Despite his draft pedigree, I have almost no doubt that Berard will be an NHL player. He should have gone at least 40 spots higher, if not 50 or 60. Obviously predicting multiple 50+ point seasons would be ambitiously jumping the gun, but I see him very much in a Cam Atkinson/Brad Marchand mould. He has all of the skills and it’s only size that kept him from being a second rounder. He doesn’t play like his size and it won’t stop him, IMO. I think he can become a top six player. We’re talking 4-6 years from now, but he could reach that, after breaking in as a bottom sixer initially. Marchand went 71st, Atkinson went 157th. Berard went 134th and was generally projected between 50-90.
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His hands and IQ are not only not detriments, they’re assets. His skating is excellent. He backchecks and forecheck relentlessly. It’s only size that led to his drop.
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IMHO, Marchand is a serious wishful thinking.
When I say 3rd liner (if he reaches that level) it doesn’t mean he won’t find a way onto a 2nd line but then other circumstances would contribute. It was the same with Callahan, and he was a top-6 for what a couple of seasons out of his whole career?
Barnaby
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Yea, I’m not predicting a Marchand outcome. That’s a serious “if everything goes 100% right.” Absolute best case scenario. It’s like saying Miller could be on par with Seth Jones or Kravstov could be as good as Alexei Kovalev... sure, it could happen, but a wise man isn’t putting his money down on that bet.
I think you’re underrating Callahan, but it’s semantics. He was a legit top 6 forward for 6-7 years. Even his first year in TB he scored 24 goals and had 54 points in 70 games. That’s not 3rd line production. That’s on par with Chris Kreider who most people will call a first liner here.
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A bit?
He went from being mr heart and soul to being a pouty child the second things didn't go his way. He worked hard to get to where he is (undrafted unknown to NHL regular is no easy feat) but I hope none of our recent draftees are as mentally weak as him.
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A. I’m trying to be conservative in my assessment
B. It’s relative. First compared to his motor as part of his own skill set, his hands and IQ are not on the same level. Second, I wasn’t comparing him to his peers but rather projecting to where I think it would develop relative to NHL standards
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This is not Zuke’s discussion but c’mon. The “SECOND things didn’t go his way”? In his last Rangers contract he left a lot of money on the table to stay with that core. That’s 4 years and this was on top of one-year contract to signed before.
Not really, at least not anywhere I've seen.
He can burn pretty good (see: Yesterday's goal). Hagelin wasn't really meant to be a 1:1 comparison, but in terms of being a guy who can do the dirty work on a line while being versatile enough to move up and down a line up while being more of an offensive threat than Hags was, yeah I can see that.
I’ve definitely never seen a draft profile or scouting report that didn’t praise most aspects of his skating. His top end speed, first step, low center of gravity and agility/edge work are all mentioned in most write ups. Skating is definitely not a question mark. It’s just size and strength. He was listed at 5’9 152 in most draft profiles. Providence has him listed at 165 this year and the IIHF has him at 163 for this tournament. He just turned 18 in September. He’ll make it up to 180+ by the time he even signs his first contract, and he may grow another inch or so.
Crease
Chief Justice of the HFNYR Court
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I think you're being very hard on Zucc here.
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Yeah I can see it but there could be better comparables than Hagelin who’s defined by his world class burner speed.
Almost everyone compares him stylistically to Marchand. Not in terms of ceiling or success, just style of play.
Baby Duck Homme
Still waiting to catch a puck from Fotiu...
Amazing Kreiderman
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Synergy27
F-A-C-G-C-E
I started this discussion, and it has nothing to do with Kakko’s rookie season, which wasn’t even disappointing. I like Kakko, and have no interest in moving him.
Zegras flew under the radar a bit because of Hughes. He’s a great player and plays a more important position than Kakko.
LOFIN
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He shouldn't, but 1 game wouldn't be surprising though
Baby Duck Homme
Still waiting to catch a puck from Fotiu...
We wanted guys who play with an edge. You don’t know where the line is if you don’t cross it sometimes.
Amazing Kreiderman
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I get Cuylle at time of the draft going ahead on conventional player projection - though personally I really don't see much there - i hope i'm wrong on that, but thats one pick i wish we'd gone another direction. that said, i get what you're saying and you're right, on draft day he'd go ahead of berard on every draft board. i wouldn't argue size isn't important in the nhl, you'd have a tough time with a roster of all 5'9 guys so its reasonable to place some priority on it for sure. in berards case in particular, i know he's on the shorter side, but not abnormally short - to me the only issue would be if he was slight, but you can see that won't be the case in a few years. in my opinion though height / size is overvalued by teams - or in how i see things - prematurely given value. i think its something to account for, but to me you still need to be evaluating hockey sense above all - once you've filtered down to that pool, then you can start to assemble a pecking order that gives certain attributes priority...but the single determining factor in creating your draft pool / order should be hockey sense. you know it when you see it. nobody learns it post draft. there are some big guys with certain tools and limited hockey sense who can carve out a role, but ultimately you need a team of smart players to have a chance. and thats the issue i have with cuylle, had the same issue with gropp(in fairness to cuylle i havent seen much of him, but everything i've seen / learned put him in that group). i don't know if there's any objective way to quantify it, but i'd guess by far and away the biggest number of misses come from taking guys with tools and no toolbox with hopes they magically figure out the hockey part. re my draft comment though, i was saying if it were held today berard would be taken ahead of him - that i do believe to be true. if we differ on that point thats fair enough - differing opinions are a good thing to have in discussion.
Harbour Dog
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Top 10 pick. Not really under radar. Definitely higher profile than Kravtsov a year earlier.
Arguments re: Cuylle/Berard are similar to why I’m not remotely sold on Byfield.
Lafreniere dominated the WJC at 18 years and 2 months old. Byfield is on the 4th line and utterly pedestrian at 18 years and 4 months old this year and you can see why he may not translate at the NHL level. He tries to stick handle around guys while not moving his feet as if he’s playing a CHL game and doesn’t recognize opportunities his teammates present because his awareness isn’t elite. He’s not going to have a big enough tool box to maximize his tantalizing attributes.
Lafreniere dominated the WJC at 18 years and 2 months old. Byfield is on the 4th line and utterly pedestrian at 18 years and 4 months old this year and you can see why he may not translate at the NHL level. He tries to stick handle around guys while not moving his feet as if he’s playing a CHL game and doesn’t recognize opportunities his teammates present because his awareness isn’t elite. He’s not going to have a big enough tool box to maximize his tantalizing attributes.
Synergy27
F-A-C-G-C-E
I guess what I'm saying is that, if Hughes wasn't dominating that USNTDP class, Zegras probably would have been in the 1OA conversation.
Tob
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This is the IIHF's retribution against the Rangers for Lias' medal toss suspension that he never served.
Amazing Kreiderman
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