GDT: AMERICA ON TOP OF THE HOCKEY WORLD! USA USA USA
- Thread starter EdJovanovski
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NYR94
Registered User
Barnaby
Registered User
Yea, I’m not putting Fast in that group, but you could probably make an argument for about 7-8 guys. In the end, I’ll always have a soft spot for those teams. After 10-15 years of guys skating in circles and collecting paychecks, it was a pleasure to watch guys who left it all out there.
But what if your main asset is your shot or something else? Why do you by default have less heart than someone that is physical?
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Barnaby
Registered User
Im not saying you have to be a wrecking ball to have heart. I know what you’re saying and I don’t disagree. However, it’s a guy like Girardi or Callahan diving at slap shots with disregard for their safety or a player like Prust who drops his gloves regularly knowing he’s usually the smaller guy and going to most likely take some big shots that stand out most to me. I guess the better way to put it isn’t that other guys don’t have heart, but that these guys just tend to stand out more. You can’t unsee a Girardi or Callahan trying to block an Ovy slapshot with their chests. Mind you, these guys came around following 10 years of the most apathetic hockey I’ve ever seen in my life so some of these guys were just extra respected and appreciated.
Tim Stutzle is gonna be worth the price of admission. Lafreniere>Stutzle>>>> everyone else.
This is my opinion as well. I think Stuetzle is going to end up being so much more impressive than Byfield. I think people are really just so jazzed about Byfield’s size and ability to impose his will on much smaller, weaker players that they’ve overlooked a fair amount of weaknesses to drool over the strengths. I’d bet Laf and Stuetzle are the two best forwards from this draft.
Edge
Kris King's Ghost
Stuetzle has the sizzle factor that is easy to get excited about.
But he’s definitely a guy who has a chance to be a legit offensive star in the NHL.
Edge
Kris King's Ghost
Berard and Vierling have much better odds of being important pieces on an NHL roster than the average fan (or even observer) realizes at this stage.
KirkAlbuquerque
#WeNeverGetAGoodCoach
Amazing Kreiderman
Registered User
- Apr 11, 2011
- 45,070
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While you should never judge a prospect (especially an 18 year old) on a 7-game sample size at the WJC, it's interesting to see the same people who defended him last year by saying "Just you wait, next year he will do what Lafreniere did this year. Lafreniere is a year older" are now backpeddling when Byfield isn't showing the dominance they were expecting.
Byfield will likely be a good player in the NHL but the pay off simply isn't there early on (Which is fine)
fans are always looking for instant gratification and look at what players are now not what they can be...obviously having a kid be a star from day 1 is amazing but there also should be some common sense. you don't draft a guy like byfield, who would have been 17 at the time of a normal draft, for his impact the following season. just like we didn't draft kakko for last season. a connor mcdavid being a superstar from day 1 is the exception...most players take a minute to get there and for some reason fans seem to forget that every year.
McSauer
Defense Wins Games
This would all be 1000000% valid if he were struggling in the NHL.
He's struggling against kids his own age. He has time to turn it around but I don't think its too much for him to stand out in this tournament, he is the highest draft pick there.
- Aug 5, 2010
- 13,851
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Without going an extra step to validate generally I don’t think many 2OA get a chance to still go back to play in WJC but if they do - their lineup placement is way higher than a 4th line.
Definitely not a good look.
He's been dominant in the OHL against kids his age and older. Teams like the Czech Republic, Austria, this German team, this Swedish team, etc., are not markedly different than an OHL team, IMO. This is a really watered-down WJC. So why isn't he showing up at this competition? It's strange. There are only a couple teams where it's really a "step up" in competition for him, and he's on the best of them.
I don't put a ton of stock into the WJC, particularly in such a weird year like this one. However, if I was a Kings fan, I wouldn't be happy.
I don't put a ton of stock into the WJC, particularly in such a weird year like this one. However, if I was a Kings fan, I wouldn't be happy.
Had Byfield been coming off a fall-run in the OHL and hit the skids in the WJC I might give his performance a passing thought. Really, at this point, this is the first meaningful hockey a lot of these kids have been playing since June. It's even less of reliable measuring stick than usual, IMO.
Throw in the fact that he only turned 18 a few months ago and that he's a project-type of selection, I really don't think there's anything to read into here. Him dominating would've been more of a surprise than him being overshadowed by older, more developed players on his team.
Throw in the fact that he only turned 18 a few months ago and that he's a project-type of selection, I really don't think there's anything to read into here. Him dominating would've been more of a surprise than him being overshadowed by older, more developed players on his team.
Moreover, I don’t think anyone is calling Byfield a bust. Prior to actually picking Lafreniere there were at least a dozen conversations on this forum about whether we should take Byfield instead because he’s a center and SIZE. Byfield will no doubt be a good player, but I think it’s fairly evident that Lafreniere was well ahead of the pack in the draft last year and even his 10 month age gap doesn’t account for the size of the gap.
Stutzle hasn't played a game in a while either, missed a few months of training time because of a broken hand and is playing on a severely undermanned German team.
Hasn't stopped him from being a stand out.
Even if the talent level may be on par to that of what you'd see on a good OHL team (Sweden doesn't belong in there, that team would wipe the floor with ANY CHL team imo), these teams are MUCH more structured than what you'd see in the O.
Byfield did most of his damage off the rush with zero pressure last season. The few times that he actually played a team where his first and second options were taken away, he struggled.
He need to play in a pro league once this tournament is over. The OHL will not do anything for him.
Hasn't stopped him from being a stand out.
nyr2k2 said:
Even if the talent level may be on par to that of what you'd see on a good OHL team (Sweden doesn't belong in there, that team would wipe the floor with ANY CHL team imo), these teams are MUCH more structured than what you'd see in the O.
Byfield did most of his damage off the rush with zero pressure last season. The few times that he actually played a team where his first and second options were taken away, he struggled.
He need to play in a pro league once this tournament is over. The OHL will not do anything for him.
When does Vierling start playing this year (if at all)?
Eh maybe he's a victim of the hype. I think the problem is how much people got up to proclaim him the potential best player in the draft and talked about how he could be the best player in the draft easily when he developed and a lot of that talk didn't hedge the bets too much on that either. Basically, he's been talked up a LOT, with some people saying he should have gone first overall because of his "higher upside".
So when he's playing a support role at best in the WJC after his draft year and isn't even doing the things that made him successful in the OHL, the backlash is inevitable.
I think the truth would seem to be that he has fantastic talents and a high upside but he's nowhere close to that upside right now. And if I'm being honest I'd say I would have been nervous if it was the Rangers in the position to pick him because the whole "huge guy with skills that just needs to develop into it and he'll be dominant!" story so rarely works out in such a way that the player actually hits their top upside. What are the odds he really completely hits his full upside and becomes a franchise center? What are the odds he becomes a pretty good NHL center with size, maybe 60-70 points per season? If I'm hedging my bets I'm hedging a bit more towards that 70 point center with size, and that is very valuable but not the 100 point dominant force people keep expecting him to be
And yeah, Byfield also has to learn how to play a pro style game and do more than generate points off the rush
Reminder: The Berard Bonanza continues in 22 minutes.
Realistically Lafreniere was playing in a similar league with similar competition to Byfield and was 18 and 2 months at the WJC last year. He absolutely dominated and won MVP. Byfield is 10 months younger, but it’s a year later. He’s now 18 and 4 months and isn’t showing much. He’s a couple months older now than Laf was when he tore this tournament up. Byfield will probably be a darn good player but there was only one potential franchise talent in the draft and he’s going to be wearing #13 on Broadway. The discussions of Byfield being drafted over Laf were obviously silly in hindsight.
I personally know Cally and his family. He is just a great dude. So I may tend to defend him a little more than the average fan, but I get some people's gripe with him. But still think he played with a lot of heart and I don't think he sulked during his contract year. He priced himself out no doubt but didn't sulk, imo. I remember going to that game vs Colorado before he was traded, he was a beast. To me, Zucc sulked, not him. But anyway, he is retired now, and not going to get into a long debate over it anymore. I am looking at the future now and finding new players to root for, but it was more personal to me with Cally.
romba
Registered User
Yea Callahan had high demands and forced his way out when he didn't back off of them, but he still left it all on the ice. Zucc had trouble staying sharp during trade talks and it showed and hurt his value, but I don't think he tanked. And his 2 sweetheart deals for the team helped wash away that memory away a bit.
