All Purpose Trade / Roster Building Thread pt 6 - let the waiting game commence

[Canes]

Who I want to see: Mzarek / Ned
Who I think we see: Ned / C. Ward

That would be one hell of a way to squander this organization's newly found good will with its fans

 

[Anton Babchuk]

it would kick so much ass if cam came back

the board meltdown alone would be worth the failed season

 

[My Special Purpose]

That would be one hell of a way to squander this organization's newly found good will with its fans

I'm getting really tired of typing this, so I'm probably going to take a few months off after July 1, but no, it won't squander anything.

The "organization's newly found good will with its fans" stems mostly from winning a lot of hockey games, having fun doing it and doing it a certain way to maximize value. If the team continues to win, the fans will continue to come. We spent the entire PK/JR era thinking that fans got attached to players and thus, keeping players around longer than they had any value in terms of winning hockey games was commonplace. If anything, we proved beyond any reasonable doubt that the old way of thinking *does not work*.

I refuse to sit here and believe that not employing Petr Mrazek will cause the Hurricanes to fall off a cliff competitively. I do believe, however, that if we sign Mrazek for "whatever he wants," it *will* damage our chances of being competitive over the span of his contract because he will no longer be providing value. I am perfectly willing to go into next season with whatever goalie tandem the Borg feels will bring the best value. I can't imagine it will be Nedeljkovic and Ward, but if it is, so be it.

This is a really tough concept for a lot of fans to handle, and a lot of people on this board are *truly* struggling with it. It's understandable. I mean, Patriots fans -- which I consider myself to be -- still think it's the end of the world when the Pats let go of a guy like Malcolm Butler or Wes Welker or Mike Vrabel or Chandler Jones or Richard Seymour or Adam Vinatieri. But it's not.

 

[A Star is Burns]

I'm getting really tired of typing this, so I'm probably going to take a few months off after July 1, but no, it won't squander anything.

The "organization's newly found good will with its fans" stems mostly from winning a lot of hockey games, having fun doing it and doing it a certain way to maximize value. If the team continues to win, the fans will continue to come. We spent the entire PK/JR era thinking that fans got attached to players and thus, keeping players around longer than they had any value in terms of winning hockey games was commonplace. If anything, we proved beyond any reasonable doubt that the old way of thinking *does not work*.

I refuse to sit here and believe that not employing Petr Mrazek will cause the Hurricanes to fall off a cliff competitively. I do believe, however, that if we sign Mrazek for "whatever he wants," it *will* damage our chances of being competitive over the span of his contract because he will no longer be providing value. I am perfectly willing to go into next season with whatever goalie tandem the Borg feels will bring the best value. I can't imagine it will be Nedeljkovic and Ward, but if it is, so be it.

This is a really tough concept for a lot of fans to handle, and a lot of people on this board are *truly* struggling with it. It's understandable. I mean, Patriots fans -- which I consider myself to be -- still think it's the end of the world when the Pats let go of a guy like Malcolm Butler or Wes Welker or Mike Vrabel or Chandler Jones or Richard Seymour or Adam Vinatieri. But it's not.

I mean, if Cam could come back and win a bunch of games, of course it wouldn't squander the good will. But he's a terrible goalie at this point. Luckily, I don't think the management group will be that stupid.

I agree with most of what you say otherwise, as I'm a Pats fan. I'd always rather get rid of a guy slightly too early or before he becomes bad value than keep guys for sentimental reasons. You're always better off paying a guy for what he will do rather than what he's done. And even if a player is highly drafted or signed, or will make you "look bad" when it happens, make the moves that you must make.

I do love that we appear to be running with some of these philosophies. I hope it works well for us.

 

[NotOpie]

Four things likely either have to or will happen, IMO. Aho will get signed somewhere between $8.75 million and $10 million, probably for at least 6 years. Marleau will ultimately be bought out but that won't help our cap. A defenseman will be traded, likely Faulk. And Scott Darling will get bought out. Those latter two moves are what would give the team flexibility in signing forward help.

If Williams comes back it is likely for near the same salary (or maybe slightly more). When all the math is taken care of, that gives us about $14.8 million in cap space with 9 forwards, 5 defensemen, and no goalies under contract. If JWilly doesn't come back it gives us a little more salary flexibility, but takes 50 points off of the board.

Sticking with that theme, let's assume it will cost around $5 million for two goalies. We now have $9.8 million for 6 or 7 players (depending on a 22 or 23 man roster). What this doesn't account for is the salary coming back if Faulk is traded for a forward.

 

[Highest Boss]

Great draft, great trade, okay. What is the status of Forslund/Tripp? It's not important. But it also is.

 

[Roboturner913]

According to Cap Friendly we have $21,011,667 in cap space, counting Marleau. A buyout of Darling saves us an additional $2,916,667. This equals $23,928,334

Aho $9 million
Willy $4 million (assuming he decides to play one more year)
McGinn $2.5 million (assuming we think he's worth keeping around)

This leaves us at $8.4 million to sign two goalies and 2-3 more skaters

Mac or Mrazek (or equivalent FA) = $4 million, probably
Ned = $925K (I think)
Necas = $860K
Maenelenan, McKegg, or Checker forward = less than $1 million, but you can only pick one
Fleury or Bean = around 800-900K

So basically, unless we trade away a big contract (only Faulk and Hamilton make sense) this is pretty much where we are. Whatever new faces we have in the lineup will be graduated Checkers.

This doesn't bother me too much, considering Faulk, Marleau and TVR expiring deals equal about 13.5 million opening up the following offseason. But still, wow, that escalated quickly.

 

[NotOpie]

According to Cap Friendly we have $21,011,667 in cap space, counting Marleau. A buyout of Darling saves us an additional $2,916,667. This equals $23,928,334

Aho $9 million
Willy $4 million (assuming he decides to play one more year)
McGinn $2.5 million (assuming we think he's worth keeping around)

This leaves us at $8.4 million to sign two goalies and 2-3 more skaters

Mac or Mrazek (or equivalent FA) = $4 million, probably
Ned = $925K (I think)
Necas = $860K
Maenelenan, McKegg, or Checker forward = less than $1 million, but you can only pick one
Fleury or Bean = around 800-900K

So basically, unless we trade away a big contract (only Faulk and Hamilton make sense) this is pretty much where we are. Whatever new faces we have in the lineup will be graduated Checkers.

This doesn't bother me too much, considering Faulk, Marleau and TVR expiring deals equal about 13.5 million opening up the following offseason. But still, wow, that escalated quickly.

My take is, essentially, we will HAVE to trade somebody to make the money work. That's what the Marleau thing did if he doesn't play this season for us.

EDIT: Don't get me wrong, I like the Marleau move. It just puts "managing the cap" into play for us.

 

[MinJaBen]

According to Cap Friendly we have $21,011,667 in cap space, counting Marleau. A buyout of Darling saves us an additional $2,916,667. This equals $23,928,334

Aho $9 million
Willy $4 million (assuming he decides to play one more year)
McGinn $2.5 million (assuming we think he's worth keeping around)

This leaves us at $8.4 million to sign two goalies and 2-3 more skaters

Mac or Mrazek (or equivalent FA) = $4 million, probably
Ned = $925K (I think)
Necas = $860K
Maenelenan, McKegg, or Checker forward = less than $1 million, but you can only pick one
Fleury or Bean = around 800-900K

So basically, unless we trade away a big contract (only Faulk and Hamilton make sense) this is pretty much where we are. Whatever new faces we have in the lineup will be graduated Checkers.

This doesn't bother me too much, considering Faulk, Marleau and TVR expiring deals equal about 13.5 million opening up the following offseason. But still, wow, that escalated quickly.

Bye Willie, McGinn and Faulk.

 

[GoldiFox]

Bye Willie, McGinn and Faulk.

Agreed. The Canes last forward addition will be either Williams or someone else after the Marleau trade. I'm hoping for someone a bit better.

Canes will have a lot of ammo going into the TDL. Maybe they can build momentum throughout the year, pickup a rental like Taylor Hall, and make a splash to convince them to stay.

Paying Brock McGinn $2.5 million is the same "overpayment to keep our guy" that is an issue with Mrazek. McGinn is a 4th liner on a team stacked to the rafters with talent trying to break into the NHL. Can't pay him more than $1-1.5 million. I think there is a chance he takes less to play under Brind'Amour though.

 

[spockBokk]

Is there any chance for temporary cap relief by placing both TVR and de Haan on LTIR? I suppose though you still have the problem of what to do with them and of their full cap hits, when they're both ready to play...

 

[DougieSmash]

So:

Nino/Aho/Willy
X/Staal/TT
Marleau/Necas/Martinook
Foegele/Wallmark/Maenalanen

 

[Chrispy]

Is there any chance for temporary cap relief by placing both TVR and de Haan on LTIR? I suppose though you still have the problem of what to do with them and of their full cap hits, when they're both ready to play...

Biggest issue I see with long-term IR would be guaranteeing they are out 10 games or 24 days to start the season.

The cap help only comes if the team makes a move to replace that cap hit. So it wouldn't just be a savings by putting them on LTIR, their cap hit stays until you go over the ceiling to replace the LTIR player.

I don't think it helps much in the case of Carolina unless Marleau is the one with the LTIR injury.

 

[SlavinAway]

So:

Nino/Aho/Willy
X/Staal/TT
Marleau/Necas/Martinook
Foegele/Wallmark/Maenalanen

You forgot Svech.

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

So:

Nino/Aho/Willy
X/Staal/TT
Marleau/Necas/Martinook
Foegele/Wallmark/Maenalanen

Marleau won’t be here. Man we are hurting if Necas comes in to be center. Willy is fantastic but not a 1st liner anymore.

 

[GoldiFox]

From The Athletic this morning:

As of Sunday, the Golden Knights were the only team exceeding the cap with 19 players under contract. Sources have indicated that some level of discussion has occurred regarding forwards Erik Haula and Jonathan Marchessault. Max Pacioretty, Paul Stastny and Nikita Gusev could also be in play. The Coyotes were interested in William Karlsson, but Vegas signed him to an eight-year deal with an average annual value of $5.9 million

Marchessault would be a good add but he has an 8 team no-trade list. $5 million x 5 more years. Right shot playmaking winger who put up 75 point two seasons ago.

Gusev would be an interesting "swing for the fences" add. Another right shot playmaking winger who put up 65 assists in 62 games in the KHL last year. Playmaker for Svech + Russian could be a winner.

 

[Staal Tactic]

What's this I hear about Duchesne? Meeting with 3 teams and the Canes being 1 of them???

 

[Svechhammer]

If we can get Duchene, that puts a lot less pressure on moving Necas over to center, and allows him to grow and develop on the wing. Also likely moves Staal to 3C and gives us some pretty good center depth. Once our draft picks are ready to come in, we would have silly depth down the middle.

Do that, trade Faulk to allow some youth to start bubbling up, and maybe bank on Necas being the Willy replacement, and... That looks like a pretty good team going in to next season, pending the goalie situation.

 

[DaveG]

What's this I hear about Duchesne? Meeting with 3 teams and the Canes being 1 of them???

I want to believe. Would definitely require moving out Faulk with zero retention and buying out Darling to even think about it though. But his 3 teams under consideration are probably Montreal, Nashville, and us.

 

[MinJaBen]

I want to believe. Would definitely require moving out Faulk with zero retention and buying out Darling to even think about it though. But his 3 teams under consideration are probably Montreal, Nashville, and us.

...and Willy gone. Better get Ned under contract, stat too, so we can buy Darling out.

 

[caniac247]

Anyone here any news on a possible goalie coach? Doesn't matter too much who the goalies are if there is no coach.

And can someone explain why our coaches are leaving early to go to Buffalo? I mean no one wants to live in Buffalo, hence, why half the state moved here.

 

[GoldiFox]

I want to believe. Would definitely require moving out Faulk with zero retention and buying out Darling to even think about it though. But his 3 teams under consideration are probably Montreal, Nashville, and us.

Is there any credible source linking Carolina to Duchene? I don't doubt Dundon could pay for him after spending $4 million on a 1st, but I also don't believe some rando Twitter rumor. The Canes would have to be really sold on Duchene to pay market rate ($8-10 million) for him.

I wonder if the Canes might be trying to shop Darling's Cap hit around to save some $$/Cap at the expense of a lesser asset than they got for Marleau. I also wonder at what point a 2-3 year deal for Aho around $5-6 million becomes an option for the Canes.

 

[GoldiFox]

Anyone here any news on a possible goalie coach? Doesn't matter too much who the goalies are if there is no coach.

And can someone explain why our coaches are leaving early to go to Buffalo? I mean no one wants to live in Buffalo, hence, why half the state moved here.

It doesn't make a ton of sense to bring in a goalie coach before you even know who your goalies are IMO. Canes don't have to rush to fill that spot.

Did Charlotte have a goalie coach? Might be an internal promotion if Nedeljkovic is sticking with the Canes. I know Curtis Joseph was hired as a "goalie consultant" to help out Ned.

 

[MinJaBen]

Is there any credible source linking Carolina to Duchene? I don't doubt Dundon could pay for him after spending $4 million on a 1st, but I also don't believe some rando Twitter rumor. The Canes would have to be really sold on Duchene to pay market rate ($8-10 million) for him.

I wonder if the Canes might be trying to shop Darling's Cap hit around to save some $$/Cap at the expense of a lesser asset than they got for Marleau. I also wonder at what point a 2-3 year deal for Aho around $5-6 million becomes an option for the Canes.

Everything I've read suggests that Aho wants a shorter deal, but the Canes want a max term deal and that is part of the holdup in the contract. I doubt they'd go for a bridge deal.

 

[Chrispy]

It doesn't make a ton of sense to bring in a goalie coach before you even know who your goalies are IMO. Canes don't have to rush to fill that spot.

Agreed. Plus, some goalies have personal coaches. Having a goalie coach position open could be attractive to a UFA goalie who can get his coach a job at the same time.