American Players Who Would Make Canada...

[Hockeyholic]

Besides Patrick Kane, are there any US forwards who would make a potential canada team? Pending they were canadian.

Pacciorretty, Wheeler, Abdelkater, Dubinsky, Parise, Pavelski, JVR, Palmeri, Stepan wouldn't have a shot.

Eichel? Kessel? Kesler? Trouba? Suter?

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[Baxterman]

I think much like every other year since 2010 the list is Kane and that's it, maybe a goalie could be the 3rd guy behind Price/Holtby..

 

[jasonr90]

I think Suter makes 2014 as a LHD, if they took Bouwmeester and Hamhuis.

Other than that it's all a crapshoot

 

[JackSlater]

USA's talent is improving, but USA's current strengths don't match what Canada usually values. Kane would make team Canada based on his recent play and playoff reputation, but playmaking wingers aren't a great fit for Canada. For that reason I see Gaudreau as a player who is good enough to make Canada but who would probably not be picked. Same with Kessel. I do think that Matthews would have a good chance if he starts this year well - Matthews has good size and is already a very competent defensive player, so he could get a wing spot. Eichel would be in the same boat if he started the year well. I don't think that any other forwards would be likely. Pavelski is very good and is versatile but his skating is a bit of a weakness and his style of play doesn't suit international hockey that much. Pacioretty is a great skater but he often disappears in the playoffs and international hockey. I think that Parise would have been a Hockey Canada mainstay (fits Canadian style, natural wing, even has a famous Canadian father) but he has slipped too much.

I think that Suter would be a lock. Canada needs LHD, and Suter is great. I think that McDonagh probably makes it too. Jones would have a good shot if he wasn't a RHD.

Quick would have a good chance to make the team given his playoff experience, but goaltending would be difficult to predict. I think that at least Canada would keep Price as the starter and Murray as the heir. Overall, I would guess that five Americans would make it for now - Kane, Matthews, Suter, McDonagh, Quick.

 

[arrbez]

USA's talent is improving, but USA's current strengths don't match what Canada usually values. Kane would make team Canada based on his recent play and playoff reputation, but playmaking wingers aren't a great fit for Canada. For that reason I see Gaudreau as a player who is good enough to make Canada but who would probably not be picked. Same with Kessel. I do think that Matthews would have a good chance if he starts this year well - Matthews has good size and is already a very competent defensive player, so he could get a wing spot. Eichel would be in the same boat if he started the year well. I don't think that any other forwards would be likely. Pavelski is very good and is versatile but his skating is a bit of a weakness and his style of play doesn't suit international hockey that much. Pacioretty is a great skater but he often disappears in the playoffs and international hockey. I think that Parise would have been a Hockey Canada mainstay (fits Canadian style, natural wing, even has a famous Canadian father) but he has slipped too much.

I think that Suter would be a lock. Canada needs LHD, and Suter is great. I think that McDonagh probably makes it too. Jones would have a good shot if he wasn't a RHD.

Quick would have a good chance to make the team given his playoff experience, but goaltending would be difficult to predict. I think that at least Canada would keep Price as the starter and Murray as the heir. Overall, I would guess that five Americans would make it for now - Kane, Matthews, Suter, McDonagh, Quick.

I think Wheeler would have a really strong chance of making the team. He's basically everything Canada looks for in their wingers. 6'5, great skater, responsible, coachable, etc.

 

[Baxterman]

USA's talent is improving, but USA's current strengths don't match what Canada usually values. Kane would make team Canada based on his recent play and playoff reputation, but playmaking wingers aren't a great fit for Canada. For that reason I see Gaudreau as a player who is good enough to make Canada but who would probably not be picked. Same with Kessel. I do think that Matthews would have a good chance if he starts this year well - Matthews has good size and is already a very competent defensive player, so he could get a wing spot. Eichel would be in the same boat if he started the year well. I don't think that any other forwards would be likely. Pavelski is very good and is versatile but his skating is a bit of a weakness and his style of play doesn't suit international hockey that much. Pacioretty is a great skater but he often disappears in the playoffs and international hockey. I think that Parise would have been a Hockey Canada mainstay (fits Canadian style, natural wing, even has a famous Canadian father) but he has slipped too much.

I think that Suter would be a lock. Canada needs LHD, and Suter is great. I think that McDonagh probably makes it too. Jones would have a good shot if he wasn't a RHD.

Quick would have a good chance to make the team given his playoff experience, but goaltending would be difficult to predict. I think that at least Canada would keep Price as the starter and Murray as the heir. Overall, I would guess that five Americans would make it for now - Kane, Matthews, Suter, McDonagh, Quick.

Gaudreau is nowhere near good enough defensively and isn't a guy who buys into what a team is doing overall to be a good fit with what TC usually wants to do. His offense isn't close to good enough to overcome those issues like they are with Kane.

I can't see anyway McDonagh or Suter come close to breaking the top 10, let alone the top 7 defensemen. They just aren't close to good enough.

Matthews was the toughest as I think by next summer he could (but still has a long way to go, his defensive play is nowhere near good enough but he is a Babcock guy so could make it based on that) but right now he hasn't shown close enough to make the team and I imagine they go with someone who has proven more and still just as talented if the team is made right now.

 

[tony d]

Kessel could make it as an extra forward.

 

[JackSlater]

I think Wheeler would have a really strong chance of making the team. He's basically everything Canada looks for in their wingers. 6'5, great skater, responsible, coachable, etc.

I forgot about Wheeler. He is a good stylistic fit, somewhat in the way that Marleau fit so well in 2010 and 2014. I think that Wheeler would need some other players to get injured for him to make the team. He is better than any Canadian RW, but Canada moves a lot of its right handed centres to wing. I imagine that Bergeron would be a lock on Crosby's right wing. Seguin is a lock for right wing, probably on a line with Benn. I think that Carter would make it with as Toews' right wing if he starts the year off decently. An advantage for Carter over Wheeler is also that while Carter has generally been very good internationally, Wheeler has usually disappointed. Stamkos is also a lock if healthy and he would take a right wing spot. Then there is MacKinnon as a potential young guy at RW and even Scheifele, who I suspect would be ahead of Wheeler based on his recent World Championship performances. It's a difficult team to project.

Gaudreau is nowhere near good enough defensively and isn't a guy who buys into what a team is doing overall to be a good fit with what TC usually wants to do. His offense isn't close to good enough to overcome those issues like they are with Kane.

That's why I said that Gaudreau wouldn't make the team. He doesn't fit what Canada usually wants.

I can't see anyway McDonagh or Suter come close to breaking the top 10, let alone the top 7 defensemen. They just aren't close to good enough.

Because Canada in this decade likes to balance RHD and LHD, and both of those guys are better than almost any Canadian LHDs. For instance at the NHL's World Cup Canada took Bouwmeester and Muzzin. Suter and McDonagh are obviously better defencemen than them. I am also assuming that eight defencemen will be taken to the Olympics.

Matthews was the toughest as I think by next summer he could (but still has a long way to go, his defensive play is nowhere near good enough but he is a Babcock guy so could make it based on that) but right now he hasn't shown close enough to make the team and I imagine they go with someone who has proven more and still just as talented if the team is made right now.

What you say is possible, which is why I said that Matthews would need to start the year off well. It's certainly possible that Hockey Canada would ignore Matthews based on age, but it's all speculation. Matthews already being a solid defensive player, playing for Babcock (presumably Canada's coach) and having a lot of experience on big ice are all factors that somewhat mitigate his age.

 

[Baxterman]

That's why I said that Gaudreau wouldn't make the team. He doesn't fit what Canada usually wants.

I was just agreeing with you there.

Because Canada in this decade likes to balance RHD and LHD, and both of those guys are better than almost any Canadian LHDs. For instance at the NHL's World Cup Canada took Bouwmeester and Muzzin. Suter and McDonagh are obviously better defencemen than them. I am also assuming that eight defencemen will be taken to the Olympics.

I like Bouwmeester over those two, especially paired with Pietrangelo but not so much a fan of Muzzin. I guess I need to go over Canada's LHD depth again because if Suter and McDonagh are able to crack the team that is very concerning.

What you say is possible, which is why I said that Matthews would need to start the year off well. It's certainly possible that Hockey Canada would ignore Matthews based on age, but it's all speculation. Matthews already being a solid defensive player, playing for Babcock (presumably Canada's coach) and having a lot of experience on big ice are all factors that somewhat mitigate his age.

I also don't rate Matthews nearly as high as many TO fans and media, or even as high as some other more realistic people. But I do think the Babcock factor is high and would take precedent over talent and fit.

 

[86Habs]

I like Bouwmeester over those two, especially paired with Pietrangelo but not so much a fan of Muzzin. I guess I need to go over Canada's LHD depth again because if Suter and McDonagh are able to crack the team that is very concerning.

My sense is that the LHD/RHD balance that we've seen on Canadian teams since 2010 is something that Babcock is very attuned to and more relevant/important for the international ice surface. I believe at the World Cup last summer, on the NHL sized ice surface, Pietrangelo (RHD) played the left side for most of the games. Bouwmeester replaced an injured Keith, but dressed over Muzzin who was originally named to the team. Bouwmeester and Pietrangelo didn't pair up in the latter part of the tournament. At a hypothetical best-on-best (let's assume it occurs right now, on an NHL-sized ice), Keith and Vlasic would be locks, and Suter would be in the mix with Giordano, Brodie, and McDonagh for the third LHD spot. I'd lean towards Suter, actually, and probably wouldn't really consider Muzzin or Bouwmeester.

With our greater depth at RHD I'd simply move Pietrangelo over, dress our best 7 defencemen, and be done with it. The coaching staff may not even need to dress the third LHD on the depth chart.

 

[jasonr90]

My sense is that the LHD/RHD balance that we've seen on Canadian teams since 2010 is something that Babcock is very attuned to and more relevant/important for the international ice surface. I believe at the World Cup last summer, on the NHL sized ice surface, Pietrangelo (RHD) played the left side for most of the games. Bouwmeester replaced an injured Keith, but dressed over Muzzin who was originally named to the team. Bouwmeester and Pietrangelo didn't pair up in the latter part of the tournament. At a hypothetical best-on-best (let's assume it occurs right now, on an NHL-sized ice), Keith and Vlasic would be locks, and Suter would be in the mix with Giordano, Brodie, and McDonagh for the third LHD spot. I'd lean towards Suter, actually, and probably wouldn't really consider Muzzin or Bouwmeester.

With our greater depth at RHD I'd simply move Pietrangelo over, dress our best 7 defencemen, and be done with it. The coaching staff may not even need to dress the third LHD on the depth chart.[/QUOTE]

That's what they wound up doing at the World Cup anyways, and maybe a different coach would change the whole L/R defense thing anyways

Didn't dress the 7 best though so I agree, Letang and Subban I thought should be there over Bouwmeester and Muzzin

 

[Big Phil]

Funny how this has gone. In the 1980s you'd say no one pretty much. In the 1996 World Cup team there would have been lots. Chelios, Leetch and Suter on defense at least. Richter probably makes Team Canada. Up front Lafontaine makes it. Hull, Leclair, Tkachuk, etc. It stayed like that in 1998 as well but add Modano and remove Lafontaine. 2002 that core was getting older and their young players (Drury, York, etc.) weren't cutting it. So it has been that way for a while except Kane for sure since 2010. He'd have made Team Canada in 2010, maybe Parise that year too but he has dropped.

Canada is really weak on right wing, so I wouldn't put it past to see Kessel making the 2018 team had he been Canadian. There is a little bit more of a forgiving mentality with him, he is far removed from the "good scorer, bad team" player he used to be. Two Cups, lots of clutch goals, still a bit of the laziness about him, but as someone said maybe a 13th forward.

I will agree with Suter on defense - Ryan that is. That's about it for sure. Him and Kane. Quick as a goalie, but he doesn't unseat Price or even Holtby. So you've got three maybe?

I can see Eichel and Matthews being those guys though. Too much promise to ignore, but would they make Canada in the next 5 months? Doubt it.

 

[JackSlater]

Funny how this has gone. In the 1980s you'd say no one pretty much. In the 1996 World Cup team there would have been lots. Chelios, Leetch and Suter on defense at least. Richter probably makes Team Canada. Up front Lafontaine makes it. Hull, Leclair, Tkachuk, etc. It stayed like that in 1998 as well but add Modano and remove Lafontaine. 2002 that core was getting older and their young players (Drury, York, etc.) weren't cutting it. So it has been that way for a while except Kane for sure since 2010. He'd have made Team Canada in 2010, maybe Parise that year too but he has dropped.

Canada is really weak on right wing, so I wouldn't put it past to see Kessel making the 2018 team had he been Canadian. There is a little bit more of a forgiving mentality with him, he is far removed from the "good scorer, bad team" player he used to be. Two Cups, lots of clutch goals, still a bit of the laziness about him, but as someone said maybe a 13th forward.

I will agree with Suter on defense - Ryan that is. That's about it for sure. Him and Kane. Quick as a goalie, but he doesn't unseat Price or even Holtby. So you've got three maybe?

I can see Eichel and Matthews being those guys though. Too much promise to ignore, but would they make Canada in the next 5 months? Doubt it.

I would say that there is almost no chance that Kane would make Canada in 2010. St. Louis didn't make the team (wasn't even the 14th forward) and he would have to rank ahead of Kane by December 2009. Canada builds around centres, and it is difficult with playmaking wingers.

 

[Big Phil]

I would say that there is almost no chance that Kane would make Canada in 2010. St. Louis didn't make the team (wasn't even the 14th forward) and he would have to rank ahead of Kane by December 2009. Canada builds around centres, and it is difficult with playmaking wingers.

Yeah maybe not. I am thinking about Kane throughout that entire 2010 season. The 88 points, then the huge contributions to the Cup win. But maybe a bit premature in December 2009. I know Canada builds around centres, and that year they had a ton of natural centres (Crosby, Thornton, Getzlaf, Staal, Toews, Richards, Bergeron). Where does St. Louis fit? They still had pretty good right wingers on that team and they were more or less all snipers.

 

[Xokkeu]

Funny how this has gone. In the 1980s you'd say no one pretty much. In the 1996 World Cup team there would have been lots. Chelios, Leetch and Suter on defense at least. Richter probably makes Team Canada. Up front Lafontaine makes it. Hull, Leclair, Tkachuk, etc. It stayed like that in 1998 as well but add Modano and remove Lafontaine. 2002 that core was getting older and their young players (Drury, York, etc.) weren't cutting it. So it has been that way for a while except Kane for sure since 2010. He'd have made Team Canada in 2010, maybe Parise that year too but he has dropped.

Canada is really weak on right wing, so I wouldn't put it past to see Kessel making the 2018 team had he been Canadian. There is a little bit more of a forgiving mentality with him, he is far removed from the "good scorer, bad team" player he used to be. Two Cups, lots of clutch goals, still a bit of the laziness about him, but as someone said maybe a 13th forward.

I will agree with Suter on defense - Ryan that is. That's about it for sure. Him and Kane. Quick as a goalie, but he doesn't unseat Price or even Holtby. So you've got three maybe?

I can see Eichel and Matthews being those guys though. Too much promise to ignore, but would they make Canada in the next 5 months? Doubt it.

The 1990 USA generation was really something.

 

[JackSlater]

The 1990 USA generation was really something.

I think that an account of how most of that generation of top American players came about would be a very interesting read. It is easy to understand why USA has many top end players today - massive numbers and the development program/USHL. That wasn't really the case for the American players who started entering the NHL in the early 80s to the early 90s. I know that several have cited the Orr effect, and the 1980 Olympics would presumably have been further encouragement, but I would like to get an idea of why there was a sudden "golden generation" from USA. It's kind of amazing that the top end talent of that time could be very comparable if not better than that of today despite there being such a greater depth of American players today.