All things Pegula 1

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haseoke39

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Mar 29, 2011
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The only thing that qualifies anyone to run a professional sports franchise is having the money to do so. What an absurd thing to say.
Actually, most people with the money to run professional sports franchises but no relevant experience hire people with relevant experience to do it for them.

But sure, you could go with the nihilist view where nothing matters but net worth.
 
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vcv

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Mar 12, 2006
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Kim Pegula: 'It was a lot of different things' that led to recent PSE changes

Kim Pegula: 'It was a lot of different things' that led to recent PSE changes

The Bills and Sabres co-owner spoke to reporters on Tuesday

“Pegula said she’s still not certain exactly how she wants to structure PSE going forward.
“Well right now, honestly, I don't know yet how I want it to look at the end of the day," she said. "I'm still learning, and now that there's been a couple more layers that have been taken away it's just allowed me to learn more and understand more.”

...more...

This is who is running the Sabres. She’s firing people and hiring people and admittedly doesn’t know wtf she is doing.

But chill... she’s learning... she’s got this.

clearly.
That article doesn't make it clear what the context of that quote is. It implies she's talking about PSE in the previous sentence, but later in the paragraph she talks about talking to others in "the league" (NFL).

Regardless, do you think there is a single "structure" that is the right structure for any NFL team, or for any company that owns multiple sports teams?
 

vcv

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Actually, most people with the money to run professional sports franchises but no relevant experience hire people with relevant experience to do it for them.

But sure, you could go with the nihilist view where nothing matters but net worth.
That's fine, and I agree the Pegulas should do that, but at the end of the day they're still "running the team" if they do that.
 

Reddawg

We're all mad here
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You sure?

Anaheim - Bob Murray - With the Ducks since 2008
Carolina - Don Waddell - Obviously has embarrassing pictures of someone stashed somewhere, keeps getting jobs somehow
Edmonton - Ken Holland - Legend, outlier
Florida - Dale Tallon - With Florida since 2010
Nashville - David Poille - With the Preds since 1997
New Jersey - Ray Shero - With the Devils since 2015
New York - Lou Lam - Legend, outlier
New York - Jeff Gorton - Was an interim GM for about 14 weeks once
Philly - Chuck Fletcher - Fair
Pittsburgh - Jim Rutherford - With the Penguins since 2014
St Louis - Doug Armstrong - With the Blues since 2008
Vegas - George McPhee - Fair

Pretty sure. As my comment said "these days" and your list is peppered with guys who have been in their current jobs for an average of about ten years. There have been at least twelve rookie GM's hired since 2014, it's the clear trend.
 

Jame

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Pretty sure. As my comment said "these days" and your list is peppered with guys who have been in their current jobs for an average of about ten years. There have been at least twelve rookie GM's hired since 2014, it's the clear trend.

lol legend outlier twice

Since 2017... GM hires

Tallon - Repeat
Blake - New
Botts - New
Waddell - Repeat
Dubas - New
Fenton - New
Lou Lam - Repeat
Brisebois - New
Fletcher - Repeat
Holland - Repeat

50% of GMs hired in the last two years are guys who have done the job before... so maybe you're "almost never" statement was a little off.... guess your trend ended.

(And I left out Yzerman as a repeat)
 

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Kim Pegula: 'It was a lot of different things' that led to recent PSE changes

Kim Pegula: 'It was a lot of different things' that led to recent PSE changes

The Bills and Sabres co-owner spoke to reporters on Tuesday

“Pegula said she’s still not certain exactly how she wants to structure PSE going forward.
“Well right now, honestly, I don't know yet how I want it to look at the end of the day," she said. "I'm still learning, and now that there's been a couple more layers that have been taken away it's just allowed me to learn more and understand more.”

...more...

This is who is running the Sabres. She’s firing people and hiring people and admittedly doesn’t know wtf she is doing.

But chill... she’s learning... she’s got this.

clearly.

I get it...sarcasm, right?
 
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The Red Helmet

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Dec 19, 2007
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What about what I said makes me an *******.

She’s a waitress that married a billionaire. How does that qualify her to run a professional sports franchise?

Oh I know... it doesn’t.

Her results speak for themselves.
I was kind of joking but didn't realize you were being sarcastic. I'm totally with you.
 
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tsujimoto74

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May 28, 2012
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Aside from the willingness to spend $$$ on the team, which doesn't seem to have actually helped us in any way, it seems like the Pegulas have gotten just about everything they possibly could wrong as owners. They look like they're finally starting to get it right with the Bills. Fingers crossed they stop f***ing up the Sabres soon.
 

GameMisconduct

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Jul 20, 2006
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The level of Pegula shadow wrangling and armchair psychoanalysis with very little to back it up is entirely out of hand.

I get it. People are frustrated after seeing RoR hoist the cup after our GM got bent over on the trade. We just saw another postseason from the sidelines--things are especially painful now. But we have enough to be frustrated about that we can tangibly assess without piling on other things. When it's reached the point where people are blaming goalie coach hirings and ascribing Messiah complexes from afar, there needs to be a step back.

There is little in the way of rational evidence to reasonably support the Pegulas initiating the RoR trade, given that credible NHL journalists (you know, the ones that we sorely lack in this town) reported that his name was out there well before the supposed trade motivations that many people point to like end of season complex bonus deadline.

Even though it's still in the realm of hypothetical, let's think about a more realistic situation: the GM of your team, who is in regular communication with you and who is seeing a season on a trajectory to DFL, says he needs to fix the culture and identifies a candidate in RoR. People say constantly that Pegulas need to 'trust hockey people'. So let's say the owner does just that. Things come out like the locker room comments that can be seen to bear out that assessment. Is it completely unreasonable to not want to pay a bonus if you don't have to if your GM, who've you already trusted in this, says they think can still get a good return? If the GM comes to you around the bonus deadline and says it's possible we might get something better, but I like this return I have in hand right now, doesn't it seem reasonable to give the ok? On that front, here's another thing, the GM is on record multiple times as being *happy* with the return.

If anything, I think their track record as owners is far more compelling as a testament that they trust their hockey people rather than them getting in the way of them.

The issue is they've had the wrong people (which is something that is definitely on them). How do we reconcile what we see in the Bills vs the narrative with the Sabres? Do they operate wildly differently in each franchise or is it just that they seem to have hit on hires in one franchise but not yet the other.

Nothing is going to stop people from going down the rabbit hole of speculation. But without credible reporting or some other reliable knowledge source, the vast majority of what people want to pin on them is just not grounded.

They've gotten a lot of their hires wrong. This is not unique to them as new owners coming in, especially when they're not walking into the strongest personnel (Regier was good never a top tier GM, Ruff, who I will always admire was clearly past his shelf life).

I also don't think it's as easy as some paint it to get the right people in that situation will just a snap of your fingers. There is a limited subset of top tier personnel in a sport and Buffalo is what it is as a market, and had developed a reputation (deservedly so under Golisano) with things like the video scouting debacle. Before Golisano our ownership situation was so bad the NHL had to step in.

What did they do? Just try to help out personally and throw a ton of resources including upgrading the facilities into trying to bring in good player talent and management talent. They pay for personnel and don't hold off on moving on because they balk at paying someone relieved of thier duties.

I think there's also not a great recall for some of where exactly we were
before they came in (some people have even gotten to the point of fondly recalling the actions of people like Larry f****** Quinn). Charitably, we were a team with limited resources spinning our wheels that had struggled getting talent onto the team. A more honest assessment would be that we were stuck in a rut, with a limited pipeline and our better players on the the decline. We lucked to some degree into that post lockout success (and also managed to subvert it in short order). That fleeting success should in no way be taken as testament that we were some kind of well oiled machine.

I'm on record saying this before, but to reiterate, I think they're far from perfect owners (and they *really* need to get the hires right, though I don't think it's for lack if trying or a desire to be in the driver seat). But overall most the good significantly outweighs the bad.
 
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Jim Bob

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Feb 27, 2002
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I'm on record saying this before, but to reiterate, I think they're far from perfect owners (and they *really* need to get the hires right, though I don't think it's for lack if trying or a desire to be in the driver seat). But overall most the good significantly outweighs the bad.

If you look at the on ice results for the 8 years prior to Pegula buying the team and the 8 years since buying the team, there is a lot of bad results.

And almost all of the good part of their ownership has been off the ice. And even some of that has been bad.

I guess if you look at it as they kept the team in Buffalo, so no matter the results on the ice, that is the ultimate net positive.

All I know is that they are to the point where I am ready to throw them into the Dan Snyder bucket as owners that care so much that they will never figure out how to actually build a winner anytime soon.
 
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KeyserSoze81

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Mar 1, 2007
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Rochester, NY
Aside from the willingness to spend $$$ on the team, which doesn't seem to have actually helped us in any way, it seems like the Pegulas have gotten just about everything they possibly could wrong as owners. They look like they're finally starting to get it right with the Bills. Fingers crossed they stop ****ing up the Sabres soon.

They are hands-on owners. I certainly appreciate their dedication and the resources that they are willing to dump into smaller market, losing franchises. It is just disappointing that we have to bear witness to their every misstep because they have eschewed the need of established minds to manage the day-to-day operations and properly advise them.

From the Sabres perspective, it appears that the management has gotten progressively worse since they took ownership. Regier was busy accumulating assets to rebuild the team; he had at least demonstrated the ability to build winning teams, but had some key faults (overvaluing his own players, stubborn, unwilling to take risks). Murray came in with a scout's eye and had a firm idea of how he wanted to build the team. He took risks and overpaid to get the players that he wanted, but you could see some vision there. Unfortunately, he lacked the demeanor to run the organization (which could have been mitigated with a President of Hockey Ops).

Botterill came in with a good amount of promise, but he has shown no real vision for the team. His depth moves have all backfired in spectacular fashion. He has a penchant for taking on terrible contracts for little benefit. His contract management has been atrocious (Reinhart, Skinner). He clearly misfired on the Housley hire, and yet still stuck with him for 2 full years despite overwhelming evidence of his failings. For all the talk of development, his decisions have been questionable at best. He has held back players in Olofsson and Nylander in the AHL for development purposes, yet has taken key prospects and put them in positions to fail (Middlestadt, Thompson). He can hang his hat on the Skinner trade, yet we are still far worse of a team by swapping ROR with Skinner.

Thanks to the Pegulas, we have long term stability with the two franchises. They look to be getting it right with the Bills, largely because they found one very competent leader to properly manage the direction of the team (McDermott). I only wish they could realize the need to do the same for the Sabres. My honest hope is that Krueger coaches and eventually retires upward in the organization to become that missing link.
 
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tsujimoto74

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May 28, 2012
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They are hands-on owners. I certainly appreciate their dedication and the resources that they are willing to dump into smaller market, losing franchises. It is just disappointing that we have to bear witness to their every misstep because they have eschewed the need of established minds to manage the day-to-day operations and properly advise them.

From the Sabres perspective, it appears that the management has gotten progressively worse since they took ownership. Regier was busy accumulating assets to rebuild the team; he had at least demonstrated the ability to build winning teams, but had some key faults (overvaluing his own players, stubborn, unwilling to take risks). Murray came in with a scout's eye and had a firm idea of how he wanted to build the team. He took risks and overpaid to get the players that he wanted, but you could see some vision there. Unfortunately, he lacked the demeanor to run the organization (which could have been mitigated with a President of Hockey Ops).

Botterill came in with a good amount of promise, but he has shown no real vision for the team. His depth moves have all backfired in spectacular fashion. He has a penchant for taking on terrible contracts for little benefit. His contract management has been atrocious (Reinhart, Skinner). He clearly misfired on the Housley hire, and yet still stuck with him for 2 full years despite overwhelming evidence of his failings. For all the talk of development, his decisions have been questionable at best. He has held back players in Olofsson and Nylander in the AHL for development purposes, yet has taken key prospects and put them in positions to fail (Middlestadt, Thompson). He can hang his hat on the Skinner trade, yet we are still far worse of a team by swapping ROR with Skinner.

Thanks to the Pegulas, we have long term stability with the two franchises. They look to be getting it right with the Bills, largely because they found one very competent leader to properly manage the direction of the team (McDermott). I only wish they could realize the need to do the same for the Sabres. My honest hope is that Krueger coaches and eventually retires upward in the organization to become that missing link.

I have the same thoughts about Krueger. His managerial experience in conjunction with the what the team has said about the role he'll have in personnel decisions leads me to believe (or at least hope) he could be a fit as a President of Hockey Ops in the future, and the team sees that too.
 

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This is only one of a series of Legacy of Failure spots by The Urinating Tree on youtube that highlight flailing sports franchises. Our stor(ies) are actually so sad it's funny...It's a pretty nice recap of all that's gone wrong, especially in the Pegula Era. Of interest, one of the Legacy of Failure features is on the St. Louis Blues, so there's always hope, but I'm afraid, not in the Pegula Era.

Here we have a delicious blend of sports descriptions: One part illustrious legacy of failure, one part clownshow, and equal parts of misery and discontent. It's a bit of an ambitious task: A two-for-one special. If you look into it, however, the Bills and Sabres have a lot in common. Same pain, same mediocrity, and now they have the same owner. Come and witness one of the more spectacular clownshows in sports over the past year.

 
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Buffaloed

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What if the Pegulas get divorced? Is there a prenup? Does one get the Sabres and the other get the Bills? What happens to PS&E? According to Jason, Terry and Kim are frustrated. Will the fans be caught in the middle of a bitter custody fight? Sorry I was only trying to bump this thread and couldn't think of anything to type. :laugh:
 

Bendium

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Oct 18, 2019
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The Pegula's are not the problem. Like many new owners they have been through a learning curve and are getting better, learning what works and doesn't. I am completely impressed with how far Kim has come through it all, and they are trying to build good cultures from the top to bottom through all their organizations. Our city owes them a debt of gratitude for their investment in us. If they did not buy the Sabres and then the Bills, one or both teams would likely not be here. Any of the other Bills bids likely would have opted out of the stadium and moved the team this year, or at best in 2023. Instead we have a new harbor center, discussions of major renovations or a new stadium, and an ownership group who wants their next generation of the family to continue that for the long term. Buffalo is lucky to have them and fans should think careful before trying to run them out of town.
 
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sabremike

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The Pegula's are not the problem. Like many new owners they have been through a learning curve and are getting better, learning what works and doesn't. I am completely impressed with how far Kim has come through it all, and they are trying to build good cultures from the top to bottom through all their organizations. Our city owes them a debt of gratitude for their investment in us. If they did not buy the Sabres and then the Bills, one or both teams would likely not be here. Any of the other Bills bids likely would have opted out of the stadium and moved the team this year, or at best in 2023. Instead we have a new harbor center, discussions of major renovations or a new stadium, and an ownership group who wants their next generation of the family to continue that for the long term. Buffalo is lucky to have them and fans should think careful before trying to run them out of town.
I really wish people would stop claiming Pegula saved the Sabres. Tom was looking to sell but he was adamant he would refuse to sell to anyone who had any intention of moving them (also that little thing about having to move them over Bettman's dead body). He did save the Bills, but in doing so the Sabres became a distant secondary concern.

And I literally did a spit take with you talking about how they are learning and trying to build good culture. This is their ninth full season as owners and they've made the playoffs ZERO times. Has there ever been another owner who was THAT unsuccessful? Here is the record of the Pegula Error, read it and weep:

9 Seasons:

Won- 253 Lost- 335 OTL- 87 (And keep in mind that NHL .500 is such a joke that at one point last season 27 of 31 teams were at or above it)
 

Zman5778

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The Pegula's are not the problem. Like many new owners they have been through a learning curve and are getting better, learning what works and doesn't. I am completely impressed with how far Kim has come through it all, and they are trying to build good cultures from the top to bottom through all their organizations. Our city owes them a debt of gratitude for their investment in us. If they did not buy the Sabres and then the Bills, one or both teams would likely not be here. Any of the other Bills bids likely would have opted out of the stadium and moved the team this year, or at best in 2023. Instead we have a new harbor center, discussions of major renovations or a new stadium, and an ownership group who wants their next generation of the family to continue that for the long term. Buffalo is lucky to have them and fans should think careful before trying to run them out of town.

Pegula saved the Bills. No question. The NFL was perfectly willing to let the Bills relocate.

The Pegulas did NOT "save" the Sabres. The Sabres have been in and will be in no danger of moving. Ever. Among American markets for hockey, Buffalo is easily top 3. No NHL commisioner would ever allow the sale of the Sabres to someone looking to relocate.


The Pegulas aren't new owners anymore. They've been through things. No one wants to "run them out of town". It's simply acknowledgement that the Sabres have absolutely sucked under their ownership and part of it might be due to direct Pegula interaction/interference.

Saying that "The Pegulas have not done well as owners of the Sabres" is pretty much the truth. And if they don't like the truth being said.....they need to change it.
 
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Ehran

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So much of this angst would simply go away if one of the Pegula's did a press conference or interview and said "Yes, we see these issues and feel the fan's concerns. We have a plan and are actively working to improve not only the team on the ice but the fan experience as well."

Hell, they don't even need to go into specifics and it could all be BS but at least people will feel like they're being heard and their opinions matter.
 

Myllz

RELEASE THE KRAKEN
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So much of this angst would simply go away if one of the Pegula's did a press conference or interview and said "Yes, we see these issues and feel the fan's concerns. We have a plan and are actively working to improve not only the team on the ice but the fan experience as well."

Hell, they don't even need to go into specifics and it could all be BS but at least people will feel like they're being heard and their opinions matter.

Without knowing the specifics, that would do absolutely nothing for me.
 

Chainshot

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Without knowing the specifics, that would do absolutely nothing for me.

exactly. The trust has been burned enough that it’s no longer sufficient to just stand up in front of the press and say shallow plaudits about plan and that they’re working diligently to fix things. We are now in the “you need to show me what the f*** you’re doing before I pay money for your tooth product anymore“ stage of things. Actually get to who has been relieved of their duties, who is taking on the concerns and what the by when for completion is. And even that doesn’t guarantee that I’d be interested in coming back to the shitty product. But it would be the first step and it’s starting to make things right, taking ownership of the problems, and being accountable for them.
 

kirby11

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Mar 16, 2011
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Sabres in the 40 years prior to Pegula ownership: Only missed the playoffs 11 times.

Sabres under Pegula: about to miss the playoffs for the 9th year in a row while alienating long-term fans and giving potential new fans absolutely no reason to care about the team.
 
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