Player Discussion Alexis Lafrenière

[DanielBrassard]

I'm just not seeing the great plays from Lafrenierre. He's made good passes and had a couple good scoring chances, but nothing about his statline feels unfair/asymmetrical to what I see him doing.

He hasn't been bad--but I'll keep saying, he doesn't look much better than Kakko did ten games in.

I agree, seems like some of us are watching a different game than others quite frankly. Which great plays has he made? I can think of a couple off the top of my head, but in 11 games with 0 points outside of a 3v3 OT goal off the rush where he just had to shoot the puck into a wide open net that's not exactly impressive.

 

[TheDirtyH]

I agree, seems like some of us are watching a different game than others quite frankly. Which great plays has he made? I can think of a couple off the top of my head, but in 11 games with 0 points outside of a 3v3 OT goal off the rush where he just had to shoot the puck into a wide open net that's not exactly impressive.

Like Kakko, Lafrenierre has always dominated from the offensive blueline in. And like Kakko, he very very rarely has the puck on his stick in the offensive zone. He's made some good passes off the rush. Nothing where I was like---'WTF how did that not go in'.

 

[BroadwayStorm]

I think I fall on both sides of the issue here.

While I think they are showing signs of development, I am still very disappointed in their lack of production.

Both are considered very good offensive players ready for the NHL and neither has stood out offensively....at all. and that's a concern. A legit concern.

That said, I am 1000% comfortable waiting for the development to continue. My only hope is that their offensive abilities are not being coached out of them in an effort to make them better 2-way players.

This is what I suspect is happening. I think I saw the amazing kreiderman make this point in his podcast when Kakko flat out said it in an interview in Finland. Quinn does not let them play their game.

 

[BroadwayStorm]

I don't care about stats but why is it a crime to ask for some offensive flashes from both guys? Maybe once this season we can see why we picked Lafreniere 1st? Or something that says "yeah, that's why Kakko is #2 overall". Why does it have to be one or the other? I'm patient and i think both guys will be very good but why can't i ask for more offensive plays from them?

None of this is going to happen with David Quinn as the coach. The way he manages is destructive to players trying to get minutes to develop in this league. Just look at the PP. It's statistically an atrocity. But all the passing is pretty so let's keep these bums in for a 1:30 and give the second unit which features all the young guys some 30 seconds to chase the puck. Quinn is an asshole.

 

[DanielBrassard]

Like Kakko, Lafrenierre has always dominated from the offensive blueline in. And like Kakko, he very very rarely has the puck on his stick in the offensive zone. He's made some good passes off the rush. Nothing where I was like---'WTF how did that not go in'.

Exactly. I don't think it's asking for much to want to see these guys hold onto the puck, maintain a cycle and set up their teammates once in a while. The idea the people who are being critical are asking for the world out of these guys is a strawman. Admittedly, Kakko has been doing it more often which is nice

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

This is what I suspect is happening. I think I saw the amazing kreiderman make this point in his podcast when Kakko flat out said it in an interview in Finland. Quinn does not let them play their game.

I understand a coach trying to teach a young player something and help him refine the way he plays his game, but when it leads to a player being afraid to make a play, like Kakko said in that interview, then the coach is losing track of what's important. A player shouldn't be afraid to make a play.

 

[TheDirtyH]

Exactly. I don't think it's asking for much to want to see these guys hold onto the puck, maintain a cycle and set up their teammates once in a while. The idea the people who are being critical are asking for the world out of these guys is a strawman. Admittedly, Kakko has been doing it more often which is nice

Without Mika playing as we are used to seeing, Buchnevich (and of all people PDG) is the only forward who will take the puck from the perimeter to the crease. We get plenty of traffic and stationary players for tips and point shots, but nobody actually drives the puck towards the goal themselves.

This is also what Kakko and Lafrenierre have most excelled at (IMO) their whole pre-NHL careers. It's why it's concerning that it's not happening. I don't doubt they're good enough. I don't doubt that they're capable of it. And frankly, it's not really that 'high risk' in today's NHL. Even on the pp, the object should be to keep pressing the box tighter and tighter. 5v5 isn't all that different in that respect.

So, I'm not blaming Quinn, I'm just noticing that these two kids aren't playing by their bread and butter. I don't know why, but none of the answers thus far (if you can call them that) have been very allaying.

 

[True Blue]

This is what I suspect is happening. I think I saw the amazing kreiderman make this point in his podcast when Kakko flat out said it in an interview in Finland. Quinn does not let them play their game.

The next coach that allows 18 year olds to play however they feel like will be the first one. The Liga version of Kakko was an atrocious version in the NHL. A complete turnover machine. Now, his game is better. That is what happens. What worked in Liga for Kakko and Canadian juniors for Lafreniere is not really going to work against the best players in the world, in the top league in the world.

None of this is going to happen with David Quinn as the coach. The way he manages is destructive to players trying to get minutes to develop in this league. Just look at the PP. It's statistically an atrocity. But all the passing is pretty so let's keep these bums in for a 1:30 and give the second unit which features all the young guys some 30 seconds to chase the puck. Quinn is an asshole.

I mean look at the way that Quinn ruined Buchnevich and Chytil. Sooooooo destructive. And don't even bring up a Miller or Fox or Lindgren. That is even worse destruction.

We have officially reached QDS. Quinn Derangement Syndrome.

 

[pld459666]

What would be an acceptable stat line for you for both players 10 games into the season?

Lets just say that I expected both to have better stat lines the Kevin Rooney and Colin Blackwell.

 

[LTIR]

Is this kid good yet? I pulled his rookie young guns card hoping he ups its value soon.

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

Lets just say that I expected both to have better stat lines the Kevin Rooney and Colin Blackwell.

Do you for a second think they won't end up much better players than those two? This is my point, people getting hung up on points so early in the season is ludicrous. So four points (one better than Rooney) would mean exactly what to you? They'd still be the exact same players they are on the exact same career trajectory.

 

[pld459666]

Do you for a second think they won't end up much better players than those two? This is my point, people getting hung up on points so early in the season is ludicrous. So four points (one better than Rooney) would mean exactly what to you? They'd still be the exact same players they are on the exact same career trajectory.

We shall see. I hope to god that they do, but thus far, neither have shown capable AND that' while playing with better players most of the time.

They were drafted as offensive players that are not showing much offensively.

Again, I am comfortable waiting for the development, but I'd like for them to show the faithful why they were taken 1 & 2 overall. And it's not because they back-check. That's a bonus.

 

[JCProdigy]

Your posts are more about blind optimism though. I don't see most people being impatient. I see most people bringing up legitimate concerns.

If you look at my past posts regarding Lafreniere. I expect him to, at the very least, perform at the level previous teenagers have (about a .48 pt/gm) over his first season. Yeah I'd be a little concerned if he did not approach that. I also posted what each of the 1OA picks (last ten years) have done in their first 10 NHL games. Am I bummed that he has not scored pts yet? Yep and I've said so. Am I overly concerned? No, not 11 games into his career because the sample size is way too small. Lets talk about it after 40 games.

Also I personally believe the way things got all screwed up because of covid is a valid reasoning for some augmentation of early expectation. It would be hypocritical of me not to feel so as I've felt this for those that work under me in real life and I definitely gave them more leeway and lowered my expectations on their work output as the way they had to go about many things was turned upside down. Of course, that has a shelf life and it has expired for them and it should for Laf as well as he gets more acclimated to the pro game.

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

We shall see. I hope to god that they do, but thus far, neither have shown capable AND that' while playing with better players most of the time.

They were drafted as offensive players that are not showing much offensively.

Again, I am comfortable waiting for the development, but I'd like for them to show the faithful why they were taken 1 & 2 overall. And it's not because they back-check. That's a bonus.

I think it's easy to point to Kakko's stat line as proof that he's not playing well, but that's not the case. If people want to be down on him, they can but he's been head and shoulders better than he was last year. As far a Laf, it would be great to see him pot a few but you can tell the game is just coming to him a little too quickly but he'll learn. However, that doesn't mean the coach should cut them loose and be like, hey go score a bunch of goals and forget the defense. Because the truth of the matter is, if they could, they would. And what they do in the defensive zone has no bearing on what they do or aren't doing in the offensive zone.

And there's not another team on the planet that wouldn't have taken them where the Rangers did.

 

[IDvsEGO]

I think it's easy to point to Kakko's stat line as proof that he's not playing well, but that's not the case. If people want to be down on him, they can but he's been head and shoulders better than he was last year. As far a Laf, it would be great to see him pot a few but you can tell the game is just coming to him a little too quickly but he'll learn. However, that doesn't mean the coach should cut them loose and be like, hey go score a bunch of goals and forget the defense. Because the truth of the matter is, if they could, they would. And what they do in the defensive zone has no bearing on what they do or aren't doing in the offensive zone.

And there's not another team on the planet that wouldn't have taken them where the Rangers did.

im actually gonna disagree with your point on laf. I see no evidence that the game is moving too fast for him. I see plenty of evidence that his current line mates can’t do things with the puck, and when he makes a play that involves them it ends up being a negative.
I’ve seen plenty of plays from laf where he’s gone to the high danger areas, gotten the puck because he’s in the right space at the right time, and had a great chance and the goalie made a save. That’s not the game moving too fast, that’s hes being robbed on chances, and it’s going to start falling.
also once chytil comes back I think you’ll see a much better game because either chytil will be his center or Strome, and both are massive upgrades over Howden.

 

[Casper The Soy Ghost]

2 point game incoming, at least 1 goal.

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

im actually gonna disagree with your point on laf. I see no evidence that the game is moving too fast for him. I see plenty of evidence that his current line mates can’t do things with the puck, and when he makes a play that involves them it ends up being a negative.
I’ve seen plenty of plays from laf where he’s gone to the high danger areas, gotten the puck because he’s in the right space at the right time, and had a great chance and the goalie made a save. That’s not the game moving too fast, that’s hes being robbed on chances, and it’s going to start falling.
also once chytil comes back I think you’ll see a much better game because either chytil will be his center or Strome, and both are massive upgrades over Howden.

I agree with everything you’ve said except for the speed of the game part. Just my opinion but he seems a step behind the action.

 

[IDvsEGO]

I agree with everything you’ve said except for the speed of the game part. Just my opinion but he seems a step behind the action.

Watch where he is when the puck is in the offensive zone. He’s right on top of the play, and the puck is almost always touching his stick, that’s not behind the play.

 

[nyr2k2]

It's funny because he looks wayyyy better than Kakko did last season, yet he'll probably end up worse by counting stats.

 

[mas0764]

Based on what? Lafreniere not being on the board enough or Kakko not having 8 goals at this point? There is more than enough progress with Kakko to be happy. And the circumstances surrounding how Lafreneire entered the league are completely unprecedented. And he has been on the receiving end of some poor puck luck.

That is all true but it’s also true that he’s not producing at the rate of other top picks that we hope he is like.

It can be explained, but it’s also concerning.

 

[Waterbuf]

Yeah you can explain this pretty rationally but I still look around the league and see all these other nobodies getting at least a few points here and there with pucks bouncing in off their asses and whatnot. Jesus.

 

[Hire Sather]

At some point he has to produce. Certainly disappointing, however you want to spin it.

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

Watch where he is when the puck is in the offensive zone. He’s right on top of the play, and the puck is almost always touching his stick, that’s not behind the play.

i saw flashes of a special player tonight and saw equal flashes of a kid 11 games into his pro career playing tentative. I’m ok with it though. He fine on the 3rd line, let him earn a promotion.

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

At some point he has to produce. Certainly disappointing, however you want to spin it.

yeah normally I would agree, but this team is so broken right now, if Zibanejad and Panarin also can't produce, what chance does Laf have

 

[IDvsEGO]

i saw flashes of a special player tonight and saw equal flashes of a kid 11 games into his pro career playing tentative. I’m ok with it though. He fine on the 3rd line, let him earn a promotion.

So that give and go with Strome. That’s a talented play. His game went up as soon as he got away from Howden.