Confirmed with Link: All-Purpose Coyotes Arena Talk: [Update] Land Auction Cancelled, Meruelo waiving ownership rights.

[PainForShane]

I agree, but I don't blame AM, at all. He came into a tough spot and did everything right and the organization as a whole was moving in the right direction. Then TED happened. Sure you can blame AM for that, but the NHL knew it could fail because of previous outcomes in other cities. IF TED had succeeded I would venture to guess you and others would be praising AM and the organization. I think the NHL started to realize that the Coyote's could very well be a playoff team as early as next year and did not in no circumstances want a NHL playoff game at the Mullet. There is a long list of people to blame over the years but AM would be at the bottom of my list.

Jakey, lets be fair here.

If TED had succeeded (and the arena built on time or close to it), ABSOLUTELY I would be praising AM and the organization. But, he completely messed up what I would consider a shoe-in campaign and he was also massively outspent, which to me is inexcusable. He should have spent 10s of millions of dollars on the campaign at least, it was the most important thing he needed to accomplish during his tenure as the Yotes owner.

So that's why I blame AM. From the outside anyway, he and his family seem completely incompetent.

Imo if he were a little bit competent then the TED would've passed, the team would be in Tempe for the long term, and yes, I'd be praising him. But none of that happened, so here we are

 

[Jakey53]

You lost me with "I don't blame AM, at all." There's ONE person who couldn't keep the team playing in Glendale until he had a new arena built. That's the ONLY reason the team is gone. Bettman said it in the damn press conference. He paid what was it, $25 plus mil to get the ASU arena up to NHL standards and had to commit to x amount of years. You're telling me he couldn't have thrown Glendale $25 mil to entice them to sign a short term deal? Horse shit. Meruelo's arrogance is the only reason the team is gone. f*** that guy and his son. May they choke on that billion they made from their grift.

Bettman stated that AM DID NOT WANT TO SELL. Bettman said it was not fair to the players playing at the Mullet, and convinced AM to sell, and the rest is history. If you blame everything on AM, well, that is your prerogative. Glendale wanted a long term lease, not a little bitty $25 mil. to sign a short term deal.

 

[Jakey53]

Jakey, lets be fair here.

If TED had succeeded (and the arena built on time or close to it), ABSOLUTELY I would be praising AM and the organization. But, he completely messed up what I would consider a shoe-in campaign and he was also massively outspent, which to me is inexcusable. He should have spent 10s of millions of dollars on the campaign at least, it was the most important thing he needed to accomplish during his tenure as the Yotes owner.

So that's why I blame AM. From the outside anyway, he and his family seem completely incompetent.

Imo if he were a little bit competent then the TED would've passed, the team would be in Tempe for the long term, and yes, I'd be praising him. But none of that happened, so here we are

It wasn't a shoe in campaign. This isn't the first time this sort of vote did not succeed in the NHL circles. This was a landslide defeat, and I'm not sure if anything would have changed the result. Everyone has their own opinion about AM, and that is fine, but calling him incompetent he is not. AM bought into a mess, a 25 year old mess.

 

[Jakey53]

IF AM does not succeed let's see who is going to step forward to buy the team AND build an arena. Ex employee Rich Nairn, AND Morgan said there is multiple people with interest. In 25 years only AM came forward and gave the team stability, and I don't think the NHL were the ones who found him. NHL couldn't find anyone, but now all of a sudden there is supposedly multiple groups interested. With how the political climate is in Arizona I doubt very much we see anyone step forward in the foreseeable future.

 

[Snarky Coyote]

I can make both arguments about AM at the moment. He did some things really well and was a victim of fate, and he did other things really poorly and is a victim of himself. I think the land auction will be very informative to see how committed he is to redemption. I really don't think he will be able to pull it off, but I have and will again frequently be wrong.

 

[GhostofTommyBolin]

Sorry, you are 100% wrong on this. Not sure whether you are making up this 'fact' and / or where you heard this from but it is not true.

You can and probably should have googled this yourself. You will find:
NHL 2023-24 team attendance at hockeydb.com

NHL Attendance | Hockey-Reference.com

www.hockey-reference.com

and through March (when every home game sold out): NHL Attendance Report 2023-24 - Sound Of Hockey

Anyway any actual source you find will clearly show AZ sold out every home game last year (and also the year before, meaning Yotes sold out every home game in the tiny arena even with tripled ticket prices). Not sure why you or anyone else is arguing this.

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You can post all the graphs you want. I got calls and texts most game days as well as seeing social media posts that tickets were available. And the nights I went, there were empty seats unless it was against certain teams.

It's all irrelevant now, because they're gone. Bottom line is, they played two seasons in a 4600-seat arena near the exalted "real fans" and it wasn't full every night.

We can go round and round about location, ownership, on-ice performance, and every other thing you can drum up. Bottom line is, the Coyotes were always the red-headed foster kid in town that nobody wanted.

 

[Coyotedroppings]

Bettman stated that AM DID NOT WANT TO SELL. Bettman said it was not fair to the players playing at the Mullet, and convinced AM to sell, and the rest is history. If you blame everything on AM, well, that is your prerogative. Glendale wanted a long term lease, not a little bitty $25 mil. to sign a short term deal.

Very true, it's never, or at least rarely one thing (except when it comes to lack of fan support ). Bettman may have decided any potential issue with the NHLPA wasn't worth staying in the dink rink for and/or, he may have been looking at avoiding embarrassment with a potential playoff in the dink rink, most likely a combo of both. BUT, the TED debacle WAS THE DEATH KNELL for Yotes 1.0, of this there is no doubt. Why do you think I was so livid and went into full asshat ridicule at that point?

Were the asshats overconfident? Did they already have their eyes on N. Phx. and foolishly decided to hold off on respectable campaign funding because they'd already moved on from Tempe at that point? We'll never know, it no longer matters, but again the TED debacle was the death knell.

 

[Coyotedroppings]

It wasn't a shoe in campaign. This isn't the first time this sort of vote did not succeed in the NHL circles. This was a landslide defeat, and I'm not sure if anything would have changed the result. Everyone has their own opinion about AM, and that is fine, but calling him incompetent he is not. AM bought into a mess, a 25 year old mess.

Given the circumstances and the parameters that are the Yotes and the arena situation, he's incompetent extraordinaire! You may not be, but I am CERTAIN, that had he got the word out, we'd still have a team and remediation would be nearing completion, if not complete and the AM would be money ahead.

IF AM does not succeed let's see who is going to step forward to buy the team AND build an arena. Ex employee Rich Nairn, AND Morgan said there is multiple people with interest. In 25 years only AM came forward and gave the team stability, and I don't think the NHL were the ones who found him. NHL couldn't find anyone, but now all of a sudden there is supposedly multiple groups interested. With how the political climate is in Arizona I doubt very much we see anyone step forward in the foreseeable future.

Nobody in their right mind would touch this market for hockey, hence we get asshats.

 

[Coyotedroppings]

The poetic princess strikes again! I agree with a bit of this, but he and the overall lack of coverage of the team was part of the problem. Apparently he (like so many) seems to think little of the game, until playoff time.

 

[TheLegend]

You lost me with "I don't blame AM, at all." There's ONE person who couldn't keep the team playing in Glendale until he had a new arena built. That's the ONLY reason the team is gone. Bettman said it in the damn press conference. He paid what was it, $25 plus mil to get the ASU arena up to NHL standards and had to commit to x amount of years. You're telling me he couldn't have thrown Glendale $25 mil to entice them to sign a short term deal? Horse shit. Meruelo's arrogance is the only reason the team is gone. f*** that guy and his son. May they choke on that billion they made from their grift.

How many times does this have to be said.......

No amount of money was going to convince Glendale to agree to any lease less than 12 years. Meruelo offered a 3 year plus 2 year option to stay. Glendale said no.

Glendale was NOT a viable solution long term.

Full stop.

 

[RemoAZ]

The poetic princess strikes again! I agree with a bit of this, but he and the overall lack of coverage of the team was part of the problem. Apparently he (like so many) seems to think little of the game, until playoff time.

It cracks me up how he's morphed into looking like a creepy grandmother.

 

[TheLegend]

Very true, it's never, or at least rarely one thing (except when it comes to lack of fan support ). Bettman may have decided any potential issue with the NHLPA wasn't worth staying in the dink rink for and/or, he may have been looking at avoiding embarrassment with a potential playoff in the dink rink, most likely a combo of both. BUT, the TED debacle WAS THE DEATH KNELL for Yotes 1.0, of this there is no doubt. Why do you think I was so livid and went into full asshat ridicule at that point?

Were the asshats overconfident? Did they already have their eyes on N. Phx. and foolishly decided to hold off on respectable campaign funding because they'd already moved on from Tempe at that point? We'll never know, it no longer matters, but again the TED debacle was the death knell.

As far as the NHL and PA were concerned, it was the uncertainty on how long it was going to take Meruelo to get an arena done.... (if at all). PLUS..... all the other issues we have been hearing about lately. Biggest being they did not have an immediate "Plan B" to pivot to right away.

And by right away I mean something that could have shovels in the ground within six months. Yes.... they put the application in for trust land just a month later following the TED vote, but it was basically starting over from scratch. They're just getting to buying the land now, a year later.

 

[RemoAZ]

How many times does this have to be said.......

No amount of money was going to convince Glendale to agree to any lease less than 12 years. Meruelo offered a 3 year plus 2 year option to stay. Glendale said no.

Glendale was NOT a viable solution long term.

Full stop.

$25 mil would have went right to their bottom line. If you believe they would have turned that down along with losing 41 dates instead of signing a short term deal, well, I'll just say I couldn't disagree more. Whatever Meruelo was offering, I'd bet the house it was as low ball as they come. He simply didn't believe they'd kick him out, another thing we heard from his own lips. Unlike you, I don't believe any of their agenda driven, hardship "facts".

 

[TheLegend]

$25 mil would have went right to their bottom line. If you believe they would have turned that down along with losing 41 dates instead of signing a short term deal, well, I'll just say I couldn't disagree more. Whatever Meruelo was offering, I'd bet the house it was as low ball as they come. He simply didn't believe they'd kick him out, another thing we heard from his own lips. Unlike you, I don't believe any of their agenda driven, hardship "facts".

What part of the fact Glendale did not want a third arena to compete with do you not understand?? Plus Meruelo was also being asked to pour money into the arena on top of the lease.

Phoenix wasn't keen on the idea either hence using Sky Harbor as the excuse to stop TED. Tempe1st got a lot of direct (and indirect) help from sources within Phoenix. Some of these oddball groups who jumped on their bandwagon were ALL BASED IN PHOENIX.

 

[Dirty Old Man]

Phoenix wasn't keen on the idea either hence using Sky Harbor as the excuse to stop TED. Tempe1st got a lot of direct (and indirect) help from sources within Phoenix. Some of these oddball groups who jumped on their bandwagon were ALL BASED IN PHOENIX.

I also noticed Thursday that one of the concessions in the new section of Sky Harbor Terminal 4 (new D Gates) is none other than Changing Hands Bookstore. I just rolled my eyes.

 

[Coyotedroppings]

As far as the NHL and PA were concerned, it was the uncertainty on how long it was going to take Meruelo to get an arena done.... (if at all). PLUS..... all the other issues we have been hearing about lately. Biggest being they did not have an immediate "Plan B" to pivot to right away.

And by right away I mean something that could have shovels in the ground within six months. Yes.... they put the application in for trust land just a month later following the TED vote, but it was basically starting over from scratch. They're just getting to buying the land now, a year later.

Which meeting/meetings were you a fly on the wall at?

Edit: Funny though, no plan B, what with "several sites" that they once claimed to have.

 

[Coyotedroppings]

Just realized this one doesn't have (some do) "Phoenix" under "Coyotes." I would think we can all agree that another arena in the valley is one too many, if we're not looking through the eyes of rabid Coyote fans.

 

[The Feckless Puck]

Lots of exhuming of horse corpses going on right now. That made some sort of sense when we had a team. Now, it's just wasted effort.

The auction is the only reason to keep this board open. In 11 days, we'll have something to talk about.

 

[Coyotedroppings]

Lots of exhuming of horse corpses going on right now. That made some sort of sense when we had a team. Now, it's just wasted effort.

The auction is the only reason to keep this board open. In 11 days, we'll have something to talk about.

Upon necropsy a week or two ago, I confirmed the cause of death. While it's true there is no rational need to exhume, it does seem to comfort those in denial.

 

[TheLegend]

I also noticed Thursday that one of the concessions in the new section of Sky Harbor Terminal 4 (new D Gates) is none other than Changing Hands Bookstore. I just rolled my eyes.

That was known about before the vote.

 

[TheLegend]

$25 mil would have went right to their bottom line. If you believe they would have turned that down along with losing 41 dates instead of signing a short term deal, well, I'll just say I couldn't disagree more. Whatever Meruelo was offering, I'd bet the house it was as low ball as they come. He simply didn't believe they'd kick him out, another thing we heard from his own lips. Unlike you, I don't believe any of their agenda driven, hardship "facts".

Unlike me…. Who isn’t still clinging to the fallacy that Glendale was going to play nice and let Meruelo stay there until he got a competing arena built.

That’s the fact you choose to ignore.

 

[TheLegend]

Which meeting/meetings were you a fly on the wall at?

Edit: Funny though, no plan B, what with "several sites" that they once claimed to have.

They may have had sites.

Meruelo mentioned in one of his rare interviews he had at least two he was looking at before settling on Tempe.

But once he decided on Tempe, whatever other places he was working on were dropped completely. Call it asshattery or arrogance or whatever label you want to stick on it…. he stopped. Turned out to be a big mistake.

 

[Jakey53]

They may have had sites.

Meruelo mentioned in one of his rare interviews he had at least two he was looking at before settling on Tempe.

But once he decided on Tempe, whatever other places he was working on were dropped completely. Call it asshattery or arrogance or whatever label you want to stick on it…. he stopped. Turned out to be a big mistake.

Hindsight is great, isn't it. I'm sure all of us great business men on this board, and/or others who think they are, never had mistakes or regrets looking back.

 

[Coyotedroppings]

They may have had sites.

Meruelo mentioned in one of his rare interviews he had at least two he was looking at before settling on Tempe.

But once he decided on Tempe, whatever other places he was working on were dropped completely. Call it asshattery or arrogance or whatever label you want to stick on it…. he stopped. Turned out to be a big mistake.

Fixed your first and second words

 

[Bonsai Tree]

The NHL is at a bit of a crossroads at this time. The league looks at the topography and notes that its monopoly on the Canadian sports dollar is slowly eroding. In the US, the league has little traction outside of the big markets.

I would, in Bettman’s shoes, enter into a warm, close relationship with the NHLPA as close cooperation will be needed in the decade ahead. Sacrificing our market, a flashpoint for the NHLPA, was a necessary first step.

Second step would be getting all broadcasts on free TV and streaming. Sacrifice short time revenue for long time increases in popularity. Also would reward Canadians for their loyalty.

Third, develop a true grudge rivalry between LA and Boston or NY which captures the imagination of US fans, like BOS-NY in baseball or Dallas-WASH in football. This can be done w good scheduling.