Player Discussion Alexis Lafrenière

[Mac n Gs]

This thread feels like a bunch of people just talking in circles around each other, and I think it would serve everyone a bit better to stop focusing so much on this on a game-by-game basis. We all want the same thing here, which is for Laf to succeed and be a long-term staple in the lineup.

Players, especially young players, go through ebbs and flows over the course of a season. Just two months ago, Laf was playing some of his most aggressive, efficient hockey and a big component of it was him shooting the puck more and using that to track his next spot on the ice. The best I thought he looked was in that stint as LW with Trocheck and Vesey, and given how the rest of the lineup has taken shape recently, I think that grouping probably helps round out the top-9 the best. I liked the Panarin-Trocheck-Laf line a lot, but I think going with this moving forward would work too:

Kreider-Zibanejad-Kakko
Panarin-Chytil-Kravtsov
Laf-Trocheck-Vesey
Blais/Brodzinski-Goodrow-Gauthier --> rotate between whomever of Blais/Brodzinski, I don't care

Would I like to see him get the PP1 minutes? Yeah, of course, but if we're going by who's earned it between the youngest players, all of Chytil, Kakko, and Kravtsov have shown to be more dangerous on the powerplay in their limited PP2 minutes. If we're going by 5v5 play, it's obviously Kakko

 

[DanielBrassard]

Feed to Kakko on the power play in the first period. Great playmaker's play.

Yeah that's the one, and then for the rest of the game there was nothing. Point is, he didn't do anything to garner more ice time.

 

[cheech70]

I'm watching this and around 3:08 Ferraro starts talking about him and how he had a delayed developed similar to MacKinnon leading up to that World Juniors.

Also spoke about how his confidence grew and how he wanted the puck and wanted to be a difference maker. We saw that last year in the playoffs, including his really solid all-around physical play.

To me its a two-fold issue.

You watch the highlights and he is very patient with the puck, getting a lot of points and goals when he has space, specifically on the PP, which suits his pace of play. In the NHL in 5 on 5 situations he doesn't have that room to operate (not to mention any significant PP time). A lot of his wrist shot goals came from the left side in space on the PP. A lot of his playmaking and assists come with the man advantage as well.

The second issue is he's lost his confidence because of the lack of production. It can happen to a lot of young players, but for him it may be more important because when he gets on a tear he really feeds off of it. He felt comfortable on that kid line in the playoffs and was producing and it built from there, but we all know he never gets the opportunity to continue to build on that confidence by producing on the PP.

Its a chicken and an egg thing for me.

The Rangers need him to be good, but for him to be good he does need top PP time, which compliments his style of play and provides him with more confidence to play better 5 on 5. Is it coddling? I dont think so. You are preventing a player from playing to his strengths.

But I also understand that for this to happen you need to remove Mika from the wall and put him where Trocheck is. Its a really tough ask and something that really needs to be a decision from the top. Laf is the most comfortable on that side of the ice. I cant really kill the kid considering what has happened the last two years. However, If the Rangers really want to help the kid flourish in the NHL they may have find a way to put him in a position to succeed.

Could he improve his skating and try to improve/adapt his game to the NHL? Absolutely, no doubt. He needs to work on it. But I also believe there is something to the special teams argument.

He looks leaner and quicker...Lots of PP highlights and he is in Mikas spot....put him there for PP2....he is skating 10mph slower as a NYR which means he is thinking too much....he should progress maybe as Mika...mid 20's

 

[Rongomania]

Feed to Kakko on the power play in the first period. Great playmaker's play.

My favorite part of rebuild so far is that these two have had obvious chemistry from shift 1 together. Chytil joining that was a luxurious and wonderful surprise.

 

[bhamill]

I can buy that 1 out of 4 is a bust, but not all four.

Coming along slowly doesn't mean the org is doing everything right. More should be going right by now.

I don't think the other 3 are busts. (or Chytil either) I also didn't say the organization is doing ANYTHING right. I said they are doing it in a way that frustrates us but MAY result in an even better finished product... MAY. Hence the whole point of saying we'll have to wait and see how it bears out.
You saying "more should be going right by now" is just an opinion. We will see if your opinion is correct with time. Until then it means no more than anyone else's. And no less.

 

[mas0764]

He looks leaner and quicker...Lots of PP highlights and he is in Mikas spot....put him there for PP2....he is skating 10mph slower as a NYR which means he is thinking too much....he should progress maybe as Mika...mid 20's

Agree, he needs to lose weight and get faster.

 

[will1066]

My favorite part of rebuild so far is that these two have had obvious chemistry from shift 1 together. Chytil joining that was a luxurious and wonderful surprise.

My favorite part of rebuild so far is your avatar, man.

 

[cheech70]

Laf got the hat the other day which was odd because he was meh...My Son said on Reddit it was a show of support from players...like it was unfair.. Its like a choo-choo train..1st Filip,then K2 and now waiting for 13 who could be the lead Locomotive.

 

[CLW]

He looks leaner and quicker...Lots of PP highlights and he is in Mikas spot....put him there for PP2....he is skating 10mph slower as a NYR which means he is thinking too much....he should progress maybe as Mika...mid 20's

Like Kakko Laffy was told to bulk up as main priority in his off season training. He did that, but again like Kakko he looked much slower for it. The Rangers want their kids to be solid specimens, Kreider like, and that takes time and multiple off seasons.

 

[haohmaru]

In 11 minutes we can determine he what he deserved or didn't? No.

Let's look at some numbers, shall we?

13:44 = Lafreniere's ATOI ES strength ice time

Let's look at some other players around the league:

Hischier 13:48
Anders Lee 13:43
Couture 13:39
Brad Marchand 13:44
Kakko 13:58
Larkin 14:11
Seguin 13:32
Newhook 13:13
Eriksson Ek 13:35
Bratt 14:19

This notion that LaFreniere isn't getting ice time is crap. He hasn't shown anything to supplant anyone on PP1 and the last thing you want to do is put a struggling player on a struggling (to score at least) PP. What does he bring to the table that excels ahead of anyone else on the first PP? Nothing.

The hard truth is that LaFreniere looks slow, is a turnover machine, doesn't have a quick hockey IQ, isn't strong enough, and looks like he could really benefit from an AHL stint to run circles (hopefully) around players and get some swagger back.

 

[Rangers in 7]

Let's look at some numbers, shall we?

13:44 = Lafreniere's ATOI ES strength ice time

Let's look at some other players around the league:

Hischier 13:48
Anders Lee 13:43
Couture 13:39
Brad Marchand 13:44
Kakko 13:58
Larkin 14:11
Seguin 13:32
Newhook 13:13
Eriksson Ek 13:35
Bratt 14:19

This notion that LaFreniere isn't getting ice time is crap. He hasn't shown anything to supplant anyone on PP1 and the last thing you want to do is put a struggling player on a struggling (to score at least) PP. What does he bring to the table that excels ahead of anyone else on the first PP? Nothing.

The hard truth is that LaFreniere looks slow, is a turnover machine, doesn't have a quick hockey IQ, isn't strong enough, and looks like he could really benefit from an AHL stint to run circles (hopefully) around players and get some swagger back.

Now let’s look at their overall ice time

Hischier: 19:49
Lee: 17:13
Couture: 18:56
Marchand: 18:59
Larkin: 20:09
Seguin: 16:57
Newhook: 15:02
Eriksen ek: 19:26
Bratt: 17:34

Laf: 14:56

I’ll build on this too for you

5 v 5 stats for all

Hischier: 23 points
Lee: 17 points
Couture: 15 points
Marchand: 10 points
Larkin: 16 points
Seguin: 16 points
Newhook: 9 points
Eriksson ek: 16 points
Bratt: 22 points

Laf: 14 points

So tell me….what’s your point……

 

[Number 9]

NM

 

[IDvsEGO]

Now let’s look at their overall ice time

Hischier: 19:49
Lee: 17:13
Couture: 18:56
Marchand: 18:59
Larkin: 20:09
Seguin: 16:57
Newhook: 15:02
Eriksen ek: 19:26
Bratt: 17:34

Laf: 14:56

I’ll build on this too for you

5 v 5 stats for all

Hischier: 23 points
Lee: 17 points
Couture: 15 points
Marchand: 10 points
Larkin: 16 points
Seguin: 16 points
Newhook: 9 points
Eriksson ek: 16 points
Bratt: 22 points

Laf: 14 points

So tell me….what’s your point……

I was just about to do this.
Thank you for saving me the work.

People really seem to ignore how large a percentage PP points typically are.

 

[Rangers in 7]

I was just about to do this.
Thank you for saving me the work.

People really seem to ignore how large a percentage PP points typically are.

Don’t worry I’m told PP points “artificially inflate their numbers”

 

[Profet]

Twitter is talking about Laf to Habs this week. Probably full of shit at least I hope. What would we even get back? It's speculation but still concerned.

From an "egg on your face" perspective it makes no sense.

If I'm Drury, I want no part of the media room if Laf takes off with his old GM after stagnating here. That's just an avoidable risk that doesn't need to be taken.

 

[IDvsEGO]

From an "egg on your face" perspective it makes no sense.

If I'm Drury, I want no part of the media room if Laf takes off with his old GM after stagnating here. That's just an avoidable risk that doesn't need to be taken.

Lets be clear. The only thing MTL could theoretically offer us to move laf, would be a top 2 pick this draft post lotto. (if the unthinkable happens and MTL has picks 1+2) I could see them offering 2 for laf, from the quebecois nature of things.

Drury likely needs a massive overpay to move laf because there are solid numbers showing laf will take off with more time. And then drury has egg on his face.

 

[mas0764]

Now let’s look at their overall ice time

Hischier: 19:49
Lee: 17:13
Couture: 18:56
Marchand: 18:59
Larkin: 20:09
Seguin: 16:57
Newhook: 15:02
Eriksen ek: 19:26
Bratt: 17:34

Laf: 14:56

I’ll build on this too for you

5 v 5 stats for all

Hischier: 23 points
Lee: 17 points
Couture: 15 points
Marchand: 10 points
Larkin: 16 points
Seguin: 16 points
Newhook: 9 points
Eriksson ek: 16 points
Bratt: 22 points

Laf: 14 points

So tell me….what’s your point……

Ouch sick burn

 

[cheech70]

Lets be clear. The only thing MTL could theoretically offer us to move laf, would be a top 2 pick this draft post lotto. (if the unthinkable happens and MTL has picks 1+2) I could see them offering 2 for laf, from the quebecois nature of things.

Drury likely needs a massive overpay to move laf because there are solid numbers showing laf will take off with more time. And then drury has egg on his face.

The other 2 kids are progressing very nicely....Laf will be the best of The Kids

 

[IDvsEGO]

Let's look at some numbers, shall we?

13:44 = Lafreniere's ATOI ES strength ice time

Let's look at some other players around the league:

Hischier 13:48
Anders Lee 13:43
Couture 13:39
Brad Marchand 13:44
Kakko 13:58
Larkin 14:11
Seguin 13:32
Newhook 13:13
Eriksson Ek 13:35
Bratt 14:19

This notion that LaFreniere isn't getting ice time is crap. He hasn't shown anything to supplant anyone on PP1 and the last thing you want to do is put a struggling player on a struggling (to score at least) PP. What does he bring to the table that excels ahead of anyone else on the first PP? Nothing.

The hard truth is that LaFreniere looks slow, is a turnover machine, doesn't have a quick hockey IQ, isn't strong enough, and looks like he could really benefit from an AHL stint to run circles (hopefully) around players and get some swagger back.

Also to respond to something that was missed.

No one is saying laf isn't getting a good amount of Even strength time right now.
The one thing everyone is cool with right now is how much 5v5 time the kids are getting. Theyre all top 5 on the team at 5v5.

The issue is that none of them are getting real pp time, and the PP is where younger players tend to figure things out because they have more space and time. We want laf to get pp time because he's looked good in space.

Laf at 5v5 is doing just fine, the bitching is because he's not getting pp time so his numbers look off.

The other 2 kids are progressing very nicely....Laf will be the best of The Kids

I've got no doubt about it. I think Laf and KK on the wing will be our playoff formula for a very long time.

 

[haohmaru]

Now let’s look at their overall ice time

Hischier: 19:49
Lee: 17:13
Couture: 18:56
Marchand: 18:59
Larkin: 20:09
Seguin: 16:57
Newhook: 15:02
Eriksen ek: 19:26
Bratt: 17:34

Laf: 14:56

I’ll build on this too for you

5 v 5 stats for all

Hischier: 23 points
Lee: 17 points
Couture: 15 points
Marchand: 10 points
Larkin: 16 points
Seguin: 16 points
Newhook: 9 points
Eriksson ek: 16 points
Bratt: 22 points

Laf: 14 points

So tell me….what’s your point……

That he's getting plenty of even strength ice time with reference to comparable forwards?

Also to respond to something that was missed.

No one is saying laf isn't getting a good amount of Even strength time right now.
The one thing everyone is cool with right now is how much 5v5 time the kids are getting. Theyre all top 5 on the team at 5v5.

The issue is that none of them are getting real pp time, and the PP is where younger players tend to figure things out because they have more space and time. We want laf to get pp time because he's looked good in space.

Laf at 5v5 is doing just fine, the bitching is because he's not getting pp time so his numbers look off.


I've got no doubt about it. I think Laf and KK on the wing will be our playoff formula for a very long time.

I understand that. I just don't see who you're removing to put him on PP1 and, honestly, I think Kakko should get a look there before LaF anyway.

 

[Rangers in 7]

That he's getting plenty of even strength ice time with reference to comparable forwards?



I understand that. I just don't see who you're removing to put him on PP1 and, honestly, I think Kakko should get a look there before LaF anyway.

5 v 5 ice time hasn’t been the complaint. Every single player you listed has gotten significant more opportunity then laf

The fact that he’s played like shit and has kept up with all of those players is a testament to how good of a player he CAN be

 

[IDvsEGO]

I understand that. I just don't see who you're removing to put him on PP1 and, honestly, I think Kakko should get a look there before LaF anyway.

Thats the hard question. The real answer is we don't know right now and why we're not making 5m coaching the rangers.
We know the problem, we know part of the solution, but the two places that make the most sense, are Mika and Panarin.

The other answer is not to remove any of the traditional spots, but flip fox and trouba.

KK - FC - AL

Vk

AF


In some of the lighter games, give the kids the start of the PP, give them the bulk of the work, and see what happens.

 

[haohmaru]

5 v 5 ice time hasn’t been the complaint. Every single player you listed has gotten significant more opportunity then laf

The fact that he’s played like shit and has kept up with all of those players is a testament to how good of a player he CAN be

The guy I was responding to said that 11+ minutes of ice time wasn't enough to determine anything. I was replying to that to illustrate that his even strength ice time is comparable to other forwards at his level -AND- there wasn't really a spot for him on PP1.

Who are you taking off the PP? Zib? Panarin? The guy who scored more PP goals last year than ANYONE? Fox? Trocheck's 13 PP points? I don't see where Laf slots ahead of any of them - the guy hasn't scored a goal in a month -AND- I think Kakko and possibly Chytil have made more of a case for being there than LaFreniere.

Not really sure what we're disagreeing on. Lafreniere will take that next step, I'm just not sure it'll be this season.

 

[Rangers in 7]

The guy I was responding to said that 11+ minutes of ice time wasn't enough to determine anything. I was replying to that to illustrate that his even strength ice time is comparable to other forwards at his level -AND- there wasn't really a spot for him on PP1.

Who are you taking off the PP? Zib? Panarin? The guy who scored more PP goals last year than ANYONE? Fox? Trocheck's 13 PP points? I don't see where Laf slots ahead of any of them - the guy hasn't scored a goal in a month -AND- I think Kakko and possibly Chytil have made more of a case for being there than LaFreniere.

Not really sure what we're disagreeing on. Lafreniere will take that next step, I'm just not sure it'll be this season.

Maybe I took your post without context. To be fair I do think that the PP should be more evenly distributed. I wouldn’t break up the first unit as much as I would let PP2 start some powerplays. I’ve also advocated for Trouba to be taken off and let fox play the entire 2 minutes

 

[haohmaru]

Maybe I took your post without context. To be fair I do think that the PP should be more evenly distributed. I wouldn’t break up the first unit as much as I would let PP2 start some powerplays. I’ve also advocated for Trouba to be taken off and let fox play the entire 2 minutes

Oh, I don't argue that either - there are many, many times that PP1 is just lingering out there instead of getting off after a minute or so. Completely agree.