Rumor: All about Alex DeBrincat -possible trade

[saska sault]

With PLD getting 8.5 and the cap rising, the market is gonna be set pretty soon. Guys like DBC, Lindholm, etc. who are not quite PPG players are going to draw 8 million/year.

Like I said before, within a few years you are probably going to see high-end third liners making 5 million per season like the pre-cap days. If the cap hits 100 million within the next 8 years (and it likely will) you can have everyone on your first two lines making 8 million and still have 52 million for the rest of the roster.

The Wings are eventually going to have to start paying actual market value for impact players.

Thats my view also, Copp's contract is going to be the normal for a #2/3 C and same for Chiarot. People hate the deals at the time but look a few years down the road and its normal. Hence why they were slightly over paid in some's opinions when the ink was still wet. Plus, its not our money.. you dont want to spend recklessly because their is a cap but teams always find ways to move contracts if needed. Spend away.

 

[Oddbob]

With PLD getting 8.5 and the cap rising, the market is gonna be set pretty soon. Guys like DBC, Lindholm, etc. who are not quite PPG players are going to draw 8 million/year.

Like I said before, within a few years you are probably going to see high-end third liners making 5 million per season like the pre-cap days. If the cap hits 100 million within the next 8 years (and it likely will) you can have everyone on your first two lines making 8 million and still have 52 million for the rest of the roster.

The Wings are eventually going to have to start paying actual market value for impact players.

I agree with what you are saying. DeBrincat is not worth as much as Larkin though. Larkin has just as much offence and is much better defensively.

 

[Ulysses31]

The rebuild has been stagnant for a couple years now, and seems to be going nowhere. A 3 time 40 goal scorer falls into our lap and wants to play for us, but Yzerman is hesitant to get a trade done? Is he even interested in making the playoffs...? It's getting ridiculous to be honest, and eventually people will lose their patience. Because he's a Wings legend, fans love to praise him as the saviour, and love to say thinks like "TRUST THE YZERPLAN!!".

If he doesn't trade for DeBrincat, I don't even know what he's trying to do. I guess he just wants to miss the playoffs for 15 years in a row before actually attempting to build a good team? He's been at it for over 4 years now and the team still sucks. At what point is it acceptable to "question the YZERPLAN?" I think that time is now.

not 1000% percent against debrincat but if the price is anything like what ottawa paid for him it would be a mistake. dont want to give away key picks and prospects to help ottawa get rid of a contract they don't want. Also i dont think he is worth or deserves any more than the bratt contract.

 

[SimonEdvinssonAtSix]

When was the last time the Wings made the playoffs? Second longest active streak in the league now, and 11th longest ALL TIME. You can't blame some fans for getting impatient.

Without a major signing or trade, the team is still at least three years away from the playoffs, and that's only if Kasper winds up being a legit 2C in that timeframe.

2 more years without playoffs ties the team for 4th all time longest streak. Yeah, that's definitely something to be upset about.

A lot of words used to address nothing I posted about.

Detail the stagnation of Yzermans tenure as GM, spanning YEARS.

 

[Redwing66]

Let’s see what Stevie does - this year should be a huge jump forward. I think after tomorrow there is going to be some excitement.

 

[Gniwder]

A lot of words used to address nothing I posted about.

Detail the stagnation of Yzermans tenure as GM, spanning YEARS.

4 YEARS, NO PLAYOFFS. Happy now?

Definitely will go 5 YEARS without a major trade this offseason, possibly more than 6 YEARS.

We are nowhere near Steve's leash even needing to be mentioned. In rebuilding siutations any GM needs a lot more leash than you would give a GM in a win now situation.

How many years does he get to use Kenny as an excuse? Most rebuilds happen a lot faster, the Wings are already on one of the longest streaks without playoffs.

 

[eojsmada]

As much as I would like to see you guys start moving up into the playoffs, Yzerman seemed like he was 50/50 on whether the team would get there, for the 23-24 season. That being said, I think if the current amount (#17/2nd rounder/Zadina) is indeed the offer for DeBrincat, I think it's foolish to not do it. That being said, even with DeBrincat, Detroit will still struggle until guys like Raymond fully establish themselves as legit scoring threats and can push Perron to the 2nd unit or off of it altogether. The young kids need to really start showing up, and until they do it's just going to take time to get where you guys want to be. Sadly, this is the state of the team that Holland left Yzerman in. It was just an absolute mess with a lot of dead weight. But this past year was exciting to watch the Wings start to be competitive. As long as you guys keep winning more games than the previous year, you should be fine. I can understand the lack of patience, but it just is what it is, unfortunately.

 

[SirloinUB]

When was the last time the Wings made the playoffs? Second longest active streak in the league now, and 11th longest ALL TIME. You can't blame some fans for getting impatient.

Without a major signing or trade, the team is still at least three years away from the playoffs, and that's only if Kasper winds up being a legit 2C in that timeframe.

2 more years without playoffs ties the team for 4th all time longest streak. Yeah, that's definitely something to be upset about.

What do the years before yzerman have to do with how long yzerman’s leash is?

Answer they don’t.

He’s been here for 4 seasons.

Functionally yzerman’s playoff drought with the Detroit red wings is completely unnoteworthy. Get a grip man.

More importantly half of his draft picks are still 20 or younger and have barely had a chance to develop nevermind play a full rookie season.

You got some serious Pierre Dorion “the rebuild is over!!!” vibes. How’d that work out for Ottawa?

Oh ya they missed playoffs. For the record, I like their overall rebuild but the point is you don’t get to choose when it’s over.

Shit the real irony is Ottawa did what everybody wants Detroit to do: sell multiple 1st and 2nd round picks for Debrincat and a top 4 D(Chychrun) and still missed playoffs (after adding Giroux as well).

Crazier still, their rebuild was probably further along when they made theses big swing trades with:
Tkachuk > Zadina
Stuetzle > Raymond
Sanderson > Edvinsson
Norris > Veleno
Batherson > Berggren
(Obviously Seider over any D favours Detroit).

 

[jfrank21]

Do you know how much Cap space we have? Also, since you're obviously an expert, what is DeBrincat worth, and what would you, jfrank21, be willing to pay him on an extension? I'm curious.

I guarantee that he wants to be paid more than the 7 mil a season that I think he's worth. He's not a difference maker for a Stanley Cup contender. I get that he can score when it's easy, but to me he's not going to get it done when it would really count. He's not just undersized, he's tiny and he cant defend.

Now, I will say this, if Stevie can get him for a 2nd and Zadina..and he wants to re-sign for less than 8 mil a season...sure, Im interested. I just dont see that happening realisticly.

 

[Rolo Tomassi]

I guarantee that he wants to be paid more than the 7 mil a season that I think he's worth. He's not a difference maker for a Stanley Cup contender. I get that he can score when it's easy, but to me he's not going to get it done when it would really count. He's not just undersized, he's tiny and he cant defend.

Now, I will say this, if Stevie can get him for a 2nd and Zadina..and he wants to re-sign for less than 8 mil a season...sure, Im interested. I just dont see that happening realisticly.

I agree with all of this.

I would take him because we need goal scoring. But, realistically, he’s not the type who will get it done in the playoffs. If, and it is a big if, we ever have the personnel to push him down the lineup where he gets easier matchups and can be deployed as a PP specialist, that would be amazing.

 

[Henkka]

How many years does he get to use Kenny as an excuse? Most rebuilds happen a lot faster, the Wings are already on one of the longest streaks without playoffs.

Most successful rebuilds have successful draft picks waiting in the organization already. When the new GM will start there's a base.

Which GM has had worse starting base with highest 1st round picks than Yzerman?

Svechnikov, Cholowski, Rasmussen, Zadina.

3 busts and 1 proably decent middle6 forward.

 

[SCD]

With PLD getting 8.5 and the cap rising, the market is gonna be set pretty soon. Guys like DBC, Lindholm, etc. who are not quite PPG players are going to draw 8 million/year.

Like I said before, within a few years you are probably going to see high-end third liners making 5 million per season like the pre-cap days. If the cap hits 100 million within the next 8 years (and it likely will) you can have everyone on your first two lines making 8 million and still have 52 million for the rest of the roster.

The Wings are eventually going to have to start paying actual market value for impact players.

Most new contracts for first line players, especially centers, are based on percentage of the cap. The floor for post-RFA 1C centers is greater than 10%. Expect the actual dollar amount separation from first line players and all others to actually increase with the rise in total cap.

 

[Henkka]

With PLD getting 8.5 and the cap rising, the market is gonna be set pretty soon. Guys like DBC, Lindholm, etc. who are not quite PPG players are going to draw 8 million/year.

Like I said before, within a few years you are probably going to see high-end third liners making 5 million per season like the pre-cap days. If the cap hits 100 million within the next 8 years (and it likely will) you can have everyone on your first two lines making 8 million and still have 52 million for the rest of the roster.

Of course, everything is just relative.

These 8.0-8.5M deals under 83-90M cap are the new numbers, just how 5.5M-6.0M deals were same under 55-60M cap. ~10% share.

Middle6 players like Dan Cleary earned 2.9M under 59M cap, ~5% of cap. Those guys will get 5M under 100M cap. Just math.

 

[Snuggs]

Of course, everything is just relative.

These 8.0-8.5M deal under 83-90M cap are the new numbers, just how 5.5M-6.0M deal were same under 55-60M cap. ~10% share.

Middle6 players like Dan Cleary earner 2.9M under 59M cap, 5% of cap. Those guys will get 5M under 100M cap. Just math.

Top players like the very top, will be pushing 15 million per year soon.

McDavids/Matthews extensions will be incredible.

 

[jkutswings]

4 YEARS, NO PLAYOFFS. Happy now?

Definitely will go 5 YEARS without a major trade this offseason, possibly more than 6 YEARS.


How many years does he get to use Kenny as an excuse? Most rebuilds happen a lot faster, the Wings are already on one of the longest streaks without playoffs.

Yzerman was named GM on April 19, 2019. Take another look at how little there was to work with and how many contracts had to come off the books. Do you honestly believe THIS roster could have been turned around into a playoff team built on new players in less time?

2018-19 Detroit Red Wings Roster, Stats, Injuries, Scores, Results, Shootouts | Hockey-Reference.com

Check out the latest Detroit Red Wings Roster, Stats, Injuries, Scores, Results, Shootouts and more on Hockey-Reference.com

www.hockey-reference.com

 

[Gyldenlove]

4 YEARS, NO PLAYOFFS. Happy now?

Definitely will go 5 YEARS without a major trade this offseason, possibly more than 6 YEARS.


How many years does he get to use Kenny as an excuse? Most rebuilds happen a lot faster, the Wings are already on one of the longest streaks without playoffs.

The Penguins were out of the playoffs for 4 consecutive years, during that period they never got 70 points in a season, and landed 4 consecutive top 2 picks.

The Blackhawks were out of the playoffs for 9 out of 10 seasons, during that period they had 3 top 3 draft picks.

The Kings were out of the playoffs for 6 years in a row. They landed 3 top 5 picks.

Most rebuilds are in fact at least 4 years out of the playoffs, and mostly tend to have better draft picks than we have had. I have never heard Yzerman use Kenny as an excuse for the current lack of success.

 

[Henkka]

I think this has been said so many times, but I'll reiterate:

Why would you trade debrincat, probably your best goal scorer on a team that will most likely make the playoffs, to ANYONE for just a 1st? Team chemistry would be thrown off to get a 1st back? Makes absolutely no sense.

Also, a trade deadline deal is massively different value than an offseason deal. Also, by that time, everyone's cap management is going to be basically set. Adding a player, at most likely 7.65-9 mil, at the trade deadline is going to mess them up bad. Sure, ottawa could retain I suppose...but why would they retain if they are in the playoff hunt (most likely judging by their improvements last season) to another playoff bound team? What are they just going to trade him to a fringe team or a team in the lottery that could afford him and his AAV? Why would they do that (especially the lottery teams)?

Yes, at the trade deadline, IF AND ONLY IF Ottawa is not in the playoff hunt, then trade debrincat and get your first...but you are much more likely to be in the playoff hunt by then with how their team is shaping up. Not to mention, the dude walks REGARDLESS of where or when you trade him.

Makes much more sense to go into the season with your team essentially complete. Then when deadline comes, trade for players that can help propel you forward, not regress back in the middle of a playoff push...

These are quite easy answers.

You would lose the player for free, if Ottawa is at playoff hunt. DeBrincat is not gonna re-sign there. They get the best price trading him now, and then buy some time to complete other trades. Senators could easily take the assets (1st + 2nd picks) and use them to buy for another player.

Take the best best value in a trade, and trade for another player who will extend.

If you don't complete the trade, DeBarincat walks for free to Detroit at next summer. How fun is that? Wouldn't you like to have those picks sent from Detroit in a trade, and use them to bolster your roster against this rising Detroit team?

If Detroit doesn't use 8 million for DeBrincat, they will use on some day for another player. It will be as strong team anyways when they start using the full cap, with or withour DeBrincat.

Best thing for Senators themselves, is GET THE damn ASSETS. Not left by empty hands. That's their worst-case-scenario.

That rival thing is so overblown, Metropolitan division has already done probably 10 trades between same division teams. Also Central and Pacific are doing same. It's just talk.

 

[SCD]

Make no mistake about it, Yzerman could have created a playoff team sooner by over paying UFAs and selling future assets. His goal is not to create a middling playoff team that will soon battle cap problems.

 

[SCD]

The Penguins were out of the playoffs for 4 consecutive years, during that period they never got 70 points in a season, and landed 4 consecutive top 2 picks.

The Blackhawks were out of the playoffs for 9 out of 10 seasons, during that period they had 3 top 3 draft picks.

The Kings were out of the playoffs for 6 years in a row. They landed 3 top 5 picks.

Most rebuilds are in fact at least 4 years out of the playoffs, and mostly tend to have better draft picks than we have had. I have never heard Yzerman use Kenny as an excuse for the current lack of success.

He did not mention Holland by name, but in a year 2 presser he did mention that the team was in worse shape than he initially thought.

 

[DTR]

Make no mistake about it, Yzerman could have created a playoff team sooner by over paying UFAs and selling future assets. His goal is not to create a middling playoff team that will soon battle cap problems.

For sure. But right now Yzerman has a massive competitive advantage with both the cap space and draft capital he’s accrued. Being patient is great, but he needs to do something now to add to our core (not saying it’s DeBrincat, but someone of that profile) because he likely won’t ever have this much space and so many picks at the same time again.

 

[Henkka]

Most rebuilds are in fact at least 4 years out of the playoffs, and mostly tend to have better draft picks than we have had. I have never heard Yzerman use Kenny as an excuse for the current lack of success.

People who like to be against everything in the world, are now starting to go against Yzerman.

And people who will see this is unfair, but can't put it in words... will accuse Kenny as the easy excuse.

It's kind... going against a false argument... with a false argument.

Nonsense discussion all boards are full nowadays.

***

I've got some hate about those Tampa comparisons. But just damn, compare the situation when Yzerman went to Tampa.

- Hedman (2009) and Stamkos (2008) were already drafted. Yzerman started there at May 2010. His first draft was 2010.
- At Detroit Yzerman got his "hedman & stamkos" as Seider (2019) and Raymond (2020) completed not until 2020.

So he kind of had a same comparable start at Detroit, from May 2021. But he was here 2 years earlier, for those poor years.

 

[DamonDRW]

If people are so in favor of getting DeBrincat, maybe we can also get the main weapon for him - Patrick Kane? I'm sure Rangers won't be able to keep him. At least, with these two guys we are a playoff team.

What happens next is another story though. Likely no cup and another rebuild in 4 years, but at least majority here will be satisfied.

 

[datsyukfan]

If people are so in favor of getting DeBrincat, maybe we can also get the main weapon for him - Patrick Kane? I'm sure Rangers won't be able to keep him. At least, with these two guys we are a playoff team.

What happens next is another story though. Likely no cup and another rebuild in 4 years, but at least majority here will be satisfied.

Trading for debrincat and signing Kane wouldn’t mess up the rebuild. Debrincat is 25 years old which is exactly the age of player we like. Kane would be a 1-2 year deal

 

[TCNorthstars]

- At Detroit Yzerman got his "hedman & stamkos" as Seider (2019) and Raymond (2020) completed not until 2020.

Lol, what? He got his Hedman, but is definitely still missing his Stamkos.

 

[Henkka]

Lol, what? He got his Hedman, but is definitely still missing his Stamkos.

Don't have to laugh. You did get the point. and not brayden one.

Compared to past draft picks Zadina, Cholowski, Svechnikov, those are kind of the first 2 better top picks to build around. The Yzerman starting point at Tampa was 1-2 years after them. At Detroit he had to start collecting these by himself.