Player Discussion Alexis Lafrenière

[bhamill]

He's 21, people grow at different rates. You're implying he isnt doing work without any idea of what he is doing or any reason to say it. There is absolutely nothing wrong with the view if it's accurate, you have nothing to base it on outside of your own made up timeline as to when he should get his man strength. If you have something that says he isn't putting the work in I'll read it but i haven't heard anything to that end, quite the opposite.

Holy moly. Haha. Even if you don't grow/mature you can get stronger and gain more stamina. He hasn't. Occam's Razor says he needs to work harder at it, or maybe smarter at it. I'm not sure why this is so insulting to you. As you said he's 21, people grow at different rates. That isn't just physical. To suggest he's still learning what he needs to do OFF ice as well as ON it as an NHL pro at 21 coming straight out of Juniors is not some wild accusation. its a logical conclusion and the most likely explanation for what I am seeing. I really don't care if you don't like it. You don't have to agree. Hahaha. I'm not asking you to.
If you read my posts, I'm consistently preaching patience with Laffy. I like the kid, I like his game, or what it will become. I think he's going to be an excellent Ranger.
There's no more for me to say about this here. If you want to tell me what my eyes and logic tell me is wrong one more time, go for it. It's all good buddy. Have a great day!

 

[Shadowtron]

I’ve been following this thread and there are a lot of great tales here. Had me thinking, could it be that we’re just overrating him because of his draft status? We’re expecting at the very least a franchise player/star player. However, maybe Vince was right and “strong top six” is his ceiling. 25-30 goals, 50-60 points during his best seasons. If he doesn’t put it all together, then middle six mucker.

 

[mas0764]

I’ve been following this thread and there are a lot of great tales here. Had me thinking, could it be that we’re just overrating him because of his draft status? We’re expecting at the very least a franchise player/star player. However, maybe Vince was right and “strong top six” is his ceiling. 25-30 goals, 50-60 points during his best seasons. If he doesn’t put it all together, then middle six mucker.

When did Vince say that was his ceiling?

 

[PANARIN BREAD FAN]

absolutely. no matter what sport it is the 1OA is always going to automatically have spotlights on him,. everybody that follows sports always remember who is 1OA. it could be a HOFer, a bust, a meh, etc.

 

[will1066]

Remove the poutine from the routine. Profet.

I'll show myself out.

 

[PANARIN BREAD FAN]

When did Vince say that was his ceiling?

i don't know who vince is but if 60 is the kid's max a lot of doubters at this point would be shocked and frankly might bust loads in their pants.

 

[ReddestRum]

I’ve been following this thread and there are a lot of great tales here. Had me thinking, could it be that we’re just overrating him because of his draft status? We’re expecting at the very least a franchise player/star player. However, maybe Vince was right and “strong top six” is his ceiling. 25-30 goals, 50-60 points during his best seasons. If he doesn’t put it all together, then middle six mucker.

The talent and skill to excel exists everywhere in the NHL except on the Rangers. Here, all responsibly for a player's development falls on the organization. If they don't make it, it's the organizations fault. We defy history by failing to acknowledge that high draft picks can lead to average players, and that domination in lower leagues is not indicative of how a player will adjust to the NHL.

I personally don't expect a 50-60 point player.

I don't expect elite.

In season 3, I expect the future of this franchise to be able to look like he can lead the rush, be strong on the puck in the O-zone, and the person the puck finds most of the time. Especially when playing opposite another team's 3rd line. OH, I especially would like him to take more than 1 shot a game.

 

[Mugless]

I'd like more of this:

 

[Peltz]

I called it the Cult of Lafreniere about a week ago, because this thread feels exactly like that. I've never seen so many excuses for one player. Not even Kakko.

They make excuses about his age and that he needs to "grow into his body", yet there are younger players who have surpassed his production, and who lead by example in their young ages because they've shown they have the skill to do so.

They make excuses that the organization doesn't develop their young players, but the definition of development to the CoL is that he get PP minutes to pad his stats. At most the organization will let you know what you need to work on, but it's Laf that needs to find a reputable coach to strengthen his shortfalls, and that shit isn't happening in the middle of the season.

They make excuses that he doesn't get enough time on ice, and that he needs to play with vets to excel. I think that's counter to what is defined as elite in the NHL. The elite separate themselves from others, no matter what line they're on. And to add to that, Laf has been on a line with Zib and Bread and STILL looked mediocre to average.

They make excuses that he doesn't get enough PP1 time and would rather switch out someone in the top 5 of scoring on this team (someone who hasn't been scoring 3 points a game for the last week or whateve) for Laf, when even Kakko looks rungs about him. The excuse for Kakko looking better, as said in this thread, is because Kakko has a year on him, but fail to acknowledge that, again, there are younger players that just look better.

The excuses just don't seem to end, but even in this thread, they will turn around and ridicule a 20-year old Stutzle for being a defensive liability. A guy like him doesn't rate the same excuses that our boy Laf gets. I've never seen a soon to be millionaire hockey player held to the bosom as much as Laf has. It's straight up cringe.

I feel like Kakko always looked better for the type of hockey I like to see but laf will still put it together.

 

[huerter]

Thanks for your uneducated advice.

If only there was a former high major DOBO to weigh in.

 

[Rongomania]

I'd like more of this:

He did this as a child basically. He will be fine. Wasn't what he did in the playoffs like legendary amongst players his age - all time? I am forgetting the probably very specific stat, but he is so far from done cooking. You can see flashes of a very unique, great hockey player.

If we panic trade him it will be in the Buch/McD/amonte/zubov/weight stratosphere.

 

[McRanger92]

Well if he's putting the work in and this is the outcome-- you better hope he's not putting the work in. What I see is a guy who's come back from the offseason as unprepared for the upcoming season as the year before. So again- if his current status is the result of him "putting in the work" I'm even more concerned.

You know who looks like they put in the work this offseason? Kakko & Chytil. Anyone paying any attention can see that their strength and conditioning is vastly improved from previous seasons. Lafreniere & Kravtsov don't have the man strength that the other too do. In that regard I think the scratches will pay off in the long run. I really could not be less worried about our young forwards.

 

[mas0764]

The talent and skill to excel exists everywhere in the NHL except on the Rangers. Here, all responsibly for a player's development falls on the organization. If they don't make it, it's the organizations fault. We defy history by failing to acknowledge that high draft picks can lead to average players, and that domination in lower leagues is not indicative of how a player will adjust to the NHL.

I personally don't expect a 50-60 point player.

I don't expect elite.

In season 3, I expect the future of this franchise to be able to look like he can lead the rush, be strong on the puck in the O-zone, and the person the puck finds most of the time. Especially when playing opposite another team's 3rd line. OH, I especially would like him to take more than 1 shot a game.

Lafreniere not progressing further would be one of the most massive busts ever, and from a prospect who was throught to be one of the best in years, ie, not one of those "there is no great talent so you might get a bust" years like with Hischier or Yakupov.

Scouting has come pretty far from the 1990s.

It would be eminently surprising if everyone was just wrong about Lafreniere.

It's actually the simplest explanation that the org is doing something wrong, especially when you look at their track record and see a 2nd overall, 7th overall, and 9th overall all having similar troubles.

 

[bhamill]

You know who looks like they put in the work this offseason? Kakko & Chytil. Anyone paying any attention can see that their strength and conditioning is vastly improved from previous seasons. Lafreniere & Kravtsov don't have the man strength that the other too do. In that regard I think the scratches will pay off in the long run. I really could not be less worried about our young forwards.

Agreed.

 

[JHS]

You know who looks like they put in the work this offseason? Kakko & Chytil. Anyone paying any attention can see that their strength and conditioning is vastly improved from previous seasons. Lafreniere & Kravtsov don't have the man strength that the other too do. In that regard I think the scratches will pay off in the long run. I really could not be less worried about our young forwards.

Yup and it's not a coincidence that both have taken massive leaps forward in their development.

 

[bhamill]

Lafreniere not progressing further would be one of the most massive busts ever, and from a prospect who was throught to be one of the best in years, ie, not one of those "there is no great talent so you might get a bust" years like with Hischier or Yakupov.

Scouting has come pretty far from the 1990s.

It would be eminently surprising if everyone was just wrong about Lafreniere.

It's actually the simplest explanation that the org is doing something wrong, especially when you look at their track record and see a 2nd overall, 7th overall, and 9th overall all having similar troubles.

Lias was a bad pick at that spot. Kakko is starting to flourish, and Kravtsov has some growing up/filling in to do.
Really the simple explanation here is that the organization is bringing these young forwards along in a way that is very unsatisfying to us less than casual fans... BUT that doesn't mean these players will not reach their potential or maybe even be better all round players for it. Jury is out, and we won't know for another year or two. Anyone claiming certainty either way is just plain full of shit.
No one likes hearing that we need to be patient, but there really is nothing to do but wait and either be hopeful, or bitch about it. Hahaha. We will see whose predictions bear out with time.

 

[Shadowtron]

When did Vince say that was his ceiling?

I believe there was a post in this thread where a Rangers fan was lamenting the fact that Laffy is playing the way he has been despite being evaluated as a generational talent or something along those lines. Vince’s reply was that the person hadn’t been paying attention because Laffy was never expected to be a gen player. They had him valued as a “strong top 6” (whatever you consider that to be). If I misread that, then disregard my previous comment.

So may this is what he is. At 21, I have no doubt he’ll improve some. But maybe we’re just expecting too much. Maybe the Rangers lucked into lottery wins that were unfortunately in drafts where the 1 & 2 picks are just gonna be average players.

 

[Rongomania]

lmao the Kak hate was so much worse than this. Some dude tried to make multiple bets THIS YEAR that Krav would beast all over Kakko. Krav makes one awesome play every six-ten games. Glued to bread a ton and speaks the language. Off ice time. Laf will absolutely be fine. This is a unique rebuild which has hit a few speed bumps, but we look solid and growing. Year 6 of rebuild.

Hey what did Buffalo and Edmonton look like in 2013 ? Avalanche? Lmao.

 

[HockeyBasedNYC]

Its painful watching Bedard go nuts in the World Juniors and being reminded that Lafreniere was held in the same esteem just 3 years ago.

 

[McRanger92]

lmao the Kak hate was so much worse than this. Some dude tried to make multiple bets THIS YEAR that Krav would beast all over Kakko. Krav makes one awesome play every six-ten games. Glued to bread a ton and speaks the language. Off ice time. Laf will absolutely be fine. This is a unique rebuild which has hit a few speed bumps, but we look solid and growing. Year 6 of rebuild.

Hey what did Buffalo and Edmonton look like in 2013 ? Avalanche? Lmao.

Spot on. I remember myself being very hard on Chytil and Kakko and I'm glad they stuck with them because the arrow is pointing way up. Patience is key with these kids, and a healthy scratch doesnt mean the rangers are done with Laf, quite the opposite in fact. People should just ignore whatever the Vancouver and Montreal fanbases think about our players

 

[DanielBrassard]

In 11 minutes we can determine he what he deserved or didn't? No.

What did Lafreniere do in his 11 minutes of ice time that was at all notable?

 

[Rongomania]

Spot on. I remember myself being very hard on Chytil and Kakko and I'm glad they stuck with them because the arrow is pointing way up. Patience is key with these kids, and a healthy scratch doesnt mean the rangers are done with Laf, quite the opposite in fact. People should just ignore whatever the Vancouver and Montreal fanbases think about our players

Please tell me when MTL and VAN win 2 ECF games. Laf, Kak and Chytil have done that. At 20, 21 & 22. At these ages, the three of them have also made it clear that they are prime time game 7 players. We have so much to look forward to and I hope Krav can grow and join that group as well. We are building something clearly very special.

AL is and has always been the one I'm least concerned about. He knows what he has to do. They all know if they can bring a cup or two here, they will be cemented as NYC sports legends.

 

[will1066]

What did Lafreniere do in his 11 minutes of ice time that was at all notable?

Feed to Kakko on the power play in the first period. Great playmaker's play.

 

[mas0764]

Lias was a bad pick at that spot. Kakko is starting to flourish, and Kravtsov has some growing up/filling in to do.
Really the simple explanation here is that the organization is bringing these young forwards along in a way that is very unsatisfying to us less than casual fans... BUT that doesn't mean these players will not reach their potential or maybe even be better all round players for it. Jury is out, and we won't know for another year or two. Anyone claiming certainty either way is just plain full of shit.
No one likes hearing that we need to be patient, but there really is nothing to do but wait and either be hopeful, or bitch about it. Hahaha. We will see whose predictions bear out with time.

I can buy that 1 out of 4 is a bust, but not all four.

Coming along slowly doesn't mean the org is doing everything right. More should be going right by now.

I believe there was a post in this thread where a Rangers fan was lamenting the fact that Laffy is playing the way he has been despite being evaluated as a generational talent or something along those lines. Vince’s reply was that the person hadn’t been paying attention because Laffy was never expected to be a gen player. They had him valued as a “strong top 6” (whatever you consider that to be). If I misread that, then disregard my previous comment.

So may this is what he is. At 21, I have no doubt he’ll improve some. But maybe we’re just expecting too much. Maybe the Rangers lucked into lottery wins that were unfortunately in drafts where the 1 & 2 picks are just gonna be average players.

Eh, there's a huge gulf between "McDavid" and "just a top 6er."

He was somewhere short of MacKinnon but not far behind according to most.

 

[HockeyBasedNYC]

Watch this and start listening around 3:08. Ferraro talks about him and how he had a delayed developed similar to MacKinnon leading up to that World Juniors.

Also spoke about how his confidence grew and how he wanted the puck and wanted to be a difference maker. We saw that last year in the playoffs, including his really solid all-around physical play.

To me its a two-fold issue.

You watch the highlights and he is very patient with the puck, getting a lot of points and goals when he has space, specifically on the PP, which suits his pace of play. In the NHL in 5 on 5 situations he doesn't have that room to operate (not to mention any significant PP time). A lot of his wrist shot goals came from the left side in space on the PP. A lot of his playmaking and assists come with the man advantage as well.

The second issue is he's lost his confidence because of the lack of production. It can happen to a lot of young players, but for him it may be more important because when he gets on a tear he really feeds off of it. He felt comfortable on that kid line in the playoffs and was producing and it built from there, but we all know he never gets the opportunity to continue to build on that confidence by producing on the PP. Where would he be if he had?

Its a chicken and an egg thing for me.

The Rangers need him to be good, but for him to be good he does need top PP time, which compliments his style of play and provides him with more confidence to play better 5 on 5. Is it coddling? I dont think so. Its an investment. You are preventing a player from playing to his strengths.

But I also understand that for this to happen you need to remove Mika from the wall and put him where Trocheck is. Its a really tough ask and something that needs to be a decision from the top. Laf is the most comfortable on that side of the ice. This was never a true rebuild, because of this very fact.

I cant really kill the kid considering what has happened the last two years. However, If the Rangers really want to help the kid flourish in the NHL they may have find a way to put him in a position to succeed instead of expecting him to magically become a world beater 5 on 5, which ironically, he has been in regards to 5 on 5 goals compared to his teammates.

Could he improve his skating and try to improve/adapt his game to the NHL? Absolutely, no doubt. He needs to work on several things off-ice and on. But I also believe there is something to the special teams argument and the confidence that is born out of it, just watch the video.