All purpose trade/roster building thread the 13th

[GIN ANTONIC]

Yeah, I think you might be missing what I am trying to say though. I agree that in the end, it was only about being near home. My point was that I (and others) knew he preferred to play near home, so that wasn't really in question back then, as you and others had stated it. The assumption I made (which was incorrect), was that since he was a UFA in only 1 year (at the time of the trade), the he might want to play for a contender for 1 year so he could get in the playoffs and then sign with a team near home after that. After all, if he wasn't traded at all, he'd be far from home in Carolina for that 1 year anyhow so 1 year at another contending team vs. 1 year in Carolina didn't seem like a big deal to me. Clearly, that that assumption was wrong.

Not that any of it matters in the end though.

The point of this whole discussion is that we don't always know why guys will or won't waive their NMC for certain teams so we can't assume Stamkos (or T. Johnson) won't for sure.

I get what you’re saying and I get your logic of ‘its only for 1 year’ but consider this point.

Whats the one thing worse for a guy who doesn’t want to uproot his life and change teams? Doing it twice.

Like I said, Skinner and waiving his NTC was obviously much more specific than most other players so I wouldn’t use him as the rule and definitely the exception. What I am saying though, is the talk of him agreeing to Buffalo mainly because they were a team on the upswing or a dark horse contender or whatever is twisting the truth. Maybe that was something that helped him feel better on the hockey side of things but it wasn’t the primary reason for him choosing buffalo.

Anyway, I’m agreeing with you on all that other stuff so we’re good

 

[Big Daddy Cane]

I'm not following the idea of a team with $3 mil-$4 mil to play with (per Waddell) using it to retain salary.

 

[GoldiFox]

Am I out to lunch here or does getting a starting goalie at half his cap hit and a 2nd round pick for nothing seem like a gift horse we shouldn't look in the mouth?

Maybe they don't see Fleury as a starter and just want to retain $3.5 million to add a 1st + 2nd. Basically Marleau 2.0.

 

[CanesFanBudMan]

I'm not following the idea of a team with $3 mil-$4 mil to play with (per Waddell) using it to retain salary.

If they are looking at this there has to be a tentative plan in place for money out (not just this year but next)

 

[bleedgreen]

No one is seeing Fleury as a starter I don’t think. I don’t mind him as a replacement to Reimer or something like that if half is retained. He may not be a better goalie than Reimer though.

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

Am I out to lunch here or does getting a starting goalie at half his cap hit and a 2nd round pick for nothing seem like a gift horse we shouldn't look in the mouth?

that 2nd year is the issue. If he falls off the 35 year old cliff then he becomes an anchor.

I dont like adding him at all due to he could be anchor for 2 years.

 

[DaveG]

Again, Skinner went to Buffalo because of proximity to Toronto. I’m sure true idea of playing with Eichel was nice but to think it was the motivating factor or the Sabres being a contender is twisting things.

Let’s put it this way, if Buffalo wasn’t interested and Ottawa was I’m 100% he’d be a senator right now and that has nothing to do with being competitive.

Yep. LA was ready to trade the #20 for him (we probably would've taken Bokk there) and all of a sudden that fell through and they signed Kovalchuk instead.

Then came the shade from Erik Cole about the whole not being willing to waive his NTC thing. Have to think the only teams he was willing to consider were Toronto, Buffalo, Ottawa, and maybe Detroit

 

[spockBokk]

Maybe they don't see Fleury as a starter and just want to retain $3.5 million to add a 1st + 2nd. Basically Marleau 2.0.

It’s actually more expensive than Marleau as Fleury’s on a 2yr deal instead of just the 1. They have Vegas by the giblets, tell them to cough it up or pound sand.

What I don’t understand is, where would a 3rd team come in, just to retain the 50%? What would their compensation be?

or am I just completely missing something here?

 

[GIN ANTONIC]

Maybe they don't see Fleury as a starter and just want to retain $3.5 million to add a 1st + 2nd. Basically Marleau 2.0.

I think they realize that Vegas is over a barrel with Fleury especially having already inked Lehner to that extension. The secrets out and the world knows they need to move him so no need take their first offer of Fleury + 2nd.

Just like you said Marleau 2.0 so might as well extract as much value as you can.

 

[Big Daddy Cane]

If they are looking at this there has to be a tentative plan in place for money out (not just this year but next)

Getting out of Niederreiter or Gardiner clean at a reasonable price in this environment is dubious. If they could do that, wouldn't it make more sense to use the free cap to improve the current roster instead?

Is @TheRillestPaulFenton Don Waddell's HF account?

 

[DaveG]

Am I out to lunch here or does getting a starting goalie at half his cap hit and a 2nd round pick for nothing seem like a gift horse we shouldn't look in the mouth?

He's not a starter anymore. That said I wonder if we end up getting him at max retained for their first.

I legitimately think Reimer is a better goalie at this point but it may also be about having a goalie to expose to Seattle as well

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

He's not a starter anymore. That said I wonder if we end up getting him at max retained for their first.

I legitimately think Reimer is a better goalie at this point but it may also be about having a goalie to expose to Seattle as well

We can expose Ned. Chances of Seattle taking him are probably pretty slim.

EDIT: We'd just need to qualify him first.

 

[DaveG]

We can expose Ned. Chances of Seattle taking him are probably pretty slim.

Is the games played threshold only for skaters?

 

[CanesFanBudMan]

So based on the video the canes would not be taking MAF, but would be the middle man for 1/2 salary for the cost of a 1st and 2nd.

 

[Chrispy]

We can expose Ned. Chances of Seattle taking him are probably pretty slim.

EDIT: We'd just need to qualify him first.

And not have him scooped up by someone off waivers this year.
I know it's unlikely, but someone has an injury in camp and they could be looking for a cheap backup.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Is the games played threshold only for skaters?

The rules I've seen do not have a "games played" statement for goalies.

* One defenseman who is a) under contract in 2021-22 and b) played in at least 40 NHL games the prior season or played in at least 70 NHL games in the prior two seasons.
* Two forwards who are a) under contract in 2021-22 and b) played at least 40 NHL games the prior season or played in at least 70 NHL games in the prior two seasons.
* One goalie who is under contract in 2021-22 or will be a restricted free agent at the end of his current contract immediately prior to 2021-22. If a team elects to make a restricted free agent goalie available to meet this requirement, that goalie must have received his qualifying offer prior to the submission of the team's protected list.

 

[Chrispy]

Is the games played threshold only for skaters?

Yes. Just need a goalie under contract or tendered RFA.

 

[CanesFanBudMan]

So based on the video the canes would not be taking MAF, but would be the middle man for 1/2 salary for the cost of a 1st and 2nd.

If they are looking at this they almost have to have something in the works to move NN, Skjei, Gards (or Jordo)

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

we can sign Booth to a two year in case Ned is grabbed on waivers.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

And not have him scooped up by someone off waivers this year.
I know it's unlikely, but someone has an injury in camp and they could be looking for a cheap backup.

True, that's a slight chance that happens. As we've seen though, early in the season like that, most guys pass right though.

Either way, it's not difficult to sign a guy or qualify/sign another RFA to expose. Any of Ned, Booth, Helvig, and Forsberg if they are still under contract or receive a QO.

 

[GoldiFox]

It’s actually more expensive than Marleau as Fleury’s on a 2yr deal instead of just the 1. They have Vegas by the giblets, tell them to cough it up or pound sand.

What I don’t understand is, where would a 3rd team come in, just to retain the 50%? What would their compensation be?

or am I just completely missing something here?

To me, watching the video, it sounds like the Canes are one of the teams looking to be a middleman and retain 50% of the contract for 1st + 2nd round picks rather than being the final destination. Although Sara's tweet appears to not say that.

Maybe the Canes would treat it like a Reimer situation where they try to move him again and if it doesn't work out they just keep MAF.

 

[A Star is Burns]

I think we're playing it smart. Between the two year commitment, our limited space, and Vegas being up against it, it'd be the first minimum. Given two years, I'd need something else probably too, even if not a 2nd, to complete the laundering. And their 1st isn't even that attractive (29thish?) and if I recall correctly, they don't have a 2nd until 2 2nds next year.

 

[DaveG]

If they are looking at this they almost have to have something in the works to move NN, Skjei, Gards (or Jordo)

Not even sure that's needed if I understood Sarah's tweet correctly. Vegas is offering max retention here which means it's basically salary neutral with Reimer if we can move him.

 

[spockBokk]

To me, watching the video, it sounds like the Canes are one of the teams looking to be a middleman and retain 50% of the contract for 1st + 2nd round picks rather than being the final destination. Although Sara's tweet appears to not say that.

Maybe the Canes would treat it like a Reimer situation where they try to move him again and if it doesn't work out they just keep MAF.

Yeah, it sounds from the video, they’d just be interested in retaining, but that really makes no sense.

It does however, at least to me, to acquire the picks and player, but then I have no idea how the retention would work, with Vegas retaining or with another team doing it(but also wanting some compensation)? The Canes surely can’t be looking at taking on the full cap hit...

 

[Anton Dubinchuk]

Well alright then, I guess I'm higher on Fleury than most

"Starter" starter, nah. I think he could be a 1a though. Or at least not look out of place replacing one of our two guys. But the upside is there too.

If we signed Fleury in the offseason for 2 years $3.5m I wouldn't love it but wouldn't hate it. But we're being offered a 2nd to do that.

We might just be negotiating up to a first, though. 1st and a 2nd seems absurd, but maybe we're trying to upgrade to a 1st since it'll likely be a late one.