Player Discussion Alexis Lafrenière

[Edge]

There’s not much else he’s doing out there other then trying to put the puck in the back of the net

Do the four prime opportunities he created for others in the last two games count?

Or is it like some suspect, all or nothing on goals?

 

[Rangers in 7]

Do the four prime opportunities he created for others in the last two games count?

Or is it like some suspect, all or nothing on goals?

im not even talking about points...im talking about his play on the ice....hes playing scared, i dont know if that is because of quinn or some other reason

he gets the puck and is immediately looking to give it up, hes then passing to f***ing howden who dumps the puck in and there goes possession.

do i love that he is creating chances? yea of course but i still see a player that is playing extremely tentative, maybe those quotes from kakko last season have me agitated when it comes to kk and laf but damn the kid has more to give

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

All of ya'll getting hung up over FLASH AND DASH are out to lunch. Single dumbest criticism Ive read here.

Most players, even the BEST ones or the "flashiest ones", are rarely doing this shit. The plays like he one he made to Strome yesterday? Those happen alot. Those also go in the net more often than they have when Lafreniere has been involved (his teammates are shooting 0%!)

Just in the last 2 games, he's set up Strome, Gauthier, Tony B, Howden and PDG for quality (or super high quality) chances, 0 goals. As someone else mentioned, he hasn't had the benefit of getting those "empty" points either where he picks up an assist on a goal that bounces off of 3 bodies, or hands the puck off to someone who rushes it up ice and does all the work, or gets an assist on a play where he doesnt even touch the puck.

If his teammates even converted on a quarter of the chances hes set up, hes sitting at around 6-8 points right now, no one is complaining and were talking about just how awesome he's going to be when he gets heavier usage more comfortable instead of trying to micro analyze everything and ignoring what is obvious. Hes been unlucky.

 

[Edge]

im not even talking about points...im talking about his play on the ice....hes playing scared, i dont know if that is because of quinn or some other reason

he gets the puck and is immediately looking to give it up, hes then passing to f***ing howden who dumps the puck in and there goes possession.

do i love that he is creating chances? yea of course but i still see a player that is playing extremely tentative, maybe those quotes from kakko last season have me agitated when it comes to kk and laf but damn the kid has more to give

And that's exactly my point, I think the play out there has been mostly good. Most people who see him think it's been good. That's been the take internally. That's been the take by pundits and observers. That's been the feedback from eye tests and even underlying stats. It's been the feedback from other teams.

So the basic point is, while I agree with some of your observations, I don't know if I necessarily agree at the conclusion they arrive to.

Yes, he hasn't been perfect. He has things he needs to work on. But he certainly hasn't been bad. He hasn't looked over-matcjed. He's created chances out there and he's engaged. I notice him out there for positive reasons.

I don't think he's playing with 100 percent confidence, but I think that's typical of any teenager who is only 11 looks into his NHL competition. I mean we're barely past the month of what a rookie might see in the preseason --- especially if their team plays closer to 8 preseason games. So, yes, he's definitely still feeling his way around out there.

I don't see "extremely" tentative or "scared." I see a kid who is playing well, looks like he belongs, but is very much still learning.

Again, I would almost bet you a good money that if even half the opportunities he created are buried this weekend, probably 50 to 75 % of the more negative views don't exist. And that's without Lafreniere changing a darn thing.

Essentially, I don't feel like people are freaking out because of the on-ice performance. They're freaking out because they're staring at the box score and when there isn't a number next to Lafreniere's name they visit HockeyDB.com, ponder past high picks, and set themselves up for a panic attack that isn't fair to themselves or Lafreniere.

 

[Filthy Dangles]

points are going to come.

 

[HatTrick Swayze]

points are going to come.

Thanks for this. Play in the d zone in the first video, and the way he threaded the pass through the dman in the second are both absolutely sick. Those aren’t plays that 99% of 19 year olds are making at the NHL level.

 

[Edge]

points are going to come.

And these two clips are exactly what I'm talking about.

I just don't see a kid who looks like he's in trouble out there. I see a kid who looks like the points should be coming.

If anything, it's surprising to me that Lafreniere and Kakko don't have more points. Because these type of moments aren't necessarily few and far between either.

If we weren't seeing them, if they were skating in mud, or looked lost out there, yes - I would be really concerned. But we're genuinely not seeing that from either guy right now.

The point I keep emphasizing is this: if we just put the point discussion on the shelf for a second and had no idea how many points Lafreniere and Kakko have, we would look at highlights from this season, especially the last several days, and we would be talking about how they fit right in, how engaged they look, how they're creating chances, how they're evolving and starting to do the little things, or how Quinn just gave Kakko the second highest playing total of his career.

To me, that is far more indicative of what we're seeing than point totals right now.

It's not to say that production doesn't matter. But I think production can be misleading and mask a much broader perspective.

 

[HatTrick Swayze]

points are going to come.

Wow, also somehow completely missed the play in the neutral zone in the 2nd video. He basically made a seamless one touch pass to Strome in stride to set up the quick transition. Pace of the NHL is so fast these days it’s hard to catch all these details live.

 

[bleedblue94]

Curious what Datsyuk said. I must've missed this. Yes, more flexibility will come once they have shown that they have established a foundation that Quinn is looking for. That, of course, is in Quinn's mind and is a moving target. I'm not Quinn (despite my profile pic), and I know there isn't some quantifiable threshold where it clicks and Quinn removes the leash. But you can see that Quinn is comfortable with Fox and with Miller. He's not telling Miller to stay back or keeping him on the bench after a mistake. But it is evident that Quinn is getting comfortable with Kakko slowly.

Sorry, it was Larionov

The Beautiful Game | By Igor Larionov

Bottom of article

 

[True Blue]

im not saying dont play within the structure but at the same time he can still outplay 70% of the people he steps on the ice with, that is how good he is and instead hes holding back

Not at 19 he isn't.

i will also agree playing with howden and pdg is stupid

Given Chytil's injury, where would you like him to play?

 

[Quinnisinoverhishead]

Getting better every game. The sign of a true star.

 

[TheDirtyH]

I don't really agree with the overall portrait of Lafreniere setting up a ton of plays this season that are getting botched.

I do agree that he hasn't deserved to be benched in the 3rd period of so many games. And I do agree that last night in particular he really elevated.

 

[HockeyBasedNYC]

This team has MAJOR center issues right now and it is messing with the wingers, Laf included. No way around that.

Good to see him getting looks on the top PP unit.

 

[will1066]

And these two clips are exactly what I'm talking about.

I just don't see a kid who looks like he's in trouble out there. I see a kid who looks like the points should be coming.

If anything, it's surprising to me that Lafreniere and Kakko don't have more points. Because these type of moments aren't necessarily few and far between either.

If we weren't seeing them, if they were skating in mud, or looked lost out there, yes - I would be really concerned. But we're genuinely not seeing that from either guy right now.

The point I keep emphasizing is this: if we just put the point discussion on the shelf for a second and had no idea how many points Lafreniere and Kakko have, we would look at highlights from this season, especially the last several days, and we would be talking about how they fit right in, how engaged they look, how they're creating chances, how they're evolving and starting to do the little things, or how Quinn just gave Kakko the second highest playing total of his career.

To me, that is far more indicative of what we're seeing than point totals right now.

It's not to say that production doesn't matter. But I think production can be misleading and mask a much broader perspective.

It's like @HatTrick Swayze said. Do you want to develop just individuals or do you want to develop both individuals and the team? Are we striving to be the next Edmonton, Buffalo, Toronto? Where the individual numbers are great but the franchises take two steps back for every step forward?

 

[True Blue]

It's like @HatTrick Swayze said. Do you want to develop just individuals or do you want to develop both individuals and the team? Are we striving to be the next Edmonton, Buffalo, Toronto? Where the individual numbers are great but the franchises take two steps back for every step forward?

People seem to forget that a team full of Laines is not going to win anything at all and will be competing for the most amount of ping pong balls.

 

[Off Sides]

I think he has been fine, and also had been improving, same for Kakko.

Was a little worried when they both looked a bit tentative, looking to get the puck off their stick asap, not looking to take the puck to the net, yet that is also a thing I sort of expect from the forward youth.

I am not a Quinn fan yet I don't really like any coaches as they all have warts and expiration dates. That being said so far this year my beef is/was mostly about how quickly he went form what he thought was a good opening night line/pairs to changing big parts of it based on getting stomped by the Islanders in game 1.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

 

[will1066]

People seem to forget that a team full of Laines is not going to win anything at all and will be competing for the most amount of ping pong balls.

It's frustrating for sure not to be winning and not seeing the numbers. I do agree with the people who said Laf has looked tentative. It's not a zero sum game (entirey Quinn's fault) though. And Quinn is not entirely shit-free either with his laissez faire approach to the veterans. We're in the "stop that shit" phase, knocking out bad habits before they become embedded in these kids. We're in the socialize that cat before it becomes feral phase.

 

[Rangers in 7]

And that's exactly my point, I think the play out there has been mostly good. Most people who see him think it's been good. That's been the take internally. That's been the take by pundits and observers. That's been the feedback from eye tests and even underlying stats. It's been the feedback from other teams.

So the basic point is, while I agree with some of your observations, I don't know if I necessarily agree at the conclusion they arrive to.

Yes, he hasn't been perfect. He has things he needs to work on. But he certainly hasn't been bad. He hasn't looked over-matcjed. He's created chances out there and he's engaged. I notice him out there for positive reasons.

I don't think he's playing with 100 percent confidence, but I think that's typical of any teenager who is only 11 looks into his NHL competition. I mean we're barely past the month of what a rookie might see in the preseason --- especially if their team plays closer to 8 preseason games. So, yes, he's definitely still feeling his way around out there.

I don't see "extremely" tentative or "scared." I see a kid who is playing well, looks like he belongs, but is very much still learning.

Again, I would almost bet you a good money that if even half the opportunities he created are buried this weekend, probably 50 to 75 % of the more negative views don't exist. And that's without Lafreniere changing a darn thing.

Essentially, I don't feel like people are freaking out because of the on-ice performance. They're freaking out because they're staring at the box score and when there isn't a number next to Lafreniere's name they visit HockeyDB.com, ponder past high picks, and set themselves up for a panic attack that isn't fair to themselves or Lafreniere.

obviously if he had my points it would be great, i just want more from him on the rush

im not saying hes not playing well but i think he has another gear that he can reach

 

[Edge]

obviously if he had my points it would be great, i just want more from him on the rush

im not saying hes not playing well but i think he has another gear that he can reach

I totally think he does. I think he's going to get better and better with time and, you know, actual centers on the roster.

 

[Crease]

And these two clips are exactly what I'm talking about.

I just don't see a kid who looks like he's in trouble out there. I see a kid who looks like the points should be coming.

If anything, it's surprising to me that Lafreniere and Kakko don't have more points. Because these type of moments aren't necessarily few and far between either.

I joked last night that Kakko has completed his development into Chris Higgins. Laf too.

 

[will1066]

People seem to forget that a team full of Laines is not going to win anything at all and will be competing for the most amount of ping pong balls.

The last thing I want to see is Kakko follow in his footsteps, a #2OA traded in his fifth year despite putting up some great numbers. There is something inherently wrong with that.

 

[EdJovanovski]

points are going to come.

I think he’s definitely been a disappointment so far but one thing’s for sure, his apparent skating issues were way overblown. A lot of games I’m forced to watch the opposing teams broadcast and they kept talking about how great of a skater he is and how fast these kids are now a days People were saying he was slow going into the draft

 

[Filthy Dangles]

Wow, also somehow completely missed the play in the neutral zone in the 2nd video. He basically made a seamless one touch pass to Strome in stride to set up the quick transition. Pace of the NHL is so fast these days it’s hard to catch all these details live.

Yeah, it's an underrated play, bought lotta time and space on the entry. and he knows where to go off the puck, definitely more than Kakko in his rookie year. he's done that a bunch of times where he follows the Ranger player on that side, where they exchange lanes to try and cause confusion. like they did there, a simple 2on2 turns into an outnumbered attack.

 

[True Blue]

It's frustrating for sure not to be winning and not seeing the numbers. I do agree with the people who said Laf has looked tentative. It's not a zero sum game (entirey Quinn's fault) though. And Quinn is not entirely shit-free either with his laissez faire approach to the veterans. We're in the "stop that shit" phase, knocking out bad habits before they become embedded in these kids. We're in the socialize that cat before it becomes feral phase.

I think that is pretty much hitting it on the head.

And yes, he has looked tentative. But only at times. Overall, he has looked fine. People forget that in the Q, he was and thinks of himself as a facilitator. And he has set up some of the vets with glorious chances that have not been buried. And he has had some chances that have not been buried.

Appearing to be at times tentative is natural for a 19 year old rookie. It is expected. What seems silly is to heap this on the coach. Maybe a 19 year old rookie appears tentative because, well he is a 19 year old rookie in the NHL and is not somehow getting his talent coached out of him by his wicked coach?

It is still a small window, but young players tend to get better under Quinn. So, as they say, trust the process. And that can go for Lafreniere, for Kakko, and for the whole rebuild. Rome was not built in a day, despite some people's need for instant gratification or the delusions of grandeur that they have crafted around their team after spending most of a year in a lock down situation.