Jacobv2 said:It's just a laundry list of excuses for Kostitsyn, isn't it?
Not enough playing time, bad team, too young, bad linemates, bad coach, injury, illness, etc. etc.
Jacobv2 said:I'll compare his WJC performances to Konstantin Koltsov's stats-wise:
Koltsov- 11 GP, 7 goals, 4 assists, +7 rating, 32 PIM.
Kostitsyn- 24 GP, 6 goals, 5 assists, -18 rating, 8 PIM.
All the other teams were focusing on Koltsov too but he still managed to put up better numbers.
It seems like the only substance Kostitsyn supporters use for reference to his potential are his performances amongst his peers.. When even at that level Kostitsyn has been lackluster.
clefty said:He was talking about the top division. His numbers are correct there; 6 goals, 5 assists, 11 points. Except he played 23 games instead of 24, but thats just a simple honest mistake.
417 TO MTL said:No he wasn't talking about the top division, he was talking about WJC performances, I didn't know division 1 performances couldn't count in this discussion.
clefty said:He was talking about the top division. His numbers are correct there; 6 goals, 5 assists, 11 points. Except he played 23 games instead of 24, but thats just a simple honest mistake.
And even if you are going to include Kostitsyn's lower division points, then at least do the same for Koltsov instead of contriving things to favor your argument. Counting lower division tournaments, thats another 12 points for Koltsov in 10 games.
clefty said:He obviously was seeing as those are the numbers he gave about both players. He didn't count Kostitsyn's OR Koltsov's lower division numbers.
417 TO MTL said:
He listed WJC's peformances...I did the same thing, I didn't contrive anything to favor my argument, if you ask me to list his stats for his entire WJC's, that's what i'm going to do, those are his stats...
And according to Eurohockey.net...
Koltsov played 1 year in 2000 at the division 1 level, and he recorded 4pts in 5 games...
What's the point of this anyways, are we really discussing whether or no Koltsov is better then Kostitsyn?
That's ridiculous
Well I guess that means he contrived things to fit his argument...when I came back to write that Kostitsyn had actually played 28 games and recorded 21 pts, I assumed Koltsov's stats posted by that poster, were correct...I didn't bother to look him up, nor should I have to.
Jacobv2 said:I didn't bring up Pool B stats because they're moot. The discussion was about real competition in the top tier, not Denmark or Japan. This is my entire point about Kostitsyn, everything about him is intangible, it's in the air, there is no concrete track record for success at any meaningful level of hockey.
You can tell me about Kostitsyn's skills but you're preaching to the choir. I know he's got an awesome shot, I know he's a decent skater with real nice balance.
The comparison is valid because the excuse was brought up that Kostitsyn didn't put up good numbers in the World Juniors because of the team he played for. My argument was that Konstantin Koltsov, a lesser-hyped prospect at the same age, put up equal or better numbers and hasn't amounted to anything in the NHL.
The comparisons are valid because, really, how many 18 year old Belarussian forwards get picked in the first round of the NHL draft? They're only 4 years apart so we're not comparing different generations here. Both had/have the tag of being high-risk, high-reward selections. Koltsov had more success in the RSL and in the WJCs than Kostitsyn did at ages 17, 18 and 19. Guess what? He's a flop. When I read Habs fans comments about Kostitsyn it really reminds me of myself 2-3 years ago. I made the same excuses for Koltsov.
Jon Prescription said:Kostitsyn is the new Latendresse.