PGT: 9/24 Canada vs Russia - Canada advances to final with a 5-3 win over Russia

[Sentinel]

Mehar: I advise you to take a look at Canada's rosters in World Hockey Championships in 1981, 1982, and 1983. You will be surprised.

 

[Steazy Doo]

Stamkos looked really good yesterday, don't get the hate from the GDTs

 

[nowhereman]

I'm sorry but that is not only wrong but incredibly insulting. I am done with this conversation. Good Night.

Complain all you want but there are literally 3-4 skaters I would take off of team USA (discounting goaltenders... i.e. Schneider) that I feel would make team Canada better and that would be Kane, Pavelski, Johnny Hockey and probably Suter. That's it.

Think about it this way... if you made a list of the top 20 players in the NHL, there would likely only be two US skaters (Kane, Pavelski). The top 10 would likely have 6-7 Canadians (Crosby, Benn, Seguin, Doughty, Price, Tavares, maybe Keith, etc.) sprinkled amongst guys like OV, Kopitar and Karlsson. And there would be only one American.... Kane. Even if you have Kane ranked as the second best player in the NHL, behind Crosby, there are still 7-8 Canadian players I would take before Pavelski and Johnny Hockey. And the depth gets worse from there.

Sorry but you would have to add at least 5 top-end talents from other nations (i.e. OV, Malkin, Kopitar, Karlsson, Backstrom, etc.) to compete talent-for-talent with Canada. Just because the US can compete in short tournament where anyone can win, on any given day, doesn't mean the USA's talent pool can compare favorably to Canada's.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Czech Republic caught lightning in a bottle with 2 of the best of all time on the same squad in Hasek and Jagr. Going forward, they have just as much chance of ending up being folded into Team Europe as they do of reaching the finals in a best of best. To put them ahead of Russia would be quite unwise.

Not based on the results

 

[The Macho King]

Stamkos looked really good yesterday, don't get the hate from the GDTs

Didn't look good on the PP. Looked great 5 on 5 though.

 

[Mehar]

[mod]

1998 Russia took silver (Canada did not medal)
2002 Russia took bronze

They haven't reached podium in the 3 last "best on best" tourneys, but ignoring other tournaments, like the World Juniors, for instance, when trying to make an ignorant argument like "Russia is not a hockey power" is disingenuous.

The last 4 Best on Best. They failed in the 2004 World Cup. I consider that a Best on Best. A good hockey nation- but overrated. I rank Sweden, USA and Finland (even though they both struggled in this tournament) ahead of Russia. The USA roster selection was a disgrace. Russia has good hockey players, but struggle consistently to win it all Best on Best.

 

[Firsov99]

Was it a tall task in 2014 for Russia to get it done in Sochi- in your backyard? Fact of the matter is- i said it before to delusional posters like Yakushev72. They flat out got embarrassed in Sochi.

Russia- without a shadow of a doubt, is the most overrated hockey nation in the world. A true Paper Tiger. They have great individual players- but cannot get it done as a team. 1998 Olympics, 2002 Olympics, 2004 World Cup, 2006 Olympics, 2010 and 2014 Olympics- were true best on best, and Russia choked in each one.


People talk about the Soviet Super Teams in the 70's and 80's- fact of the matter is that they beat everyone's amateurs. If Canada were sending their best in the 70's and 80's, the Soviet Super Teams would have been beaten. The only thing Russia had yesterday was a solid goaltender that kept the game close. An overrated hockey nation.

Winning the World Championships, when everyone has their B and C teams, and Russia has their A teams- does not count. When Canada sent a solid team last year for the first time in a long time with Crosby in 2015- they slapped Russia around and blew them out.

Goodness, you have to chill, man. I am not attacking Canadian hockey prowess in any way. I did compliment your team by acknowledging that it was the best hockey team in the world. I didn't imply that Canada beat Russia only thanks to the home rink advantage. Beating Canada in general is a tall task. It's even harder to accomplish this while playing Canada IN Canada. Unless you think of course that the Canadians fans in the stands make no impact at all.

So, the question is will you take back your comment about the Soviets beating only the amateurs?

 

[Firsov99]

The last 4 Best on Best. They failed in the 2004 World Cup. I consider that a Best on Best. A good hockey nation- but overrated. I rank Sweden, USA and Finland (even though they both struggled in this tournament) ahead of Russia. The USA roster selection was a disgrace. Russia has good hockey players, but struggle consistently to win it all Best on Best.

Russia couldn't play its best team in 2004.

 

[XO]

Great international tournament this



Enjoy

 

[BrannigansLaw]

Russian team selection has often been a politically motivated joke too, especially coaching. That's been a large part of what's held them back. On talent, they only trail Canada (and probably even with Sweden).

I'll give you another thing where Russian fans may hold an edge-passion. I was at the Canada-Russia game last night, and despite the fan base being split 90% Canada to 10% Russia, Russian fans were making 50% of the noise (until the 3rd, that is).

Canadian hockey fans are considerably more reserved.

What they lack has been the same thing they have always lacked; forwards that place more emphasis on playing both ends of the rink, in addition to a very poor track record in developing defensemen. Put those two together and you have a team that can score yet can't keep the puck out of their own net.

These issues have a lot more to do with youth development focusing too heavily on skills development and not enough with respect to the less "sexier" points to the game (defensive awareness and positioning for example). This has been going on for decades.

I agree with you though about the politicization of their hockey program. I just don't think whoever they would have put behind the bench for this tourney would have had much of an impact. They simply need to re-evaluate how and why they have lacked much international success by looking at how they are developing their young talent and then fixing it. I honestly don't know if they are actively pursuing this route or if they are just going with the same old approach.

 

[XO]

One out, one to go

#TeamSweden #TeamEurope

Love being able to cheer for two teams in a international event!

 

[Up the Irons]

This is rich.

Time and time again, European fans maintain that, given our stupendous advantages in registered players and number of rinks, Canada should be dominating international hockey, and that not winning every tournament amounts to failure.

And now that Canada is actually doing this, it's bad for the game.

For the record, I think Russia had a solid showing at this tournament.

And so what if we r the best at the sport we only care about? USA is best at football, Figi at rugby, Australia at Rules Rugby... there are many examples. Hungary at water Polo of all things!?!

We love hockey the most, spend the most money on it, and we r the best at it. No need to over think it.

 

[Big Z Man 1990]

This game reinforces the fact that as long as Ovechkin is in the same conference (not just division) as Crosby he will always be in the latter's shadow.

If Ovechkin wants to ever hoist the Cup he needs to move to the Western Conference. I would prefer Chicago but he can go anywhere in the West. Until he moves West and permanently sets aside the Crosby rivalry Ovechkin will be in his shadow.

 

[Corax]

This game reinforces the fact that as long as Ovechkin is in the same conference (not just division) as Crosby he will always be in the latter's shadow.

If Ovechkin wants to ever hoist the Cup he needs to move to the Western Conference. I would prefer Chicago but he can go anywhere in the West. Until he moves West and permanently sets aside the Crosby rivalry Ovechkin will be in his shadow.

Ovechkin needs a coach like Lemaire was. He made Kovalchuk back check without forcing him. Not like Torts, but that Kovalchuk said about JacquevLemaire that he is the best coach he has evervhad.

 

[BladesofSTEELwFIRE]

That is not entirely true. Ovechkin is a beast physically, he skates well, he has good vision and tonight, he even commit to block shots. The guy is used as shooter, but he could be more if his coaches made him vary his point of attack. His skillset isn't used to its maximum potential.

When it comes to god given talent, Ovechkin has more than even Crosby. Sid has developped his better though.

The problem with Ovechkin is he seems to only move in one direction. Just ZOOM straight ahead! He needs to develop better instincts for the game like how Crosby picked the pocket of that Russian player and scored the goal.

Ovie could also learn some shifty moves and learn how to deke better. He does seem more 1 dimensional than Crosby.

 

[BladesofSTEELwFIRE]

As for Russia:

they won't win anything if they don't fix their D.

They can't compete with Team Canada and Sweden with a first pairing made of Markov and Orlov.

Everything else is in order, but they can't achieve greatness because of their godawful D-Corps.

True. When they were up 2-1 I thought they had a chance if they really played tight and looked for odd man breaks when Canada was pinching. But they collapsed like they've done for many years now.

I don't think Russia/Soviet Union has come in 1st in any major tournament since the Red Army days right?

 

[VMBM]

People talk about the Soviet Super Teams in the 70's and 80's- fact of the matter is that they beat everyone's amateurs. If Canada were sending their best in the 70's and 80's, the Soviet Super Teams would have been beaten. The only thing Russia had yesterday was a solid goaltender that kept the game close. An overrated hockey nation.

I truly advise you to watch the CAN vs SU games from the 1981, 1984 and 1987 Canada Cups especially. Live and learn.

As Team Canada either got badly beaten by USSR (1981) or alternatively beat them by the skin of their teeth (1984 and 1987) in a tournament called the Canada Cup, it is not very likely that they would have (all the time) beaten the Soviets on big ice with non-NHL rules etc.

 

[NyQuil]

As Team Canada either got badly beaten by USSR (1981) or alternatively beat them by the skin of their teeth (1984 and 1987) in a tournament called the Canada Cup, it is not very likely that they would have (all the time) beaten the Soviets on big ice with non-NHL rules etc.

I can agree with this.

 

[Gary Nylund]

I truly advise you to watch the CAN vs SU games from the 1981, 1984 and 1987 Canada Cups especially. Live and learn.

As Team Canada either got badly beaten by USSR (1981) or alternatively beat them by the skin of their teeth (1984 and 1987) in a tournament called the Canada Cup, it is not very likely that they would have (all the time) beaten the Soviets on big ice with non-NHL rules etc.

Sure, in those days, any match between Team Canada and the Soviets was basically a tossup.

 

[Bear12Good]

Russia play good this match?

 

[NyQuil]

Russia play good this match?

I don't think Russia underperformed in the tournament at all.

Which I have seen frequently for some reason.

They did better than I expected.

If anyone disappointed me it was the Finns and maybe the Swedes.

I don't really know what to think about the US - I'd rather not draw conclusions with so much American talent unavailable.

 

[BladesofSTEELwFIRE]

I truly advise you to watch the CAN vs SU games from the 1981, 1984 and 1987 Canada Cups especially. Live and learn.

As Team Canada either got badly beaten by USSR (1981) or alternatively beat them by the skin of their teeth (1984 and 1987) in a tournament called the Canada Cup, it is not very likely that they would have (all the time) beaten the Soviets on big ice with non-NHL rules etc.

I saw all 3 games of the Labatt 87 Canada Cup on the Financial News Network in the U.S. as I kid and I recall SO well Canada got away with SEVERAL uncalled penalties! Look at the most famous goal ever which was the final Gretzky to Lemieux goal. A Soviet player was clearly dumped at the start of the play but NO call!

Eventhough that Canada team had Lemieux, Gretzky, & Messier even a blind person could tell Makarov, Larianov, & Krutov & the rest of the Soviets worked better as a TEAM!

 

[authentic]

I saw all 3 games of the Labatt 87 Canada Cup on the Financial News Network in the U.S. as I kid and I recall SO well Canada got away with SEVERAL uncalled penalties! Look at the most famous goal ever which was the final Gretzky to Lemieux goal. A Soviet player was clearly dumped at the start of the play but NO call!

Eventhough that Canada team had Lemieux, Gretzky, & Messier even a blind person could tell Makarov, Larianov, & Krutov & the rest of the Soviets worked better as a TEAM!

They all played together so often that's why it seemed that way. Canada was made up of a bunch of players who hadn't played together before, but they were clearly stacked. Gretzky and Lemieux were the difference, Russia got away with their fair share of penalties as well.

 

[BladesofSTEELwFIRE]

But clearly Canada got away with a lot more penalties!!

 

[Gary Nylund]

But clearly Canada got away with a lot more penalties!!

Yeah, clearly.