Player Discussion Alexis Lafrenière

[Scott r]

If strome finishes the give and go no one is bitching in here today...

Right...if i only nought the scratch off ticket..but other guy did n won 25k. Reality...the mental aspect cant be overlooked. Misses matter longterm

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Frankly

I’m annoyed at the kid more than anyone else. He showed last night he isn’t overmatched like kakko was last year. He can skate and make plays at top speed. It’s there.

He’s not playing well. That’s why I’m annoyed. He’s playing like shit. He’s WAY better than this. Right now. Not talking two years from now. Right now he’s way too good to have one point. It’s absurd. Should Quinn have him on the PP to get him going. Yes. Should Quinn not be moving him to right wing two days into his rookie season. No he shouldn’t.

but lafreniere is a bonafide clear cut first overall pick. This is bullshit hockey from him. No need to coddle or worry about development. He should step in and produce.

When I see Lafrenière play, I can't help but think back to that quote by Kakko last year...

"Towards the end of the season I didn't really try anything special because if I tried something, then coach said Don't do this and don't do that"

Would this affect Lafrenière as well? Because it honestly doesn't look like he is playing his own style. The plays we have seen him make in the past just aren't there.

 

[True Blue]

How bout Laine..mathews....etc...they scored before they were able to BUY beer. I dont think he has it to be honest.

Do you want to go down the line to see if what Matthews did is the exception or the rule for kids that age stepping into the league? Or the amount of goals that Laine has?

Do you then want to find a single example of a teenager stepping into the league under the same circumstances that Lafreneire has? This really cannot be stated enough. The kid should playing his first few games of the regular season in normal circumstances. Normal circumstances would have also not had him skating on a backyard rink for 10 months. Who else started their career this way?

Kakko already isnt the scorer...lafren ??

I honestly have no idea of what this means.

 

[bleedblue94]

Right...if i only nought the scratch off ticket..but other guy did n won 25k. Reality...the mental aspect cant be overlooked. Misses matter longterm

Right, but as you said that is long term and we have people in here trying to micro analyze this kid after 12 games on a team that really is struggling to score in general. Laf is suppose to be a complimentary scorer on the roster this year, not the focal piece. I got blasted after the lottery for suggesting that in order to lengthen the lineup and create more depth he play with zib and buch, people saying that was demanding too much of a rookie by putting him on a top line and blah blah blah, yet now he is crushed for struggling to put up points on a team that is currently inept offensively as if it is his fault. So we want him sheltered but we want to blame him, makes no sense...

 

[True Blue]

When I see Lafrenière play, I can't help but think back to that quote by Kakko last year...

"Towards the end of the season I didn't really try anything special because if I tried something, then coach said Don't do this and don't do that"

Would this affect Lafrenière as well? Because it honestly doesn't look like he is playing his own style. The plays we have seen him make in the past just aren't there.

Again, what coach is going to allow 18 or 19 year olds to play outside of the structure or system?

Do you think that if Trotz was coaching this team he would allow Kakko and Lafreniere to simply do what they feel like outside of his structure?

You've seen Lafreniere make "those plays" in juniors. Not against the best players in the world in the best league in the world.

Kakko can say anything he wants, but the reality is that he wanted to do what worked for him in Liga. What worked for him in Liga was turning out fairly disastrously results in the NHL. Part of coaching is breaking rookies of bad habits. Lafreniere could mask his bad habits in Canadian juniors. Kakko could mask them in Liga. There is no masking them in the NHL. The Liga version of Kakko would have had an excellent career.........in Liga.

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

When I see Lafrenière play, I can't help but think back to that quote by Kakko last year...

"Towards the end of the season I didn't really try anything special because if I tried something, then coach said Don't do this and don't do that"

Would this affect Lafrenière as well? Because it honestly doesn't look like he is playing his own style. The plays we have seen him make in the past just aren't there.

Dude, we get it. You don't like Quinn. How many threads you gonna post this quote in? What's the context of this quote? You really think Laf (or Kakko for that matter) look afraid to make a play. I'm not going to get on a coach for wanting young players to learn how to play a complete game. This ain't Liga or the Q.

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

I think you just made up some narrative and I effing hate when people use the word 'narrative'.

You are intellectually bankrupt

 

[Edge]

If strome finishes the give and go last night no one is bitching in here today...

Honestly at this point, I want them to start getting points that match their play just to stop some of the nonsense that has permeated this board like a f***ing disease lately.

Because it's obvious that it doesn't matter what the hell the kids do.

Someone buries those chances, and Laf gets credit for four assists in the last two games = good.

Someone doesn't bury those chances and nothing shows up in the box score = bad.

Meanwhile nothing changed in the areas that Laf can actually control.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Lafreniere has been fine.

he’s been crazy unlucky. He hasn’t been omg take over the game good, but that will come with time.

 

[Made Dan]

Torn because we need to get him away from Howden but feel he was holding the top lines back..

 

[bleedblue94]

Honestly at this point, I want them to start getting points that match their play just to stop some of the nonsense that has permeated this board like a f***ing disease lately.

Because it's obvious that it doesn't matter what the hell they do.

Someone buries those chances, and Laf gets credit for four assists in the last two games = good.

Someone doesn't bury those chances and nothing shows up in the box score = bad.

Meanwhile nothing changed in the areas that Laf can actually control.

Once the dam really breaks the production will flood. The first 20 or so games (maybe longer with his layoff) is all about legs under body and understanding the NHL game and structure. Once that is all in place than the string will loosen a little as production grows. It is a process. It is funny how last year Kakko played a insane amount of hockey prior to his rookie year and then Laf goes nine-ish months without playing before his rookie year. That is part of why I wish they sent him to the WJC to get reps and get his legs and game going before the NHL season started. It is one thing for guys coming in to know what to expect and another for pure rookies. Even Miller had the reps during the bubble to figure out what to expect this season and he expressed how much that helped him. Without his bubble experience last year I doubt we see him becoming so good and comfortable as quickly as he has this year.

 

[will1066]

When I see Lafrenière play, I can't help but think back to that quote by Kakko last year...

"Towards the end of the season I didn't really try anything special because if I tried something, then coach said Don't do this and don't do that"

Would this affect Lafrenière as well? Because it honestly doesn't look like he is playing his own style. The plays we have seen him make in the past just aren't there.

I do think that Quinn has a double-standard for the kids. The vets get away with all their fancy doodle shit, but the kids get reprimanded for doing the same. But then, this is what a developmental coach should do, right? NHL players are better at defending "anything special" than junior-level and European-league players. Yes, Quinn might be turning Kakko and Laf into grinders and stunt their offensive creativity for now. I think that will be temporary. You might as well give Kakko and Laf a fundamental foundation for their NHL games while they continue to mature physically and in the head to process the NHL game and speed. Then the "anything special" will come back when they can do it at NHL speed. The other big thing is camouflage. Besides NHL speed, NHL defenders read them like a book after a few shifts with them. They will need to camouflage what they plan to do. Or, they need to mature to become so dominant that even though defenders know what's coming, they can't stop it. Last year every time Kakko tried to deke, the defender put his stick right where Kakko was bringing the puck to when he made the pivot. You might have a 98 mile per hour fastball, but a major league hitter who knows that the fastball is coming will smack it 450 feet out of the park.

 

[bleedblue94]

I do think that Quinn has a double-standard for the kids. The vets get away with all their fancy doodle shit, but the kids get reprimanded for doing the same. But then, this is what a developmental coach should do, right? NHL players are better at defending "anything special" than junior-level and European-league players. Yes, Quinn might be turning Kakko and Laf into grinders and stunt their offensive creativity for now. I think that will be temporary. You might as well give Kakko and Laf a fundamental foundation for their NHL games while they continue to mature physically and in the head to process the NHL game and speed. Then the "anything special" will come back when they can do it at NHL speed. The other big thing is camouflage. Besides NHL speed, NHL defenders read them like a book after a few shifts with them. They will need to camouflage what they plan to do. Or, they need to mature to become so dominant that even though defenders know what's coming, they can't stop it. Last year every time Kakko tried to deke, the defender put his stick right where Kakko was bringing the puck to when he made the pivot. You might have a 98 mile per hour fastball, but a major league hitter who knows that the fastball is coming will smack it 450 feet out of the park.

My biggest issue with Quinn is coaching elite offensive talent kids the same way he coaches guys like gauthier and PDG. The latter need a leash bc they contribute but they don't have that game altering ability. The former have that ability. Kakko really didn't earn a leash last year bc he was struggling just getting around the ice for most of the games (always looked gassed). Players that DO alter a game with their skill get a longer leash, it can be a bit of a paradox though, not getting the leash to demonstrate skill vs needing the leash to demonstrate the skill. That is why I think he is trying to coach these guys into the team structure first and then will loosen it up later. My biggest issue is sometimes we have no clue WHAT the team structure even is...

 

[will1066]

My biggest issue with Quinn is coaching elite offensive talent kids the same way he coaches guys like gauthier and PDG. The latter need a leash bc they contribute but they don't have that game altering ability. The former have that ability. Kakko really didn't earn a leash last year bc he was struggling just getting around the ice for most of the games (always looked gassed). Players that DO alter a game with their skill get a longer leash, it can be a bit of a paradox though, not getting the leash to demonstrate skill vs needing the leash to demonstrate the skill. That is why I think he is trying to coach these guys into the team structure first and then will loosen it up later. My biggest issue is sometimes we have no clue WHAT the team structure even is...

Kakko's first few games last year, he tried a lot of his go-to moves. The dekes along the wall, the WRAPAROUND. Clearly they didn't work at the NHL level. So that's when Quinn put the proverbial leash on. It wasn't like Kakko tried things one time and got the hook. A lot of success in the NHL comes from doing the small things. The other night, he chipped the puck off the wall to create the goal on the rush. The more he learns to do that type of stuff, the better he will become overall.

 

[NYRangers0723]

If strome finishes the give and go last night no one is bitching in here today..

.

who knows our fan base is notorious for bitching lol. Our fans want him to be a superstar this very instant which isn’t fair to the kid. He is actually playing well he just has had bad luck when it comes to goals/assists. He could easily have at least 3 more goals along with a few assists. Chytil being out hurts because I think Lad would benefit playing with him. But ranger fans need to show more patience

 

[Rangers in 7]

Honestly at this point, I want them to start getting points that match their play just to stop some of the nonsense that has permeated this board like a f***ing disease lately.

Because it's obvious that it doesn't matter what the hell the kids do.

Someone buries those chances, and Laf gets credit for four assists in the last two games = good.

Someone doesn't bury those chances and nothing shows up in the box score = bad.

Meanwhile nothing changed in the areas that Laf can actually control.

i think you are missing the point that SOME on here have....last night he took the puck in his own zone and exploded down the ice for a 2 on 1.....where the hell has that been, its like hes playing scared at all times.

im not saying dont play within the structure but at the same time he can still outplay 70% of the people he steps on the ice with, that is how good he is and instead hes holding back

i will also agree playing with howden and pdg is stupid

 

[HatTrick Swayze]

How bout Laine..mathews....etc...they scored before they were able to BUY beer. I dont think he has it to be honest. Kakko already isnt the scorer...lafren ??

Laine is a perfect example. He is 22 and is still a one-dimensional player that makes the same mistakes especially in the defensive zone. Many fans want to go reins off, play loose, rack up points...how's that working in Edmonton despite their impressive rookie numbers?

Kakko is miles better defensively and with the details in transition than he was last season, that is real improvement. And now the last few games but especially last night, the offensive chances are really coming as well. The cycle game he was famous for pre-draft is coming on. Now obviously you want your scorers to be scorers and that requires a level of creativity and fearlessness. But if you get only that at the expense of all the other things that go into winning hockey at the NHL level, is it worth it? The NYR goal isn't to produce gaudy scorers so they can sell tickets or sell jerseys (they will do plenty of that regardless) to prop up a small market - it's to win the Stanley Cup.

 

[Captain Monglobster]

These kids are learning positioning, defensive responsibility, getting used to NHL timing, becoming non-liabilities on the ice.

When all of this becomes more second nature to them, the offensive aspects of their games will come. You cant put the cart before the horse in the NHL. They are not going to dictate the pace of the game in their first few seasons, expecting that is pretty absurd.

 

[bleedblue94]

Kakko's first few games last year, he tried a lot of his go-to moves. The dekes along the wall, the WRAPAROUND. Clearly they didn't work at the NHL level. So that's when Quinn put the proverbial leash on. It wasn't like Kakko tried things one time and got the hook. A lot of success in the NHL comes from doing the small things. The other night, he chipped the puck off the wall to create the goal on the rush. The more he learns to do that type of stuff, the better he will become overall.

I agree with this, I was more referencing the quote that stat boy keeps bringing up from KK at the end of last season regarding KK essentially saying he stopped being creative bc the coaches kept telling him not to. That is all a biproduct of learning the nhl game, and at some point these elite offensive talents need to be allowed some flexibility otherwise you neuter their skill. Larionov spoke about this in the NHL just prior to leaving. We will see how it plays out throughout the season here

 

[Edge]

i think you are missing the point that SOME on here have....last night he took the puck in his own zone and exploded down the ice for a 2 on 1.....where the hell has that been, its like hes playing scared at all times.

im not saying dont play within the structure but at the same time he can still outplay 70% of the people he steps on the ice with, that is how good he is and instead hes holding back

i will also agree playing with howden and pdg is stupid

Here's the thing though, some people will literally dwell on something like that and have it eclipse everything else he did.

That's fine if that's an observation, but holy shit it shouldn't be the title of the report either.

 

[Synergy27]

Honestly at this point, I want them to start getting points that match their play just to stop some of the nonsense that has permeated this board like a f***ing disease lately.

Because it's obvious that it doesn't matter what the hell the kids do.

Someone buries those chances, and Laf gets credit for four assists in the last two games = good.

Someone doesn't bury those chances and nothing shows up in the box score = bad.

Meanwhile nothing changed in the areas that Laf can actually control.

Edge, I totally get where you are coming from and you will most likely end up being right in the end. That said, this excuse most certainly has a shelf life. That shelf life is debatable of course.

If we want to write this entire season off that’s fine. I agree that the pandemic and its impact on games and training is a significant factor. But, this argument can also be turned around and someone could credibly claim that that missed time as an 18/19 year old could have devastating long term effects on his development and that the results might never come because of it.

The give and go with Strome last night was a nice play. It wasn’t some super high end pass that leaves you banging your head against the wall when it’s ultimately not buried (like the Mika tap in from the Kreider pass).

If we’re going to hang our hats on the chances being there and regression ultimately leading to results, I think a fair compromise would be to try to agree on a point whereafter we all expect the flip to actual results to occur.

What would make you happy? 0.5PPG by the all star break next year assuming there’s a normal offseason and the season starts on time next summer? If he scores at a 20 point pace next year (which is more than double his current pace) are we good with that as long as he’s still involved in chances?

 

[EdJovanovski]

If Kakko & Laf are capable of taking over games and scoring over a point per game they’d be doing it, I don’t think Quinn would get mad lmao. It’s just a cope to me.

 

[Rangers in 7]

Here's the thing though, some people will literally dwell on something like that and have it eclipse everything else he did.

That's fine if that's an observation, but holy shit it shouldn't be the title of the report either.

There’s not much else he’s doing out there other then trying to put the puck in the back of the net

 

[will1066]

I agree with this, I was more referencing the quote that stat boy keeps bringing up from KK at the end of last season regarding KK essentially saying he stopped being creative bc the coaches kept telling him not to. That is all a biproduct of learning the nhl game, and at some point these elite offensive talents need to be allowed some flexibility otherwise you neuter their skill. Datsyuk spoke about this in the NHL just prior to leaving. We will see how it plays out throughout the season here

Curious what Datsyuk said. I must've missed this. Yes, more flexibility will come once they have shown that they have established a foundation that Quinn is looking for. That, of course, is in Quinn's mind and is a moving target. I'm not Quinn (despite my profile pic), and I know there isn't some quantifiable threshold where it clicks and Quinn removes the leash. But you can see that Quinn is comfortable with Fox and with Miller. He's not telling Miller to stay back or keeping him on the bench after a mistake. But it is evident that Quinn is getting comfortable with Kakko slowly.

 

[Edge]

Edge, I totally get where you are coming from and you will most likely end up being right in the end. That said, this excuse most certainly has a shelf life. That shelf life is debatable of course.

If we want to write this entire season off that’s fine. I agree that the pandemic and its impact on games and training is a significant factor. But, this argument can also be turned around and someone could credibly claim that that missed time as an 18/19 year old could have devastating long term effects on his development and that the results might never come because of it.

The give and go with Strome last night was a nice play. It wasn’t some super high end pass that leaves you banging your head against the wall when it’s ultimately not buried (like the Mika tap in from the Kreider pass).

If we’re going to hang our hats on the chances being there and regression ultimately leading to results, I think a fair compromise would be to try to agree on a point whereafter we all expect the flip to actual results to occur.

What would make you happy? 0.5PPG by the all star break next year assuming there’s a normal offseason and the season starts on time next summer? If he scores at a 20 point pace next year (which is more than double his current pace) are we good with that?

Let's see where he's at, and where this team is at in a month or so. Then we can start penciling in benchmarks for the mid-point of 2022.

I'm hesitant to go down the points rabbit hole at this juncture because we're already seeing what happens in the Kakko discussions where the kid should be scoring at a .5 pace and yet he isn't at this point, through very little fault of his own.

Meanwhile, Ryan Stroke somehow has 4 goals and 6 points despite playing like what comes out of the back end of a horse after indulging in a chili cook-off.