A lost generation

[mjlee]

So with NHL not going to the Olympics, the WC dead, there will be a generation of players that won't get the opportunity to play for their country during the prime of their years. China games is in 2022, five years from now. Too bad. Maybe it will make more players willing to go to WHC since it will be their only chance to dress in national colours.

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[BalticWarrior]

All because of NHL execs greed, what a shame. The same thinking that brought the NHL the last lockout and one which will bring another one in 2020.

 

[karlstegger]

Well if they miss one OG I'll guess they'll survive it - lots of players before them did. Furthermore lot of things can happen so I wouldn't rule out both OG and WC just yet.

 

[kajoo]

Maybe it will make more players willing to go to WHC since it will be their only chance to dress in national colours.

World Championship remaining as last bastion of international hockey could only benefit from this situation , long term. Well never see teams in their full strength but can still witness great future Worlds with many memorable games. With or without NHLers.

 

[penepi]

And what about (2020) World Cup?

 

[Xokkeu]

And what about (2020) World Cup?

They won't do it if the players opt out of the CBA and they'll opt out.


Oh well I still love the worlds and will save a lot of money not going to NHL games anymore

 

[MaxV]

The worst part about this is that this is about when several NT are expecting significant improvements. I think it could be (or would have been) competitive tournament.

Finns have their golden generation coming up. USA has serious top end talent coming up. Russia might finally bring a defense. Swedes could have a great combo of forwards and defense.

Wrong time for this to happen.

 

[JackSlater]

The worst part about this is that this is about when several NT are expecting significant improvements. I think it could be (or would have been) competitive tournament.

Finns have their golden generation coming up. USA has serious top end talent coming up. Russia might finally bring a defense. Swedes could have a great combo of forwards and defense.

Wrong time for this to happen.

From a Canadian perspective I see it as the opposite in the short term. The 2018 Olympics looked like a great chance for Canada to win with a big talent advantage over everyone else, similar to 2014. In 2022 Finland and USA should be much more talented than they have been in recent years, while Russia should be more balanced. Add in Canada likely being weaker in 2022 and that tournament looks much more difficult to win than a theoretical 2018 tournament would be.

 

[NoMessi]

From a Canadian perspective I see it as the opposite in the short term. The 2018 Olympics looked like a great chance for Canada to win with a big talent advantage over everyone else, similar to 2014. In 2022 Finland and USA should be much more talented than they have been in recent years, while Russia should be more balanced. Add in Canada likely being weaker in 2022 and that tournament looks much more difficult to win than a theoretical 2018 tournament would be.

They indeed had a big advantage in both 2010 and especially 2014. But that was with players drafted before 2009, after that its not That special (except McDavid ofc). A lot of their forwards that was so dominant those years are in a downswing and its not as great ones coming up (although still great). Crosby is 30, Toews had a really poor year this year, Bergeron is 30+ as well, Giroux is getting even slower, stamkos is hurt, Tavares had a bad year for his standards.

Imo they are still the best team, but it should be closer 2018 than in previous years.

Russias offense is also a lot worse than in 2010 since their golden forwards generation of Malkin, Ovechkin, Kovalchuk, Radulov (and Datsyuk&Semin) are on their downswing as well. The next generation of Kuznetsov, Tarasenko and Kucherov are not as good as the others were back then.

Sweden will be competitive since they get all their young stud Ds, depth and Bäckström.

Finland will be better with an older Barkov and Laine, but also some good Ds they missed the last time. Last time Määttä were by far their best defender, now hes their 3rd-4th best. Worse depth in the crease, but Rask is still a top goalie, and Rinne a capable one as well.

Czech Republic will finally field an NHL d-crop and has a couple of young good players up front with Voracek&Krejci as veteran guys.

Switzerland will be able to field a team full of NHL players for the first time.

Slovakia is dead, and has been since 2010.

 

[Frank the Tank]

All because of NHL execs greed, what a shame. The same thinking that brought the NHL the last lockout and one which will bring another one in 2020.

You realize it was the IOC who changed the terms of a deal that was working for all parties and now refuses to negotiate in good faith, right? It's the same organization that has turned the Winter Olympics bid process into a situation that only totalitarian regimes can afford foot the bill that comes with meeting the IOC's exorbitant demands on the host city.

 

[Reindl87]

You realize it was the IOC who changed the terms of a deal that was working for all parties and now refuses to negotiate in good faith, right? It's the same organization that has turned the Winter Olympics bid process into a situation that only totalitarian regimes can afford foot the bill that comes with meeting the IOC's exorbitant demands on the host city.

The cost of today's winter games is simly insane and beyond anything reasonable. 23 years ago the small town of Lillehammer hosted the best games ever. (Oh how incredibly stupid the NHL was back then not to attend, Olympic NHL hockey in Lillehammerin 94 would have been so incredebly good)
Olympic winter games should always be held in areas comparable to Lillehammer and at costs comparable to Lillehammer.

 

[Xokkeu]

The IOC is fairly reprehensible. The NHL is slight less so. Neither of them give a **** about hockey fans.

 

[karlstegger]

The IOC is fairly reprehensible. The NHL is slight less so. Neither of them give a **** about hockey fans.

Well of course they do....no fans = no money. So they simply have to care. But they (NHL) also run a business and have to do what they think benefits them the most in the long run.

 

[Xokkeu]

Well of course they do....no fans = no money. So they simply have to care. But they (NHL) also run a business and have to do what they think benefits them the most in the long run.

Yes true they care as long as we buy tickets and drink beer. But there's no higher purpose to either.

 

[karlstegger]

Yes true they care as long as we buy tickets and drink beer. But there's no higher purpose to either.

Drinking beer always serves a high and noble purpose.

 

[Xokkeu]

Drinking beer always serves a high and noble purpose.

Yeah but I can drink beer and do so many things. Not driving though. Never ever driving.

 

[ulvvf]

You realize it was the IOC who changed the terms of a deal that was working for all parties and now refuses to negotiate in good faith, right? It's the same organization that has turned the Winter Olympics bid process into a situation that only totalitarian regimes can afford foot the bill that comes with meeting the IOC's exorbitant demands on the host city.

First off NHL themself admited that that was not the problem when IIHF step in and offer to cover the cost, they just use it as PR excuse for a while. Secondly, why should NHL get special treatment anyway? That is if anything corruption that they get special treatment, so you should see it as a good thing that IOC said no to that if you are against corruption, and speak of corruption. In the last olympics we had canadias refs in canadas games, that is corruption if anything. But corruption that affect the games is no problem for people like you, only corruption where some big shoot put some extra money in their pocket. Why people care so much about if some bigshoot put some extra money in their pocket or not I do not get, i care far more about the corruption that affect the games, like baised refs etc. Last olympics was basiclly a NHL tournament controlled by USA and canada. You should be against things like that if you against corruption.

 

[ulvvf]

They indeed had a big advantage in both 2010 and especially 2014. But that was with players drafted before 2009, after that its not That special (except McDavid ofc). A lot of their forwards that was so dominant those years are in a downswing and its not as great ones coming up (although still great). Crosby is 30, Toews had a really poor year this year, Bergeron is 30+ as well, Giroux is getting even slower, stamkos is hurt, Tavares had a bad year for his standards.

Imo they are still the best team, but it should be closer 2018 than in previous years.

Russias offense is also a lot worse than in 2010 since their golden forwards generation of Malkin, Ovechkin, Kovalchuk, Radulov (and Datsyuk&Semin) are on their downswing as well. The next generation of Kuznetsov, Tarasenko and Kucherov are not as good as the others were back then.

Sweden will be competitive since they get all their young stud Ds, depth and Bäckström.

Finland will be better with an older Barkov and Laine, but also some good Ds they missed the last time. Last time Määttä were by far their best defender, now hes their 3rd-4th best. Worse depth in the crease, but Rask is still a top goalie, and Rinne a capable one as well.

Czech Republic will finally field an NHL d-crop and has a couple of young good players up front with Voracek&Krejci as veteran guys.

Switzerland will be able to field a team full of NHL players for the first time.

Slovakia is dead, and has been since 2010.

Russia seem to have a more balanced team going forward, have some really intresting young d-men and even if Kucherov, Panarin etc is not as hyped as Ovechkin etc, but do you really think Ovechkin has stand out internationally? I think russia will be just as good if not better.

 

[JackSlater]

They indeed had a big advantage in both 2010 and especially 2014. But that was with players drafted before 2009, after that its not That special (except McDavid ofc). A lot of their forwards that was so dominant those years are in a downswing and its not as great ones coming up (although still great). Crosby is 30, Toews had a really poor year this year, Bergeron is 30+ as well, Giroux is getting even slower, stamkos is hurt, Tavares had a bad year for his standards.

Imo they are still the best team, but it should be closer 2018 than in previous years.

Russias offense is also a lot worse than in 2010 since their golden forwards generation of Malkin, Ovechkin, Kovalchuk, Radulov (and Datsyuk&Semin) are on their downswing as well. The next generation of Kuznetsov, Tarasenko and Kucherov are not as good as the others were back then.

Sweden will be competitive since they get all their young stud Ds, depth and Bäckström.

Finland will be better with an older Barkov and Laine, but also some good Ds they missed the last time. Last time Määttä were by far their best defender, now hes their 3rd-4th best. Worse depth in the crease, but Rask is still a top goalie, and Rinne a capable one as well.

Czech Republic will finally field an NHL d-crop and has a couple of young good players up front with Voracek&Krejci as veteran guys.

Switzerland will be able to field a team full of NHL players for the first time.

Slovakia is dead, and has been since 2010.

I don't see things as that much closer. Canada is probably less strong defensively since 2014 (Keith and Weber aging out) but stronger offensively (adding McDavid, Stamkos, healthy Tavares, Seguin, Marchand and so on). Sweden is about the same as before offensively, weaker in goaltending, stronger in defence. Russia is possibly more balanced as I said, but the defencemen who may one day be elite aren't there yet. USA has better centre depth, but those guys are very young. Goaltending not as strong. Probably more dangerous overall. Finland is more talented than before but those players are very young, and the talent gap from 2014 is so massive that they don't really bridge it. The factors you describe are more likely to be significant in 2022 than they would be in 2018 in my eyes.

 

[ulvvf]

The funny thing is asking him to show evidence of the bias in the video from the games, like say the gold medal game. He consistently refuses.

If you talk about me, please do it directly towards me, instead of trying to backstap me. Act with some class.

Have I? But it is beyond the point, so why even talk about that when it isnt the point anyway? Try to understand the problem. The problem isnt 1 ref decension here and there. The problem is that the tournament allowed a ref that very likely could be baised to be the ref, it do not matter if he was flawless or not. You do not see a problem in a ref getting paid by one side or have a very good reason to be baised to one team, like being from the same country? Should a serious tournament allow that? Should a serious tournament allow one league dicated the rules of the tournament? Isnt that corruption? Btw we saw same thing in all of the games, not just the final, i talk about the whole tournament, even if the final was the worsed.


Btw in the USA- Canada game they shift. In all other games execpt for the final and the USA-Canada game, we had 1 international ref and 1 NHL ref, but in the canada vs USA game, they shift to having 1 ref from usa and 1 from canada. So why did they do that in that game all the suddently? My guess, since the whole tournament was basically controlled by usa and canada, they probabaly didnt want either usa or canada get a benefit in that game from having a baised ref so they evened it out with having 1 from each country. They basically admited the problem themself there.

Btw, speaking of corruption about where olympics shall be played, have you noticed that 2 out 5 of these olympics with NHL players have been played in canada and USA, what is the odds of that happening? And the problem with that is that usa and canada are hockey countries so they get a bigger benefit of playing at home then japan does.

 

[FiLe]

Finland will be better with an older Barkov and Laine, but also some good Ds they missed the last time. Last time Määttä were by far their best defender, now hes their 3rd-4th best. Worse depth in the crease, but Rask is still a top goalie, and Rinne a capable one as well.

One of the things I'm least worried about concerning Finland is that we won't have a top shelf goalie by 2022. We will. I can't say right now who he or they are, but we have too many good young ones, so at least one or two of them will take the necessary steps in the coming five years.

It's far too early to say how they will rank when compared to the other top countries at that time, but when compared to Team Finlands of the past... well, if there's a best-on-best tournament in 2022, that iteration will be the best among them, by a mile. In all positions.

While I'd welcome any true best-on-best, no matter whether it's organized a year, three or five from now, Finland is perhaps the country that will be the least hampered by having a multi-year gap between Sochi and the next one.

 

[John Eichel da GOAT]

So with NHL not going to the Olympics, the WC dead, there will be a generation of players that won't get the opportunity to play for their country during the prime of their years. China games is in 2022, five years from now. Too bad. Maybe it will make more players willing to go to WHC since it will be their only chance to dress in national colours.

Not fair to blame only the execs. The NHLPA will be equally to blame. It all comes down to money and until the owner and NHLPA split everything evenly, neither side will be happy. It will turn into the NBA soon enough where even garbage players are making stupid money.

 

[Jeti]

They indeed had a big advantage in both 2010 and especially 2014. But that was with players drafted before 2009, after that its not That special (except McDavid ofc). A lot of their forwards that was so dominant those years are in a downswing and its not as great ones coming up (although still great). Crosby is 30, Toews had a really poor year this year, Bergeron is 30+ as well, Giroux is getting even slower, stamkos is hurt, Tavares had a bad year for his standards.

Imo they are still the best team, but it should be closer 2018 than in previous years.

I expect 2018 would've been as dominant as 2014 for Canada. The old guard (mostly the famous 2003 draft class and Crosby) is still dominating the playoffs right now, plus you could add McDavid, Scheifele (as a winger in all likelihood), Murray (as a backup), Parayko, and countless others. From the 2014 team the only replacements you'd really have to make are for Kunitz and St. Louis (originally Stamkos' spot, so just send him). They could upgrade on Sharp, Duchene and Hamhuis. Marchand wasn't even on that team and would easily justify a spot now.

Canada most likely would've dominated in 2018. 2022 is where things get interesting IMO. Team USA is really on the upswing - by 2022 they could surpass Canada on defense, they've had great wingers for years now and they finally look to have an elite #1C (or two of them). The NHL (hopefully) isn't so short sighted to ignore the long-term benefits a US gold medal in hockey could have on their own popularity. Then again, the games being in China don't help.

 

[JackSlater]

If you talk about me, please do it directly towards me, instead of trying to backstap me. Act with some class.

Have I? But it is beyond the point, so why even talk about that when it isnt the point anyway? Try to understand the problem. The problem isnt 1 ref decension here and there. The problem is that the tournament allowed a ref that very likely could be baised to be the ref, it do not matter if he was flawless or not. You do not see a problem in a ref getting paid by one side or have a very good reason to be baised to one team, like being from the same country? Should a serious tournament allow that? Should a serious tournament allow one league dicated the rules of the tournament? Isnt that corruption? Btw we saw same thing in all of the games, not just the final, i talk about the whole tournament, even if the final was the worsed.


Btw in the USA- Canada game they shift. In all other games execpt for the final and the USA-Canada game, we had 1 international ref and 1 NHL ref, but in the canada vs USA game, they shift to having 1 ref from usa and 1 from canada. So why did they do that in that game all the suddently? My guess, since the whole tournament was basically controlled by usa and canada, they probabaly didnt want either usa or canada get a benefit in that game from having a baised ref so they evened it out with having 1 from each country. They basically admited the problem themself there.

Btw, speaking of corruption about where olympics shall be played, have you noticed that 2 out 5 of these olympics with NHL players have been played in canada and USA, what is the odds of that happening? And the problem with that is that usa and canada are hockey countries so they get a bigger benefit of playing at home then japan does.

Of course I was talking about you. If you can read you can figure that our, since I quoted a post directed directly toward you. Your complaints remain ridiculous because of the bolded. You don't care about what actually did happen, you only care about your theory of what might have happened. Reality is that the refereeing was fine, so there is no issue. Your theorizing is irrelevant when we have real results and games to look at.

Not fair to blame only the execs. The NHLPA will be equally to blame. It all comes down to money and until the owner and NHLPA split everything evenly, neither side will be happy. It will turn into the NBA soon enough where even garbage players are making stupid money.

The NHLPA is in no way equally to blame. The reason that the league isn't going is because the NHL decided not to go, partially due to the IOC. The NHLPA is willing to go as things stand right now and as they have been for the last 20 years. We can blame the NHLPA in large part for the impending lockout, but the PA wanted to play in the Olympics.

 

[tsamolotoff]

Sure, Panarin, Kucherov, Tarasenko et al are much less hyped than Malkin or Ovie, but they play as a team and have heart, unlike some chokers that failed at previous Olympics. I hope another World Cup happens at some point, it was great (also, the idea of a 'united europe' team was also nice, maybe they should always go like that so there won't be two digit scores against Italy, Slovakia etc.