Alex Pietrangelo?
- Thread starter Beniers10 Hughes86
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The Blues drafted him knowing he would take a while to hit the NHL. He has looked pretty good in the pre-season and pretty bad at times as well. Offensively he is very NHL-ready, but he has some work to do defensively and mentally.
Everyone pretty much assumed that he had a top 6 spot with the Blues wrapped up and it was his to lose; however, with his rather pedestrian pre-season and the emergence of Ian Cole, who has outplayed him, it is very possible that he gets some time in the AHL to adjust. Many Blues fans would probably be outraged at this, but I don't see the big deal... it doesn't change the fact that he will still be a very good player. Much more the norm than guys like Doughty and Myers who are freaks (in a good way) at such a young age. They are the rare case.
Everyone pretty much assumed that he had a top 6 spot with the Blues wrapped up and it was his to lose; however, with his rather pedestrian pre-season and the emergence of Ian Cole, who has outplayed him, it is very possible that he gets some time in the AHL to adjust. Many Blues fans would probably be outraged at this, but I don't see the big deal... it doesn't change the fact that he will still be a very good player. Much more the norm than guys like Doughty and Myers who are freaks (in a good way) at such a young age. They are the rare case.
Problem with him is that he needs to be more assertive. Some guys never develop that and remain too passive which hurts them especially in the NHL and its fast pace. Cole's style is perfectly suited for the NHL which would explain the above comment. I think he will be a slow developer. At some pt, and no one knows when this will be, the light will go on and Pietrangelo should flourish.
EastonBlues22
Registered User
This needs qualification. Pietrangelo is as assertive as can be in an offensive role...by far the most aggressive defenseman offensively the Blues have. However, his defensive game is a study in contrast as it is basically positional/passive in nature. In my experience, that style discrepancy tends to leave fans with the impression that he "doesn't care" in the defensive zone or that he is poor defensively. Both are misconceptions, IMO.
Personally, I don't think Pietrangelo needs to become any more aggressive in the defensive zone to thrive defensively at the NHL level. MacInnis, for example, became a great defender as he matured playing a passive style. Lidstrom, of course, is another obvious example. He has good gap control, an excellent reach, he reads the play well, uses his stick well, and has the skating to stay with pretty much anyone and recover quickly when necessary. IMO, the biggest thing holding him back defensively is a lack of selective aggression offensively...and that should come with time as he learns what he can get away with and what he can't at the NHL level. He still needs to add muscle to his frame to help him in battles along the boards and in front of the net, but that will also come with time.
Everyone loves aggression in the defensive zone, but it's not the only way to play defense well. What's more, an aggressive defense style can lead to much better scoring opportunities for the opposition than a passive one if the aggression isn't selectively applied. I think fans (generally speaking) tend to forget that far too often.
I think Pietrangelo will be better than all of them except Ekman-Larsson. I've always been impressed with him, and have yet to find anything in his game worth disliking.
EastonBlues22
Registered User
Beniers10 Hughes86
Release the Kraken!
You wonder why? All have proven a lot more than Pietrangelo and still are ranked behind him for some reason.
OEL has proven the least, but still was awsome at the World Championships and the WJC
Karlsson has proven to be a young top 4 puckmover at the age of 20
Del Zotto has proven to be a young top 4 puckmover at the age of 20
Subban probably could have been a young top 4 puckmover last season
Pietrangelo is overrated. These players (excluding OEL and Subban although they should be able to have similar rookie seasons) have done what Pietrangelo hopes to do in his first NHL season. Right now they are ranked behind him because Pietrangelo was a 4th overall pick, that's really the only reason. He's going to be 21 soon and still won't be in the NHL, not that the Blues need to rush him but he's had plenty of time to make the roster. Now Ian Cole has beaten him out for a spot, despite Pietrangelo already given an advantage because he was picked so high. No more excuses.
25 OHL games played last year.
36 the year before that.
Out of what.. 68 games they play in an OHL schedule?
Looks to be head issues, I mean, I'm not poo-pooing the guy, I'm just curious.
Hooch314
Registered User
- Mar 16, 2008
- 2,259
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He was with the Blues the rest of the time. Not hurt.
Are you kidding? How can you say that about him then excuse it for OEL?
You said OEL hasn't proven anything, but that he was great in the WJC. If I recall that's the exact same WJC that Pietrangelo just won best defenseman in. Unless, you know, it was that other WJC.
Ian Cole has not beaten him out of anything. He is very much on the Blues this season.
He was also drafted where he was because of his ceiling. Every report said it would take a long time for him to fill out. He also had some really bad non-hockey related health issues at the time. It took him a while to recover from that.
You walk with a pretty big stick talking about a guy doing EXACTLY what was expected of him for the past 2 years in the EXACT time frame it was expected.
He started on the Blues roster in both years and in the case of the first year was kept around until WJC I think. He didn't stick because he has not developed fully yet, and the Blues didn't have room for him and aren't willing to rush him. He does need work in the defensive zone but that will come with time. Hale, just because Pietro hasn't proved anything on the NHL level yet does not mean you can say he's overrated, especially since most young d-men only really reach their potential in their later twenties.
OEL is a year younger and has played well at a major tournament. If he's not in the NHL next year I'd say the same thing.
Your post still doesn't change the fact the other 3 are playing in the NHL, producing and looking fantastic while Pietrangelo isn't. At least not yet, like you said he could still make the roster. What I don't understand is why he is ranked so far above, despite proving nothing while the others (Karlsson, Carlson, MDZ) are the same age and are where Pietrangelo hopes to be this season or next season, seeing as how these 3 did far better than expected it will probably be next season. Like I said right now Pietrangelo's draft standing and hype is why he's the "better" prospect.
EastonBlues22
Registered User
Well, rankings are usually based off long term projections, so a player's first NHL season at age 20-21 isn't going to skew that a whole lot. There are two parts to having a great career: 1) Having a high production ceiling. 2) Demonstrating the ability to be consistently productive year after year. None of the players mentioned have had seasons better than what people think Pietrangelo is capable of, so they haven't improved their "ceiling" stock relative to his. And none of those players have played a second NHL season yet (with most of them still a significant amount of games short of completing their first 80 games), so they are no more proven than Pietrangelo is with regards to the second condition. What I'm saying in a nutshell is that the first 20-80 games of an NHL career aren't generally a reliable indicator of how a career is going to go, so you probably shouldn't put a whole lot of stock in it.
As for the rest of your post, Pietrangelo hasn't been beaten out by anyone with regards to making the roster...both Cole and Pietrangelo will be with the team to start the year. You really should take a few minutes to research something like that if you're going to use it to bash a player/situation you're obviously not that familiar with.
Peers
AP needs a lot of work defensively. Has he improved on that in his last 2 seasons in junior?
I recall in the 2009 WJC, Quinn carried 8 Dman and AP was 7th or 8th on the depth chart with Ryan Ellis (who was there to QB the PP). That was shocking to me, but it was an indication that he needed to work on his defensive zone coverage. Had Schenn been returned to junior that year, AP doesn't make team Canada after getting drafted 4th overall.
Perhaps being drafted after Doughty and Bogosian have set the standard too high for AP. Doughty is a Norris finalist and Bogosian is a rock solid top 4 dman now and is developing into a top pairing guy, in the Shea Weber mold. AP just needs to play his game.
AP has the skill set to be very good, but a lot is expected from young blueliners who get heralded as future #1 dmen. They have to do it all nowadays. That's why Mike Green's aura has faded a bit at the end of the season. He's the top point producer for blueliners, but he's not great defensively compared to Keith and Doughty. Too much high risk and high reward.
AP isn't overally physical, and most people assume with a 6'3 200 lb body that he should be. That's not his style. He needs to study Keith, Lidstrom, Niedermayer and how they played in their own zone if he's not going to be very physical. Body positioning and a good stick are the keys to their games.
As for hype, OEL hasn't played a game yet, so everyone is interested in what he can do.
Subban, played great in the playoffs for the Habs and was great in the AHL.
Karlsson and Del Zotto just put in their rookie years in the NHL and were good young puckmovers. Both can still work on their defensive games.
This is a what have you done lately world. Did he do anything amazing in the past 12 months to wow anyone? Dman of the year in the OHL? Great playoff run in the OHL? That would likely explain the lack of hype.
AP needs a lot of work defensively. Has he improved on that in his last 2 seasons in junior?
I recall in the 2009 WJC, Quinn carried 8 Dman and AP was 7th or 8th on the depth chart with Ryan Ellis (who was there to QB the PP). That was shocking to me, but it was an indication that he needed to work on his defensive zone coverage. Had Schenn been returned to junior that year, AP doesn't make team Canada after getting drafted 4th overall.
Perhaps being drafted after Doughty and Bogosian have set the standard too high for AP. Doughty is a Norris finalist and Bogosian is a rock solid top 4 dman now and is developing into a top pairing guy, in the Shea Weber mold. AP just needs to play his game.
AP has the skill set to be very good, but a lot is expected from young blueliners who get heralded as future #1 dmen. They have to do it all nowadays. That's why Mike Green's aura has faded a bit at the end of the season. He's the top point producer for blueliners, but he's not great defensively compared to Keith and Doughty. Too much high risk and high reward.
AP isn't overally physical, and most people assume with a 6'3 200 lb body that he should be. That's not his style. He needs to study Keith, Lidstrom, Niedermayer and how they played in their own zone if he's not going to be very physical. Body positioning and a good stick are the keys to their games.
As for hype, OEL hasn't played a game yet, so everyone is interested in what he can do.
Subban, played great in the playoffs for the Habs and was great in the AHL.
Karlsson and Del Zotto just put in their rookie years in the NHL and were good young puckmovers. Both can still work on their defensive games.
This is a what have you done lately world. Did he do anything amazing in the past 12 months to wow anyone? Dman of the year in the OHL? Great playoff run in the OHL? That would likely explain the lack of hype.
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World Junior Championship top defensive player? Pietro has all the time in the world with our current roster in place, just give him time to prove himself.
Look, being wildly aggressive with high risk plays is one thing. Controlling the play is another. The best players take charge of the play. From what Ive seen of this kid, he is passive and defers way too much on offense.
BlueSinceBirth
Registered User
- Jul 4, 2006
- 621
- 15
While I agree with some points made about Petro, it is getting pretty crazy expecting every top 5 pick to be NHL ready at age 18.
He's a 20 year old defenseman and HF Boards posters just don't have the time to wait for him to make his mark, bust for sure. 
