9th Baseball ATD Round 2 AL St. Louis @ Pittsburgh

[Pwnasaurus]

St. Louis Maroons

Manager: Joe Torre

Position Players​

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Pitchers​

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Lineup​

C: Mickey Cochrane | SP1: Lefty Grove (L) | 1. Mickey Cochrane (L)
1B: Buck Leonard| SP2: Christy Mathewson (R) | 2. Cristobal Torriente (L)
2B: Chase Utley | SP3: Ed Walsh (R) | 3. Ralph Kiner (R)
3B: Graig Nettles| SP4: Rube Waddell (L) | 4. Buck Leonard (L)
SS: Barry Larkin| SP5: Chief Bender (R) | 5. Al Kaline (R)
LF: Ralph Kiner | Long1: Wilbur Wood (L) | 6. Graig Nettles (L)
CF: Cristobal Torriente| Mid1: Jeff Nelson (R) | 7. Chase Utley (L)
RF: Al Kaline| Mid2: Kelvin Herrera (R) | 8. Barry Larkin (R)
Bench: OF - Enos Slaughter (L)| Short1: Jesse Orosco (L) | 9. Pitcher's Spot
Bench: OF/1B - Mule Suttles (R) | Short2: Mark Eichhorn (R)
Bench: 3B - David Wright (R) | Closer: Hoyt Wilhelm (R)
Bench: C - Bill Freehan (R) |
Bench: CF - Devon White (S) |
Bench: 2B/SS/3B - Gil McDougald (R) |

Pittsburgh Pirates


MANAGER Bruce Bochy

Position players



C: Johnny Bench (R)
1B: Frank Thomas (R)
2B: Robinson Cano (L)
3B George Brett (L)
SS: Luke Appling (R)
LF: Manny Ramirez (R)
CF: Duke Snider (L)
RF: Sam Crawford (L)
Bench: INF/Of Ben Zobrist (R)
Bench: 1b Joey Votto (L)
Bench: SS Phil Rizzuto (R)
Bench: C Ernie Lombardi (R)
Bench: OF/INF Tony Phillips (S)

Pitching staff

SP1:Randy Johnson (L)
SP2: Pedro Marrtinez (R)
SP3: Dazzy Vance (R)
SP4: Cliff Lee (L)
SP5: Stephen Strasburg (R)
Long/Spot 1: John Candelaria (L)

Short L: Tony Watson (L)
Short R: Sergio Romo (R)
Short R: Darren O'Day (R)
Short R: Kenley Jansen (R)
Short L: Randy Myers (L)
Closer: R: Trevor Hoffman (R)

Lineup.

1. Luke Appling (R)
2. George Brett (L)
3. Manny Ramirez (R)
4. Duke Snider (L)
5. Frank Thomas (R)
6. Sam Crawford (L)
7. Robinson Cano (L)
8. Johnny Bench (R)

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[UL Washington]

These are pretty much the same team. This one is going 7.

 

[bluesfan94]

These are pretty much the same team. This one is going 7.

They are very similar, but I think my staff is slightly better at each rotation spot. I also think that while I have a worse 3B, I have the better outfield. I also think my pen is narrowly better. And Joe Torre is better than Bruce Bochy as a manager. it's definitely real close.

 

[Winger for Hire]

Hot Take Alert:

Pedro > Christy

 

[bluesfan94]

Mathewson would have won somewhere between 7-10 CYA if they awarded them back then. Pretty easy to say he's better than Martinez.

 

[UL Washington]

They are very similar, but I think my staff is slightly better at each rotation spot. I also think that while I have a worse 3B, I have the better outfield. I also think my pen is narrowly better. And Joe Torre is better than Bruce Bochy as a manager. it's definitely real close.

I think the top 3 is a complete wash. I like the Maroons 4 and 5 better but not sure how much action they will get. Also like the Maroons bullpen better. Have to take a closer look at the offense and defense.

But when I say that the teams are really similar, both teams have defensive-liability sluggers in LF, each team has one of the top 2 active second baseman, both teams have very consistent long term Detroit Tigers in RF, etc. Just lots of similarities, imo.

 

[Winger for Hire]

Mathewson would have won somewhere between 7-10 CYA if they awarded them back then. Pretty easy to say he's better than Martinez.

Well, just going byou ERA+, Pedro has him beat pretty handily.

Not to mention Christy wasn't facing down (and shutting down) the Juiced Era.

 

[NJDevs26]

I think the top 3 is a complete wash. I like the Maroons 4 and 5 better but not sure how much action they will get.

I think 1-2 is pretty much a wash, saying either of Grove and Mathewson is appreciably better than Unit or Pedro is kind of splitting hairs IMO. I'd give Walsh the edge over Dazzy though, the difference in 3-4 could be critical in a series as close as this. But the Pirates' offense is a little better on paper. This is definitely a series that's going to take time to decide, thankfully I only have two others to vote on this round.

 

[bluesfan94]

Well, just going byou ERA+, Pedro has him beat pretty handily.

Not to mention Christy wasn't facing down (and shutting down) the Juiced Era.

I mean, hard to blame Christy for pitching when he pitched. You can't make this argument and then with a straight face tell me that Japanese pitchers are on the same level as MLB ones.

 

[Winger for Hire]

I've never made that claim and you know it.

I'm not blaming Christy for pitching when he did, but the fact is he pitched in the Dead Ball Era. I'm not saying everything he's done is trash (far from it, he dominated his era, that's worth a lot), but the era, style, rules, and other factors did help him.

Whereas Pedro, Unit, Clemens, etc also dominated their era, but that era had runs, homers, and pretty much all offense clicking at historical paces, not to mention a lot of newer parks have been built with offense in mind.

I'm sorry I don't automatically place a lot of old timers by themselves on perches. They are all time greats and worthy of all the praises they get, but just because they played a long time ago in the mythical age of baseball doesn't automatically make them better than recent all time greats.

 

[Pwnasaurus]

In an absolute nail biter of a series, the Pirates edged out the Maroons in a thrilling Game 7 when a Joey Votto pinch hit single drove in the game's only run. Congrats to both teams for building 2 excellent clubs that went down to the wire.