OT: All-Purpose Sports Thread IV - EDWIN BAT DROP EDITION (NFL, MLB, etc.)

[DrunkUncleDenis]

I'd keep Stroman for home starts... seems to excel at Skydome.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Estrada named as Game 1 starter.
I'm surprised... would have thought to go to the Stro show so he doesn't get too cold.

Stroman>Estrada>Happ>Sanchez would have been my Game 1-4 picks in that order.

I like it. Same order as the last series

 

[Langdon Alger]

I like our matchup with Cleveland. The bats have been hot. We've finally gone back to scoring runs with the small ball on top of the homers (ie: Tulo's triple).

The Indians are very good and have been underrated all year. It's no cake walk. They beat Boston because of Boston's pitching. We have better pitching if our starters give QS' and we don't have to rely on our bullpen. Injuries have really crippled us in the pen, especially if Liriano isn't back.

I think we just need to keep playing Blue Jays baseball. Get on top early and control the momentum of the game. That's how we beat Baltimore and Texas.

I don't watch the Jays all the time, but it seems to me that they reall rely on the homerun to score runs. You need to be able to manufacture runs other ways though. Walks, steals, sacrifice bunts and flys, singles, doubles, triples the odd time. Toronto has a lot of power, but they need to do other things too.

Donaldson is great at using the whole field and he has power too! Plus as we saw on the winning run he's got some hustle too!

What made the 92 and 93 teams so great is that they had everything. Pitching, defence, speed, hitting for power as well as timely hitting that didn't involve the long ball.

 

[GWNR]

I don't watch the Jays all the time, but it seems to me that they reall rely on the homerun to score runs. You need to be able to manufacture runs other ways though. Walks, steals, sacrifice bunts and flys, singles, doubles, triples the odd time. Toronto has a lot of power, but they need to do other things too.

Donaldson is great at using the whole field and he has power too! Plus as we saw on the winning run he's got some hustle too!

What made the 92 and 93 teams so great is that they had everything. Pitching, defence, speed, hitting for power as well as timely hitting that didn't involve the long ball.

That was my point. They did have homers, but they were also getting it done with the small ball too.

The won off a Donaldson double with the error that drove him in, for example.

Typically you'd expect a walk off homer, but it was a walk off error that drove in a double

The key to beating Cleveland may have to be the homer though. Their pitching is too good to string together hits.

 

[Langdon Alger]

That was my point. They did have homers, but they were also getting it done with the small ball too.

The won off a Donaldson double with the error that drove him in, for example.

Typically you'd expect a walk off homer, but it was a walk off error that drove in a double

The key to beating Cleveland may have to be the homer though. Their pitching is too good to string together hits.

Yup, I understood your point and you are right, I was just saying that from casually watching them over the last few years, they really rely on the homer, but in the series against Texas they were able to do other things as you mentioned.

Guys like Arancebia and Rasmus drove me nuts because even though they had some power, they had terrible batting averages and on base percentages, plus they struck out a ton. Those guys drove me nuts.

 

[GWNR]

Yup, I understood your point and you are right, I was just saying that from casually watching them over the last few years, they really rely on the homer, but in the series against Texas they were able to do other things as you mentioned.

Guys like Arancebia and Rasmus drove me nuts because even though they had some power, they had terrible batting averages and on base percentages, plus they struck out a ton. Those guys drove me nuts.

One thing that frustrated me was the last 9 AB's until Donaldson got up in the 9th they were just swinging for the fences.

They need to relax and realize they can hit singles, advance runners and score runs over 9 innings.

It will be an interesting thing to watch. Their approaches will be interesting.

 

[Langdon Alger]

One thing that frustrated me was the last 9 AB's until Donaldson got up in the 9th they were just swinging for the fences.

They need to relax and realize they can hit singles, advance runners and score runs over 9 innings.

It will be an interesting thing to watch. Their approaches will be interesting.

Yes, I noticed that as well, and you're right. They wanted the big homerun swing. In 93 when Carter hit the homerun, Molitor came up before him and singled. In an interview after he said he could have swung for the fences and they would have won, but he said that's not percentages. It was better to try to be smart and just try to get on base. He was a smart hitter though.

 

[DrunkUncleDenis]

One thing that frustrated me was the last 9 AB's until Donaldson got up in the 9th they were just swinging for the fences.

They need to relax and realize they can hit singles, advance runners and score runs over 9 innings.

It will be an interesting thing to watch. Their approaches will be interesting.

They looked like long swings because they were trying to hit a 100 mph fast ball. There is a reason the last few innings they all looked like that.. Bush was throwing gas.

 

[Caeldan]

They looked like long swings because they were trying to hit a 100 mph fast ball. There is a reason the last few innings they all looked like that.. Bush was throwing gas.

Yeah, but Bautista was definitely swinging for the fences in the 7th (I think it was) when he swung first pitch directly after Eddy took a walk from the same pitcher. That was just poor baseball and a bit representative of what they were doing for the remainder of the game with a few exceptions.

 

[DrunkUncleDenis]

Yeah, but Bautista was definitely swinging for the fences in the 7th (I think it was) when he swung first pitch directly after Eddy took a walk from the same pitcher. That was just poor baseball and a bit representative of what they were doing for the remainder of the game with a few exceptions.

Ya you're right. I actually would have really liked to see Joey put a bunt down in the 10th as well, with runners on first and second and none out. Just need to advance the runner for a sac fly by Martin or Tulo. Then again, I'm sure it has been so long since Bautista put down a bunt that he wouldn't be able to pull it off.

And we all know we play AL East baseball and the big hitters have never heard of bunting.

I'm just glad it didn't end up like game 6 of the ALCS.. no one out with a runner on third, and everyone is trying to go yard.

 

[DrEasy]

I like the Jays' chances against a Cleveland team that is missing Carrasco and Salazar (although I believe Salazar may be available in the bullpen).

The added rest should do wonders for Donaldson, Osuna, Martin, Bautista, Travis, Estrada.

 

[BonkTastic]

Ya you're right. I actually would have really liked to see Joey put a bunt down in the 10th as well, with runners on first and second and none out. Just need to advance the runner for a sac fly by Martin or Tulo. Then again, I'm sure it has been so long since Bautista put down a bunt that he wouldn't be able to pull it off.

And we all know we play AL East baseball and the big hitters have never heard of bunting.

I'm just glad it didn't end up like game 6 of the ALCS.. no one out with a runner on third, and everyone is trying to go yard.

I honestly think that bunting is the wrong decision 95% of the time at the MLB level. I hate bunting. I think that bunting is with almost no exceptions going to regularly be a terrible at bat.

But in the bottom of an extra inning and all you need is one run to win, and you have a chance to advance a runner to 3rd with no outs and big bats capable of hitting a deep fly ball for a walk-off sac fly, that's possibly the only time it's acceptable to bunt against a regular infield (I say "regular infield", because against weird & extreme infield shifts it can be an ok at-bat, depending on the score and inning)

 

[Langdon Alger]

I honestly think that bunting is the wrong decision 95% of the time at the MLB level. I hate bunting. I think that bunting is with almost no exceptions going to regularly be a terrible at bat.

But in the bottom of an extra inning and all you need is one run to win, and you have a chance to advance a runner to 3rd with no outs and big bats capable of hitting a deep fly ball for a walk-off sac fly, that's possibly the only time it's acceptable to bunt. That's the one exception.

When I was young and played softball my dad coached our team and made me bunt all the time. I hated it. Then again, I was good at it and I was crappy at everything else, so that's probably why.

 

[DrEasy]

But in the bottom of an extra inning and all you need is one run to win, and you have a chance to advance a runner to 3rd with no outs and big bats capable of hitting a deep fly ball for a walk-off sac fly, that's possibly the only time it's acceptable to bunt against a regular infield (I say "regular infield", because against weird & extreme infield shifts it can be an ok at-bat, depending on the score and inning)

Yes, that's pretty much what Win Expectancy says too ("The Book" on baseball has all these things calculated).

I guess other legit reasons to bunt would be if you're a pitcher, just a terrible hitter, good at bunting for a single (Zeke!), playing against a shift or against a bad defense (put the ball in play and see what happens).

I like the idea of bunting a baserunner over to 3B occasionally if the team is slumping offensively. Many ways to bring that run in... But bunting a baserunner over to 2B never made sense to me (I know the argument of putting the runner in scoring position, but I don't like it).

 

[Langdon Alger]

Yes, that's pretty much what Win Expectancy says too ("The Book" on baseball has all these things calculated).

I guess other legit reasons to bunt would be if you're a pitcher, just a terrible hitter, good at bunting for a single (Zeke!), playing against a shift or against a bad defense (put the ball in play and see what happens).

I like the idea of bunting a baserunner over to 3B occasionally if the team is slumping offensively. Many ways to bring that run in... But bunting a baserunner over to 2B never made sense to me (I know the argument of putting the runner in scoring position, but I don't like it).

It depends on the team and who is up. A leadoff hitter with speed getting on base could steal second, or the next hitter could move him over with a bunt, which sets the table for the 3rd hitter and you're into the big hitters in the lineup. With the Jays, it doesn't make much sense to have Donaldson, who is their second hitter bunt.

I think moving the runner over, or small ball is more of a national league thing than an American League thing though.

 

[BonkTastic]

Yes, that's pretty much what Win Expectancy says too ("The Book" on baseball has all these things calculated).

I guess other legit reasons to bunt would be if you're a pitcher, just a terrible hitter, good at bunting for a single (Zeke!), playing against a shift or against a bad defense (put the ball in play and see what happens).

I like the idea of bunting a baserunner over to 3B occasionally if the team is slumping offensively. Many ways to bring that run in... But bunting a baserunner over to 2B never made sense to me (I know the argument of putting the runner in scoring position, but I don't like it).

Man, I feel like Baseball was one of the few times as a kid where I was ahead of the curve on things. I always hated bunts, even as a little-league player in the 90's, when coaches were teaching "small ball" and "manufacturing runs" over getting on base. Hated it.

I think I'm a little extra sensitive about it based on my playing days, too... I was an elite defensive 1st baseman who hit for average and took a ton of walks (led various leagues multiple times in rep ball). I was the antithesis of what baseball wanted their 1st basemen to look like in the 90's - everyone wanted Marc McGwire, and I was more Andres Galarraga. I remember looking at my little-league lineup sheets that would have me hitting like 6th or 7th in the order in important games despite leading the team in OBP by something ridiculous like 80 points, and asking the coach why I wasn't hitting in the 2/3 or 5 spot (I didn't have the speed for leadoff), and the answer was always "you're not a power bat at 1st".

Anyways, yeah. Bunts. Always seemed to me like a stupid out to take, even back then, especially like you said to advance the runner to 2nd, and especially with one out! You move the guy to 2nd and then you have one out left to get him home? That's rarely going to work out for you. Baseball strategy seems to have caught up to where I was 20 years ago, which is great, but man was it frustrating to play through that era.


Also: I miss stirrups. I'd wear stirrups now, if I could without looking like a crazy person. High socks, pants cut just below the knees, and stirrups, haha. That should be regular casual attire!

 

[Langdon Alger]

Bunting a guy to second with one out? Not sure about that, but bunting him to second with no outs? Yeah, why not? He can score from second on a single. He can get to third on a stolen base, wild pitch, passed ball, long fly ball or a ground ball to the right side of the infield.

I'm not anti-bunting!

 

[BondraTime]

Le'veon Bell or David Johnson Rest of Season?

 

[YouGotAStuGoing]

At first glance, I'd say Johnson. His schedule looks a bit easier and he's got less mileage on him.

 

[DrEasy]

I think I'm a little extra sensitive about it based on my playing days, too... I was an elite defensive 1st baseman who hit for average and took a ton of walks (led various leagues multiple times in rep ball). I was the antithesis of what baseball wanted their 1st basemen to look like in the 90's - everyone wanted Marc McGwire, and I was more Andres Galarraga. I remember looking at my little-league lineup sheets that would have me hitting like 6th or 7th in the order in important games despite leading the team in OBP by something ridiculous like 80 points, and asking the coach why I wasn't hitting in the 2/3 or 5 spot (I didn't have the speed for leadoff), and the answer was always "you're not a power bat at 1st".

Lyle Overbay!

Anyways, yeah. Bunts. Always seemed to me like a stupid out to take, even back then, especially like you said to advance the runner to 2nd, and especially with one out! You move the guy to 2nd and then you have one out left to get him home? That's rarely going to work out for you. Baseball strategy seems to have caught up to where I was 20 years ago, which is great, but man was it frustrating to play through that era.

Unfortunately, MLB coaches still don't really apply sabermetrics much in practice. You'll still see plenty of bad decisions. But Terry Francona, especially through his bullpen usage during these playoffs, may finally show everyone the way.

 

[BonkTastic]

Unfortunately, MLB coaches still don't really apply Sabremetrics much in practice. You'll still see plenty of bad decisions. But Terry Francona, especially through his bullpen usage during these playoffs, may finally show everyone the way.

I'll be honest, I haven't followed much baseball in the past couple of years. Living in Indo for 3 years kind of put a stop to me following 4+ pro sports leagues, and I still haven't found the passion I used to have for the sport since the 'Spos left.

What is Francona doing re: pitching? Are we finally seeing coaches build strong & deep bullpens and limiting IP for the starters? I heard a friend of mine talking briefly about the value of bullpens with a parent at my kids school, is that a Francona thing? Because if so, that's a hell of a breath of fresh air. Bullpens have been overlooked for 50 years.

 

[DrEasy]

I'll be honest, I haven't followed much baseball in the past couple of years. Living in Indo for 3 years kind of put a stop to me following 4+ pro sports leagues, and I still haven't found the passion I used to have for the sport since the 'Spos left.

What is Francona doing re: pitching? Are we finally seeing coaches build strong & deep bullpens and limiting IP for the starters? I heard a friend of mine talking briefly about the value of bullpens with a parent at my kids school, is that a Francona thing? Because if so, that's a hell of a breath of fresh air. Bullpens have been overlooked for 50 years.

Francona has been bringing in his best reliever (Miller) in high-leverage situations, no matter when they happen during the game. It could be as early as the 5th inning or as late as the 9th.

Contrast this with Showalter, who left arguably the best reliever in all of MLB (Britton) on the bench in the wild card elimination game against Toronto, simply because he was waiting for a save situation. Thanks!

I think the fact that these two things are happening during the same playoffs and with dramatic results is going to really wake up teams into using their relievers properly. This season could be the end of coaches who are "slaves to the save".

The thing is, it really isn't that difficult. Bring in your best relievers in high leverage situations. Calculating leverage exactly may not be trivial (again based on win expectancy, which we talked about in the context of bunting), but just using the run differential in the game is a pretty good approximation. Bring in your best reliever when the game is close.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Ya you're right. I actually would have really liked to see Joey put a bunt down in the 10th as well, with runners on first and second and none out. Just need to advance the runner for a sac fly by Martin or Tulo. Then again, I'm sure it has been so long since Bautista put down a bunt that he wouldn't be able to pull it off.

And we all know we play AL East baseball and the big hitters have never heard of bunting.

I'm just glad it didn't end up like game 6 of the ALCS.. no one out with a runner on third, and everyone is trying to go yard.

I agree the first priority has to be to move the runner from 2nd to third, bunt, fly, hit to the right side.. manufacture the run.

Bautista has a flare for the dramatic and he believes in his abilities.

 

[Caeldan]

So Kershaw starts and gets the win in Game 1,comes in in relief and gets the save in Game 5...wonder if that's the first time a pitcher has book ended a playoff series

 

[MarkStone]

So Kershaw starts and gets the win in Game 1,comes in in relief and gets the save in Game 5...wonder if that's the first time a pitcher has book ended a playoff series

Bumgarner in the 2014 World Series off the top of my head.