All purpose trade/roster building thread the 13th

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CanesFanBudMan

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Vegas taking on salary in the form of one of Carolina's excess D seems odd, unless the thought is Gardiner is part of a Fleury deal.
I can’t make it work.

based on the Olli Maatta trade I would think that we could find a taker for Gardiner’s contract for about a wash. MAF has already shown to have more negative value than a 2nd.

VGK does not have the space to take a bad contract so I don’t know how you would balance this out.
 
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WreckingCrew

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A 23 man roster is unnecessary. This is the area in which it's beneficial to be affiliated with Chicago; let the Wolves flex their muscle to sign quality tweeners that can be recalled as necessary. Preserve the cap space for the deadline and also to protect against performance bonuses. If Svechnikov has a monster year and they go right to cap, they're looking at an overage at an inopportune time.

I still wonder about a guy like Ceci. A RHD with some grit to be a part of a 3rd pairing rotation makes sense to me. He may get squeezed in this marketplace. What Toronto saw in him in terms of his underlying numbers may be attractive to Carolina as well.
...that's not how it works though. Canes would still need to sign these guys to a contract and send them down through waivers, it's just they'd be asking Chicago to pick up the tab. Maybe that's what you're saying, it just comes across as letting the Wolves sign the guys?
 

Boom Boom Apathy

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...that's not how it works though. Canes would still need to sign these guys to a contract and send them down through waivers, it's just they'd be asking Chicago to pick up the tab.

True, but most "journey men" type depth players have no problems passing through waivers. Brian Gibbons, Patrick Brown, etc... type players. Guys that can fill in the 4th line and don't kill you for 7 min. / night is what I think BDC was talking about.
 

WreckingCrew

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True, but most "journey men" type depth players have no problems passing through waivers. Brian Gibbons, Patrick Brown, etc... type players. Guys that can fill in the 4th line and don't kill you for 7 min. / night is what I think BDC was talking about.
Yea, i just updated my post slightly as you replied, i think you're right that's what BDC was getting it, it just read to me like getting the Wolves to sign the guys.
 

TheReelChuckFletcher

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I can’t make it work.

based on the Olli Maatta trade I would think that we could find a taker for Gardiner’s contract for about a wash. MAF has already shown to have more negative value than a 2nd.

VGK does not have the space to take a bad contract so I don’t know how you would balance this out.

I don't want salary dumping deals unless it's like De Haan's where the Hawks take the entire hit and no actual young assets are sent away. I'd rather hold onto Gardiner and Dzingel in a situation like that and bet on a rebound instead. To me, the smart play is never to create dead space unless you absolutely have to or if you get compensated with draft picks for doing so (hence why I'm not uncomfortable with a Fleury + a 1st deal). Never put yourself in a position of desperation.
 
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Big Daddy Cane

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True, but most "journey men" type depth players have no problems passing through waivers. Brian Gibbons, Patrick Brown, etc... type players. Guys that can fill in the 4th line and don't kill you for 7 min. / night is what I think BDC was talking about.

Yea, i just updated my post slightly as you replied, i think you're right that's what BDC was getting it, it just read to me like getting the Wolves to sign the guys.

Poor phrasing on my part. There's cost sharing between the two parties, obviously. The Canes can freeride to an extent on the deeper pockets of the Wolves.

Some higher priced AHL vets that can slide up and down without much threat of being claimed, a la Gibbons in 2019, is a necessity I think. The NHL minimum salary is 700k. Carrying a 22nd and 23rd man to sit in the press box regularly chews up $1.4 mil in cap space. Things are already tight.
 

GoldiFox

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The only way I see the Canes trading for Laine is if he would immediately sign an extension similar to the one they offered Svech - something like $7.5-8 million x 5+ years. I don't see Dundon signing off on Laine without some cost certainty given Svech and Dougie's contracts in the pipeline.

If Laine did sign $8 million x 5 years and the Canes then signed Svech to a ~$6 million bridge deal then I think it may be possible to fit everyone in. They would just have to find some way to ship out Gardiner and Niederreiter/Dzingle. Plus fix the goalies.
 

Big Daddy Cane

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But you'll likely need at least a 21 man roster in a Covid season, probably 22 to have one extra F and one extra D.

You don't want to be caught down a man or 2 because of a positive test or a sudden fever spike a couple hours before a game.

The extras don't need to be much; I'd let McKeown sit in the press box as #7D and Covid insurance, for instance. If someone actually goes out game day, he plays a game and then goes back to the box when Bean or someone else is called up.

A 21 man roster for sure. A perma 22nd is pushing things. The Canes wouldn't be alone with one spare; the flat cap necessitates it for a lot of clubs.

Ceci is not good. Anything over 2 million on a 1 year contract is a bad idea. For what he'd likely cost I'd rather just bring back TVR.

I was thinking closer to $1 mil-$1.25 mil a la Bogosian. There's a ton out there in terms of RHD and some are going to get squeezed. There's not enough cap space to go around. If not Ceci, a flyer on Kevan Miller or Benning would work.
 

GIN ANTONIC

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A 21 man roster for sure. A perma 22nd is pushing things. The Canes wouldn't be alone with one spare; the flat cap necessitates it for a lot of clubs.



I was thinking closer to $1 mil-$1.25 mil a la Bogosian. There's a ton out there in terms of RHD and some are going to get squeezed. There's not enough cap space to go around. If not Ceci, a flyer on Kevan Miller or Benning would work.

Yeah, sure. If you want to go $1.5 max or something like that then no problem.
 
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2Minutes4Surging

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A 23 man roster is unnecessary. This is the area in which it's beneficial to be affiliated with Chicago; let the Wolves flex their muscle to sign quality tweeners that can be recalled as necessary. Preserve the cap space for the deadline and also to protect against performance bonuses. If Svechnikov has a monster year and they go right to cap, they're looking at an overage at an inopportune time.

I still wonder about a guy like Ceci. A RHD with some grit to be a part of a 3rd pairing rotation makes sense to me. He may get squeezed in this marketplace. What Toronto saw in him in terms of his underlying numbers may be attractive to Carolina as well.
If we make zero moves this offseason then we have no extra forwards in case of injury. We are also banking on the players we do have, like Geekie who has only played like 15 NHL games to be a regular fixture in the line-up. If someone is slumping hard or if we want to shake things up we have no one to turn to. I'm not talking about signing middle-6 level guy, but I think we need to carry an extra forward for insurance in a Covid-season on a cheap one-year deal. Even if we acquire some career AHLers on two-way deals that Chicago helps foot the bill for, they still aren't as good as a cheap veteran on a one-way, one-year deal, ala Pat Maroon.
 
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TheReelChuckFletcher

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If we make zero moves this offseason then we have no extra forwards in case of injury. We are also banking on the players we do have, like Geekie who has only played like 15 NHL games to be a regular fixture in the line-up. If someone is slumping hard or if we want to shake things up we have no one to turn to. I'm not talking about signing middle-6 level guy, but I think we need to carry an extra forward for insurance in a Covid-season on a cheap one-year deal. Even if we acquire some career AHLers on two-way deals that Chicago helps foot the bill for, they still aren't as good as a cheap veteran on a one-way, one-year deal, ala Pat Maroon.

Hence the rumors connecting us to Jesper Fast, just saying.
 
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2Minutes4Surging

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Hence the rumors connecting us to Jesper Fast, just saying.
The point of my original post was to spark conversation about cheap UFA additions. It has been said by the FO that we may be sticking with what we have on the roster due to circumstances with flat cap. I still think we move Dzingel out and whether we do or not it wouldn't be a bad idea to add a cheap UFA either way. I was just wonder what other's take was on who they would prefer. Fast is a good option, but he has been linked to other teams as well and he isn't coming in at less than $2M unless it is on a longer deal, I wouldn't think.
 
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TheReelChuckFletcher

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I think they could get rid of Gards and Dzingle easily enough.

They can, but I hope they don't. It was like all of those trade rumors with Faulk after a bad season. The Canes were patient, let Faulk rebound his game, and then got Dominik Bokk for him. I'd rather trade a guy coming off a good year and sell high than sell a guy at his lowest point. Haula, for example, was really good for a while, and once there were rumors that Haula didn't want to stick around in Carolina, the Canes parlayed him and others into Trocheck while he was still over 0.5 PPG. One rebound year with us and a guy like Dzingel could be a good own-rental asset or be used at the deadline in yet another Trocheck-like deal.
 
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CanesFanBudMan

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The point of my original post was to spark conversation about cheap UFA additions. It has been said by the FO that we may be sticking with what we have on the roster due to circumstances with flat cap. I still think we move Dzingel out and whether we do or not it wouldn't be a bad idea to add a cheap UFA either way. I was just wonder what other's take was on who they would prefer. Fast is a good option, but he has been linked to other teams as well and he isn't coming in at less than $2M unless it is on a longer deal, I wouldn't think.
I’d take a flier on Granlund if they make space in the roster and don’t make any big moves
 

Boom Boom Apathy

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I think Laine ends up in MTL if he’s traded. The emergence of Suzuki in the playoffs gives them Suzuki, Danault, KK, and Domi at C. They could use a winger and can package one of KK or Suzuki (or to a lesser extent Domi) and picks/prospects for A decent package for Laine. Plus Bergevin is probably looking to make a splash after the failed offer sheet last year.
 
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Vagrant

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my gut tells me that pesce could be shown the door at some point. i believe it was rumored that he quietly asked to be traded at some point during the last couple of years or was that debunked? he would be perfect for the way winnipeg is going to have to win. they don't have the horses to gallop and if there ever was a player that needed to play on a gallop it's patrick laine. they have a vezina goaltender and are coached by paul maurice and the rest of that thought should predictive text. pesce out and bean/honka/keane in would disperse the payroll differently in a way that we probably need. surprisingly, haydn fleury starting to appear on the verge of some meaningful hockey might give us less pause in a move like that also.

i like pesce a lot, but he's at his best in a structure that doesn't tax his skating as much because his feet are fairly heavy. i just don't see that as the vision we have for the composition in the long term. a few of his comps through 4 years are johnny oduya, eric dejardins and roman hamrlik and those seem fair to me. but honestly, if we get what we're supposed to get out of the rest of our guys we could better recover from that loss than we could losing anything at all from our forwards. i don't think slavin, hamilton, skjei, fleury, gardiner, bean/honka/sellgren would cause us any issues whatsoever. where that trade hurts us more is in losing necas and i would do anything in my power to convince them to take suzuki, 13th overall, bokk, or whatever the hell else they'd need to sub him out but you probably don't get it done without that hurt. the *only* positive you could take from losing necas is that it would probably provide us the space for another developmental forward to take a full time role and perhaps blossom for the opportunity. having the "best system" or whatever is fantastic but it's meaningless if none of those players turn into nhl players because you can't find the room. there's nobody rotting on the vine here but it would be nice to start being able to circulate some guys through to get a look as their development dictates.

and as far as how it would influence our budget moving forward, you'd have to say goodbye to hamilton in my opinion but i think they're preparing for that possibility regardless. they're betting against him this year and make no secret about it. they haven't even had exploratory talks about an extension and the unspoken message is do it again. i don't know what happens if he does and i don't know what happens if he doesn't, but when you're willing to take that position you're making a quiet admission in my opinion. the fan enthusiasm doesn't seem to mirror the organizational enthusiasm.

this post is one of the hardest ratios ive taken on the boards since they started counting likes. i should have unpopular opinion tagged it. whoops
 

Stickpucker

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Here's some completely fictional hfboards math:

Let's say WPG wants Necas + Pesce (too much but let's play along). I think next season Necas will be comparable to Ehlers in value. Similarish production, RFA/Elc Necas vs cost control for Ehlers but some additional value for Necas due to center potential. So Necas = Ehlers = Nylander. Pesce = Nylander.

So Canes are paying two Nylanders for one Laine. Bit too much if you ask me.

Are you sure you're Finnish??
 
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TheReelChuckFletcher

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I can’t make it work.

based on the Olli Maatta trade I would think that we could find a taker for Gardiner’s contract for about a wash. MAF has already shown to have more negative value than a 2nd.

VGK does not have the space to take a bad contract so I don’t know how you would balance this out.

You're making it too complicated. A hypothetical Fleury deal can be concocted just like this:

MA Fleury, Lucas Elvenes, 2021 1st for Petr Mrazek and a 6th

Then send Reimer to a cap floor club after his bonus for a 3rd or 4th round pick, and finally either get a tandem guy in UFA, deal for Demko if Markstrom extends with the Nucks, or promote Nedeljkovic to #2.
 

Penaltykiller17

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Would anybody do a deal centered around Trocheck for Stamkos? Moving him would certainly help Tampa resign their RFA’s. We’d also have a legit 40 goal caliber 2 C locked down for years.
 

Boom Boom Apathy

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Would anybody do a deal centered around Trocheck for Stamkos? Moving him would certainly help Tampa resign their RFA’s. We’d also have a legit 40 goal caliber 2 C locked down for years.

In a heartbeat, with one caveat. Would want to ensure that Stamkos can recover and not have lingering injury concerns.

This year his salary is high, but it drops to $7.5M, $6.5M, and $6.5M in the last 3 years which is very reasonable. It's heavily signing bonus laden which may not be palatable to Dundon and co. though.

Imagine the PP with Dougie at the point, Stamkos lined up for the 1 timer, Svech in front/behind the net, and Aho and TT feeding these guys the puck.

If he is healthy, I think it would take a lot more than that to get him though, as other teams (NYR, DET) could offer more. He'd also have to want to waive his NMC to come here.
 
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