All purpose draft-gripe thread

[ahmon]

"Patience is key with PWF"

Except for Kassian who we dumped at first opportunity and benched for every little mistake he made.

You can't take the patience is key approach and defend Benning on the Kassian move at the same time. Benning had 0 patience with Kassian or with Kenins for that matter who I also consider a PWF.

Kassian was here for "3" years. hes already 24 turning 25 a few months.

If anything the canucks were "too" patient with Kassian, we would have gotten a much better return if we traded him earlier.

 

[Verviticus]

we would have gotten a better return if we waived him

 

[Verviticus]

Well then, I feel like he'll be the next Brett Lindros.

The thing is, despite all the hand-wringing and "feeling" this and that, Virtanen, Nylander, Ritchie and Ehlers have proven nothing at the NHL level. Wait 3 or 4 years before we start playing the woulda, shoulda, coulda game.

agreed, all those people who wanted connor mcdavid over brock boeser had a 50% chance of being right and a 50% chance of being wrong

 

[ahmon]

Yeah. I had Ritchie 6 and still do.

I had Ritchie higher than Virtanen as well. A larger frame and better hockey sense.

But I had Nylander at 6 for sure.

I had my doubts about Nylander as well when watching him play in Sweden. But after watching him tear up the u-18s, the talent is simply too obvious.

At the time, even if you think his game "might not" fully translate in NA, he certainly had the highest "skill" level after the Big 5.

 

[VanJack]

Are there 'two tiers' of draft picks on the Canucks -- the guys drafted by Gillis and the ones drafted by the current regime?....looking like Shinkaruk, Jensen and Subban might all languish, while some of the recent picks will get a leg up....will be interesting to see what happens with Cassels.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

well i mean our best young player by a mile's opportunities are harder to come by than they should be, but he's certainly gotten enough of an opportunity to shine.

and what leg up has any benning pick gotten so far?

EDIT: what? did i just stick up for benning?

 

[Zarpan]

Are there 'two tiers' of draft picks on the Canucks -- the guys drafted by Gillis and the ones drafted by the current regime?....looking like Shinkaruk, Jensen and Subban might all languish, while some of the recent picks will get a leg up....will be interesting to see what happens with Cassels.

I don't think that narrative is correct. Benning has demonstrated a willingness to get rid of his prospect acquisitions (Forsling, Clendening), and perhaps too easily at that.

Shinkaruk/Jensen/Subban are all AHL eligible and are best served developing there anyway.

 

[RandV]

well i mean our best young player by a mile's opportunities are harder to come by than they should be, but he's certainly gotten enough of an opportunity to shine.

and what leg up has any benning pick gotten so far?

EDIT: what? did i just stick up for benning?

Well there's always McKenzie Stewart

 

[Jimson Hogarth*]

agreed, all those people who wanted connor mcdavid over brock boeser had a 50% chance of being right and a 50% chance of being wrong

This comparison couldn't be more

Comparing Ehlers to McDavid....I can't wait to watch Ehlers this year

 

[WTG]

Kassian was here for "3" years. hes already 24 turning 25 a few months.

If anything the canucks were "too" patient with Kassian, we would have gotten a much better return if we traded him earlier.

this administration game Kassian no chance.

Compare that to Vey who is barely a year younger. All the opportunity.

 

[ahmon]

this administration game Kassian no chance.

Compare that to Vey who is barely a year younger. All the opportunity.

this is vey's 2nd year here and he is already on the 4th line centering two energy players.

How in blue hell is that "all the opportunity"?

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

this is vey's 2nd year here and he is already on the 4th line centering two energy players.

How in blue hell is that "all the opportunity"?

he played his way down there from the first unit powerplay with two former art ross winners, remember?

 

[Verviticus]

This comparison couldn't be more

Comparing Ehlers to McDavid....I can't wait to watch Ehlers this year

your lack of understanding here couldn't be more but its more or less what i've come to expect from you

 

[geebaan]

he played his way down there from the first unit powerplay with two former art ross winners, remember?

all of this

 

[DL44]

he played his way down there from the first unit powerplay with two former art ross winners, remember?

This narrative is old and false... But keeps getting rerun.
Vey earned that spot with his decent preseason..
And more importantly he proved the coach's decision to be the correct one as the PP scored 9g in the first 10 game segment of the season.
Then he was pulled from it for not producing and drying up... So where was the 'gift'?

The PP never produced as many goals over any 10gm segment as it did in the first 10 gms with Vey on it. Supporting it was less so a gift, but rather a smart coaching move based on what they had observed in camp and in preseason.

Many other things to grind on then this.

 

[vanuck]

Don't know if this has been talked about before, but I found this CA article an interesting starting point on basic tenets of good drafting. Agree or disagree?

http://canucksarmy.com/2015/6/26/a-graphic-guide-to-succeeding-at-the-nhl-draft

Excuse the innuendos in there... Graphic Comments' stuff is always a good read though.

Edit: And the graph for point #4 sound familiar??

 

[Bourne Endeavor]

This narrative is old and false... But keeps getting rerun.
Vey earned that spot with his decent preseason..
And more importantly he proved the coach's decision to be the correct one as the PP scored 9g in the first 10 game segment of the season.
Then he was pulled from it for not producing and drying up... So where was the 'gift'?

The PP never produced as many goals over any 10gm segment as it did in the first 10 gms with Vey on it. Supporting it was less so a gift, but rather a smart coaching move based on what they had observed in camp and in preseason.

Many other things to grind on then this.

He did no such thing. I won't deny Vey had a pretty solid preseason, but nowhere close to being gifted the amount of minutes he was. You're also given him far too much credit. Tanner Glass would score if paired with the Sedins. Vey only scored 4 powerplay goals in 22 games, then went on to never score another one. This doesn't warrant bragging nor his continual use on the first unit. I have no idea where you are getting this "never produced as many goals" rhetoric.

 

[Intangibos]

I wish Kassian not being given a chance resembled Vey's not being given a chance. If playing 22 games with the Sedins on the PP isn't being given a chance, that's sad.

 

[David Bruce Banner]

agreed, all those people who wanted connor mcdavid over brock boeser had a 50% chance of being right and a 50% chance of being wrong

So, you're saying that Nylander has a 50% chance of becoming McDavid?

 

[Vankiller Whale]

So, you're saying that Nylander has a 50% chance of becoming McDavid?

No, he's saying that just because neither prospect has peaked in the NHL yet doesn't mean that they have the same probability of reaching the same level

 

[ahmon]

I wish Kassian not being given a chance resembled Vey's not being given a chance. If playing 22 games with the Sedins on the PP isn't being given a chance, that's sad.

But Kassian never played with the twins. oh wait...

right after we traded for Kassian, he was inserted in the top 6 right beside Kesler.

Kassian essentially played on both our top 2 lines....

 

[racerjoe]

But Kassian never played with the twins. oh wait...

right after we traded for Kassian, he was inserted in the top 6 right beside Kesler.

Kassian essentially played on both our top 2 lines....

You forgot to mention he excelled the two times he played with the twins, for multiple games too.

 

[Intangibos]

He was placed in the top 6 when we acquired him 4 years ago when he was a rookie, and he didn't excel immediately? Gosh guys I guess Kassian really is a bust, since most players peak in their rookie season.

 

[DL44]

He did no such thing. I won't deny Vey had a pretty solid preseason, but nowhere close to being gifted the amount of minutes he was. You're also given him far too much credit. Tanner Glass would score if paired with the Sedins. Vey only scored 4 powerplay goals in 22 games, then went on to never score another one. This doesn't warrant bragging nor his continual use on the first unit. I have no idea where you are getting this "never produced as many goals" rhetoric.

Talking about the unit. The most productive it was in the first 10 game segment when it included Vey... Not saying solely because of Vey.. but he proved to be a fit and showed he deserved to be placed there. But then he lost some confidence/teams adjusted.. and he was rightfully moved off the unit.

PPG, league rank
10 gms: 9, 4th
20 gms: 13, 15th
30 gms: 17, 18th
41 gms: 24, 18th
50 gms: 28, 20th
60 gms: 33, 20th
70 gms: 35, 23rd

Also if scoring with the twins was so easy, how did others do in his place? surely every one must of topped Vey's goal production in g/PP min.

I have NO issues with the way Vey's minutes were allocated as the season began. He had a good preseason, he began the season helping the 1st unit PP produce, so naturally you would give him mins to see how else you can utilize him in the lineup and where he fits... and then they peeled back his minutes appropriately as his play dictated and as the lines solidified.
Don't forget Richardson and Kassian's half seasons necessitated his use. Some probably consider that gifting him a roster spot as well.


On the flip side... Kassian was injured for preseason and got off to a very slow start in his first 10 games, before starting to look like his normal self... Don't know how he should of been favored over Vey on the PP to begin the season...
By the time Kassian was getting going, Vey played himself off the unit anyway... to so this idea that Vey somehow block his opportunity is also unfair.
Whatever blocked Kassian from the PP, it wasn't Vey... but people look back at the stats and see the minutes Vey got to the start the season, and look at Kassian's mins then falsely jump to the conclusion of - SEE! He Was GIFTED over Kassian!

Like i said.. MANY other things to gripe about other than this.

 

[ahmon]

He was placed in the top 6 when we acquired him 4 years ago when he was a rookie, and he didn't excel immediately? Gosh guys I guess Kassian really is a bust, since most players peak in their rookie season.

ironically, vey was also a "rookie" last year.....

And Kassian didn't just play in the top 6 in his rookie year, he had multiple chances in later season. Never seemed to consistently play well.