straight arm with the game on the line. You went right in to the gif of Kerfoot being demolished straight from behind and questioned why Simmonds got off the hook. Seems to be straight up going for Leafs to me. Every comment. Are you really a Leaf fan. Seems kind of peculiarities taking place. Ha

 

[Wafflewhipper]

This call seems fine.

Thats a weak call too. Coach want your stick down he turned in to it. Ahh still not a call we would get

 

[Dekes For Days]

Ahh still not a call we would get

I mean, that's probably true, but that's an issue with inconsistency, not so much the call itself.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

Oh good, we've become more like Habs fans.

I've been posting here for years and years and have a track record of never really criticizing refs. I thought the calls were often inconsistent.... but consistently inconsistent to every team, which balanced out in the end.

But I've changed my mind about this recently.

It first started with the indisputable evidence out there about game management. There's no debate any longer. The evidence is in. The refs game manage. There are all those charts that show teams that commit very few penalties get rewarded very few pp's, and vice versa. It's a fact. Still no bias against any specific team. But a fact.

And recently some articles brought up some very interesting points.

The leafs commit so few real penalties, that it makes game management (that we all unanimously agree is a real thing) very difficult for the refs. For example, lets say the opposing team commits two real penalties and the leafs get two PP's in the first. Let's say they score on one. Now the game management begins. The refs DESPERATELY want to give the next penalty to the leafs. Not because they are biased against the leafs, but because it's how game management works. But the leafs very VERY rarely commit penalties. So all of a sudden the refs start allowing the opposing team to get away with penalty after penalty, all for the sake of game management. They're desperate to give the next call to the leafs. But the leafs simply don't commit any penalty. So the opposing team is allowed to get away with more. And more. And more. So then we get to situations where a leaf is crossed checked from behind head first into the boards, no call. And then they literally give the leafs a phantom penalty moments later for literally nothing. On a long timeline, it starts to add up that other teams can routinely get away with outrageous penalties against the leafs, but the leafs get called on the tiniest of indiscretions.

There are numerous articles out there about this over the past few weeks. None of them argue there is a direct bias against the leafs or any other team in particular. But they argue that the leafs play a style that is a perfect storm for getting the short end of the stick when it comes to game management.

 

[Marshy]

I've been posting here for years and years and have a track record of never really criticizing refs. I thought the calls were often inconsistent.... but consistently inconsistent to every team, which balanced out in the end.

But I've changed my mind about this recently.

It first started with the indisputable evidence out there about game management. There's no debate any longer. The evidence is in. The refs game manage. There are all those charts that show teams that commit very few penalties get rewarded very few pp's, and vice versa. It's a fact. Still no bias against any specific team. But a fact.

And recently some articles brought up some very interesting points.

The leafs commit so few real penalties, that it makes game management (that we all unanimously agree is a real thing) very difficult for the refs. For example, lets say the opposing team commits two real penalties and the leafs get two PP's in the first. Let's say they score on one. Now the game management begins. The refs DESPERATELY want to give the next penalty to the leafs. Not because they are biased against the leafs, but because it's how game management works. But the leafs very VERY rarely commit penalties. So all of a sudden the refs start allowing the opposing team to get away with penalty after penalty, all for the sake of game management. They're desperate to give the next call to the leafs. But the leafs simply don't commit any penalty. So the opposing team is allowed to get away with more. And more. And more. So then we get to situations where a leaf is crossed checked from behind head first into the boards, no call. And then they literally give the leafs a phantom penalty moments later for literally nothing. On a long timeline, it starts to add up that other teams can routinely get away with outrageous penalties against the leafs, but the leafs get called on the tiniest of indiscretions.

There are numerous articles out there about this over the past few weeks. None of them argue there is a direct bias against the leafs or any other team in particular. But they argue that the leafs play a style that is a perfect storm for getting the short end of the stick when it comes to game management.

Simple. Take more penalties. Not for the sake of it...but the kind that you will get by trying to get the puck back. Eh you might even get away with some. The ones you get called on....try to kill as many as you can. Make hay when the even up (game management) calls come.....oh they'll be coming. Who benefits the most here? The one with the top 3 PP in the league...that's who. Just be league average (or better) on the PK and Bob's your uncle.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

I mean, that's probably true, but that's an issue with inconsistency, not so much the call itself.

It’s kind of funny the outing of reffing around the league since this thread was going ha. The league’s supervisor of refereeing and the refs have been called out hard since this thread was going. Karma is real ha. The stick in the skate trip doesn’t have much bearing on the bigger picture of this thread. It doesn’t remove the other blatant ignored calls against us. They are a relevant issue still.

It’s actually been getting traction how seriously bad the reffing is after we were all on it here. I’ll still be watching games closely for refs jobbing us or putting our players at risk when it is obvious. The holl trip was incidental. No biggie. You can put your stick in the skates.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

Simple. Take more penalties. Not for the sake of it...but the kind that you will get by trying to get the puck back. Eh you might even get away with some. The ones you get called on....try to kill as many as you can. Make hay when the even up (game management) calls come.....oh they'll be coming. Who benefits the most here? The one with the top 3 PP in the league...that's who. Just be league average (or better) on the PK and Bob's your uncle.

That article you posted backs up your words here. Crazy times in the Nhl and fixed games. What a slap in the face to integrity for me. It’s not real but we will make sure we even it out. I’m not totally in agreement with that article and the way it leads people to believe that fixed games are a “is what it is” type deal. Is what it is to me is negligent behaviour accepted as the normal because there is to much incompetence and underhanded workings to tackle as the perception. Control freaks love people that say ohh well it is what it is. People that give me that answer Don’t like it when i say thats what mice say,not men lol

edit: i added more i am not sure you agree with while you were giving the post a like Marshy.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

Why Toronto's penalty complaints are legitimate, and symptoms of a league-wide problem • The Faceoff Circle


This is an excellent article I think it's changed my mind.

The Leafs aren't getting jobbed intentionally by the refs. Refs are trying to create a net-zero advantage to keep games close and so as not to appear biased against one team. Teams (like the Leafs) who've been a skilled clean, possession type team will be "punished" when playing undisciplined and less skilled teams ( who will benefit from being allowed to cheat more because refs won't have a lopsided number of calls against one team in a game - AKA Game Management).

The answer for a skilled team (aka the Leafs)? Take more liberties and don't worry about staying out of the box. Just enjoy the even up calls because oh they're coming. Most importantly - be special teams kings. The more north of 100 they can be (PP +PK %) --> the more penalties they SHOULD be taking.

When the system rewards cheaters. Be the best cheater you can be.

Oh and the PP is lethal eh? Just need to bump up the PK % a bit.

Kinda like da CBA CAP same principal

 

[Wafflewhipper]

Simple. Take more penalties. Not for the sake of it...but the kind that you will get by trying to get the puck back. Eh you might even get away with some. The ones you get called on....try to kill as many as you can. Make hay when the even up (game management) calls come.....oh they'll be coming. Who benefits the most here? The one with the top 3 PP in the league...that's who. Just be league average (or better) on the PK and Bob's your uncle.

I’m going to keep this thread going until we stop getting a raw deal. It almost seems like it has already leaked out there. Does it seem like that.... I don’t know. Refs are taking a beating from top to bottom since we got this going.

 

[Marshy]

I’m going to keep this thread going until we stop getting a raw deal. It almost seems like it has already leaked out there. Does it seem like that.... I don’t know. Refs are taking a beating from top to bottom since we got this going.

Mirtle sent out a tweet last week asking for questions for his LeafReport Podcast. I asked him about the officiating and how it has affected the Leafs specifically this season. I didn't get an acknowledgement on the question. I think the media is trying to be very careful when it comes to bias in officiating. Rogers owns the Canadian rights to the NHL. I know the Athletic isn't as mainstream as Rogers and Bell subsidiaries in the media but they still play by the same rules. Placate the league. Biting the hand that feeds you is bad for business.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

If Matthews get cross checked in the Paint tomorrow he should turn around and lay his own punch in the face to whoever does it.

 

[Papi 4 Hart]

Can anyone find the clip of Hyman taking a bad fall. I thought it looked like a bit of a slew foot and was a dangerous play. Glad Hyman didnt get hurt.

It would have been in the first 10 minutes of the 3rd period last game.

 

[Marshy]

If Matthews get cross checked in the Paint tomorrow he should turn around and lay his own punch in the face to whoever does it.

This is where JT needs to do captain things. If Matty gets targeted and the refs don't get it under control - JT has to quietly approach the refs and say "Hey, I know you guys are only human...but if some of our guys see Matty getting worked over and nothing is gonna be done about it - it could get vigilante justice out here. Charlie Bronson style. Just a heads up fellas."

 

[Wafflewhipper]

Mirtle sent out a tweet last week asking for questions for his LeafReport Podcast. I asked him about the officiating and how it has affected the Leafs specifically this season. I didn't get an acknowledgement on the question. I think the media is trying to be very careful when it comes to bias in officiating. Rogers owns the Canadian rights to the NHL. I know the Athletic isn't as mainstream as Rogers and Bell subsidiaries in the media but they still play by the same rules. Placate the league. Biting the hand that feeds you is bad for business.

Haha, that seems perfectly par for the course for how people are controlled now. They are puppets for sure. I don’t roll like a softy but don’t blame them i guess. Weak though and they will be the first to assassinate a players character ha.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

This is where JT needs to do captain things. If Matty gets targeted and the refs don't get it under control - JT has to quietly approach the refs and say "Hey, I know you guys are only human...but if some of our guys see Matty getting worked over and nothing is gonna be done about it - it could get vigilante justice out here. Charlie Bronson style. Just a heads up fellas."

Ha yep. These guys are in control they think so they don’t care. I would like to see it without warning. instantly take action against Weber or Chiarot as soon as they start. Lots of ways to grab the attention when you are a meekly operating team that goes completely vicious at the refs and habs players.I’m not so sure the opportunity will arise now. There is lots of talk going on and well deserved about the farce we now know as nhl reffing i would think.
Remembering the words of Keefe earlier before the season started. He said, we would like to see our players step out of their comfort zone for the betterment of team play. That applies nicely to not putting up with any liberties Montreal might feel they can pull off against us.
Hard sledding without Simmonds help. Winning the game and someone else is out injured without response wouldn’t be the best outcome. I want Sabourine in the lineup. Nothing wrong with the way the guy can play. He’s not going to hurt you defensively and if you have to kill a good penalty for him it’s necessary to making him feel a part of things. The team is maturing and the coaching has to be pulling the same rope by putting the protection in the lineup. If he’s in, the refs take notice and the habs take notice. Half the battle won

 

[Wafflewhipper]

I've been posting here for years and years and have a track record of never really criticizing refs. I thought the calls were often inconsistent.... but consistently inconsistent to every team, which balanced out in the end.

But I've changed my mind about this recently.

It first started with the indisputable evidence out there about game management. There's no debate any longer. The evidence is in. The refs game manage. There are all those charts that show teams that commit very few penalties get rewarded very few pp's, and vice versa. It's a fact. Still no bias against any specific team. But a fact.

And recently some articles brought up some very interesting points.

The leafs commit so few real penalties, that it makes game management (that we all unanimously agree is a real thing) very difficult for the refs. For example, lets say the opposing team commits two real penalties and the leafs get two PP's in the first. Let's say they score on one. Now the game management begins. The refs DESPERATELY want to give the next penalty to the leafs. Not because they are biased against the leafs, but because it's how game management works. But the leafs very VERY rarely commit penalties. So all of a sudden the refs start allowing the opposing team to get away with penalty after penalty, all for the sake of game management. They're desperate to give the next call to the leafs. But the leafs simply don't commit any penalty. So the opposing team is allowed to get away with more. And more. And more. So then we get to situations where a leaf is crossed checked from behind head first into the boards, no call. And then they literally give the leafs a phantom penalty moments later for literally nothing. On a long timeline, it starts to add up that other teams can routinely get away with outrageous penalties against the leafs, but the leafs get called on the tiniest of indiscretions.

There are numerous articles out there about this over the past few weeks. None of them argue there is a direct bias against the leafs or any other team in particular. But they argue that the leafs play a style that is a perfect storm for getting the short end of the stick when it comes to game management.

Link a article or two if you could TMW. I would read them. That said, i see it as bias allocation to the Leafs. Inequality that directly effects us that is caused by a decision by the powers that be. They fix games by committee and fairplay and sportsmanship is not supposed to be the whipping boy of fixing games. Thats not a fair trade off for any team to feel the need to conform to

If you're discouraged and angry about the current state of affairs, know that only action will change your place in the grand scheme of things. Know that if you're searching for justice, fairness or recognition and sympathy from the overlords, you're delusional.

Ice a team of animals and wreak havoc lol

 

[Peasy]

How did the ref looking right at them not call that penalty that just happened.

 

[Zybalto]

How did the ref looking right at them not call that penalty that just happened.

No one really knows anymore....

Literally pulled his arm into the air with the stick still hooking it.

 

[A1LeafNation]

Why did Hyman let called for a penalty, the fkn stick was between his legs.

 

[Dave92]

Can't wait to see the NHL refs replaced by A.I.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

Holl got boarded hard and was arguing with the ref last night.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

The announcer in the jets game tonight said, i was going to say the refs missed a to many men call there, but I don’t think they did miss it. Haha. They are calling out the same stuff we were calling out first. Watch games not called properly by negligence and game fixing is wrong. Its just wrong. Its league wide.

Calling this garbage game fixing,game management, is wrong. I want a boarding call called every time. So i see 2 minutes for the tap on a stick and nothing for boarding.

 

[The Missing Piece]

After last night this thread needs a bump. So many game management calls/non calls.