- Feb 27, 2002
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a different angle ? Vince vs Patty
- Thread starter SirSamofHouseBennett
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Vincent_TheGreat
Registered User
Since I have followed both for so long all the way back to the Jr days, I think I can add some opinions here. The selection means Gretzky thinks Marleau is better. Don't fool yourself, sure the brass does talk about the players but Gretzky makes all the final decisions. I'm very dissapointed to see Vinny not there. Vinny has always played well with Canada teams with Game winning goals, great physical play and leadership. I thought Lecavalier would be a better choice, but I'm still happy for Marleau. I think the better question is how will this effect the 2006 olympics. I highly doubt if chosen Vinny would be used much, because he will be out of his element because he has played top international competition while these guys will this year. I don't expect Vinny to make much of an international impact until 2010 if He is invited that year, and I'm not that confident about him being there in 06 and even if he dopes it will be a limited capacity. Is Marleau a better fit, I'm not sure! I think neither are a better fit then the other.
Foppa
Future Norris Winner
I would not think that is the case. They have clearly tried to field a team not of the best or most talented Canadian players (obviously...still including the cream of the crop though) but of a real mix of scoring, speed, grit, and defense. I think some effort was made to have some cohersion in the team...guys like Malty, Draper, Primeau, and Morrow you could probably put with anyone to get effective minutes out of. Gagne may have the least impressive 'what have you done for me lately' credentials but his inclusion 4 years ago and play then clearly had an impact on his being back on the team.
Now, obviously both Marleau and Lecavalier are skill players so their situations would not be so dissimilar. Maybe Gretz and Co just flat out like Patty's play better (as Vinny mentions above). But I think anybody using the World Cup selection as a basis for arguing one player is 'better' than another is using a very shallow arguement that just does not hold up under pressure. (Not that it will stop people using it like crazy).
Now, obviously both Marleau and Lecavalier are skill players so their situations would not be so dissimilar. Maybe Gretz and Co just flat out like Patty's play better (as Vinny mentions above). But I think anybody using the World Cup selection as a basis for arguing one player is 'better' than another is using a very shallow arguement that just does not hold up under pressure. (Not that it will stop people using it like crazy).
Vincent_TheGreat
Registered User
foppa, I was actually really happy to see Gagne. He gives us three of the fastest and world class skaters along with Marleau and St.Louis. Gagne has super quick feet and his speed is amazing, he also plays amazing D, and shows up big time in the international sides, had 7 goals in 7 games back at the WJC, may of them big time goals. He has goal scorers hands and has great determination. He hasn't been great the past two years, but he will be great any time he wears the red leaf!
Foppa
Future Norris Winner
Oh, I have no problems with Gagne's inclusion. I think he could have some good chemistry with some of the centers and because of his skating and smarts, he'll be a versatile asset. And he definitely has stepped up his play in international competition. Much like Ryan Smyth, if you have a track record of doing well for your country, why deviate from the formula? Marty Skoula, who became the Avs' and HF's whipping boy for his crappiness at the NHL level is usually on the first or second pair and usually plays great for the Czech Republic.
Now, like any list, I think you could make a lot of arguements about players you felt more deserving...I just don't think you can use the list as a tool to say 'player A' is better than 'player B'. As part of an arguement? Sure. But I don't think it settles anything in a Marleau/Vinny debate.
Now, like any list, I think you could make a lot of arguements about players you felt more deserving...I just don't think you can use the list as a tool to say 'player A' is better than 'player B'. As part of an arguement? Sure. But I don't think it settles anything in a Marleau/Vinny debate.
Vincent_TheGreat
Registered User
Definitely. I don't think this can be used for a comparison, you could say if they both played, player A is a better player in international play, but If you asked who has been better in there young NHL careers, I have to go with vinny, Marleau is having a great playoffs but so is Vinny, and vinny has been more productive, consistent and dominant in the regular season. Marleau almost seems to wait until about 1-2 months before the playoffs and then starts to dominate. Both are great players, and your right you can't say One is better then the other because he is on the list.
My guess is because Marleau has a well rounded out game. He plays the PK in San Jose and he plays a sound D game. Maybe Lecavilier actually is better defensively, and someone had a major brain fart somewhere, but I doubt that's the case.
Vincent_TheGreat
Registered User
As good as Marleau is defensively, he isn't that far ahead of Vinny defensively to be put on a team ahead of him. That would not have been a factor. Both have consistency problems, which is worrysome for a short tourny and Vinny also plays some PK, not as much as Marleau, but St.Louis are dangerous when those to hit the ice.
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