Prospect Info: 6th Overall Pick: Pavel Zacha

[Emperoreddy]

I was with you up until the "make fools of people" thing. Zacha and Severson's situations are not analagous in any way. Severson isn't playing for a place on the team, he knows where he stands. Zacha better be trying to make fools of people if he wants to be on this team, as he's indicated.

The overall point of not being able to make the team here is correct, but making an impression never hurts.

Wasn't meant to be a 1:1 comparison. More about a player that was clearly more talented then everyone else not making it a one man show.

Anyway from what I read he did good. Especially for what I want to hear and see. He was doing the little things right. That's the stuff i want to know about.

I know he has a second gear, is big, and has a nasty shot. I wanted to see battling on boards, showing some vision. Being responsible getting back. The accounts sound like he showed just that.

I think we also agree we need a bigger sample size before any conclusions can be made. Eespeically since this short camp was just about learning skills. The big club's system wasn't in place.

See how he does with the team during a longer camp inside an actual system and a few live preseason games.

That will tell us a lot of where he is at.

 

[Emperoreddy]

I disagree. If he wants to be in the NHL as an 18-year old, at the very least he should be able to dominate a bunch of teenagers.

1. Dominate prospects
2. "Belong" in training camp
3. Produce something in preseason games

Shouldn't even be considered to make the team if he fails at any one of those three things.

Many of the prospects there were older then him and not teenagers. To be fair.

And this was a development camp scrimmage. I'm not sure what you wanted.

 

[NJDevs26]

I think we also agree we need a bigger sample size before any conclusions can be made. Eespeically since this short camp was just about learning skills. The big club's system wasn't in place.

It almost looked like they were both playing system hockey in the first half today, and then the second half the shackles came off and they were playing pond hockey. It's like they were afraid of getting booed the longer the game stayed 0-0

And yeah they didn't want development camp to be a total competition, there'll be plenty of time in September for that - although it clearly meant more to the non-contract invitees like Kelleher and Appleby for obvious reasons than it does to some of the others like Zacha.

 

[Emperoreddy]

It almost looked like they were both playing system hockey in the first half today, and then the second half the shackles came off and they were playing pond hockey. It's like they were afraid of getting booed the longer the game stayed 0-0

Well im sure there was some rudimentary system in place but Hynes said day 1 he wasn't installing the system for this camp.

You might be right though. Maybe the first half was meant to focus on certain skills or game ideas and the 2nd was just go have fun?

I haven't read any Hynes comments so I don't know

 

[Burner Account]

Many of the prospects there were older then him and not teenagers. To be fair.

And this was a development camp scrimmage. I'm not sure what you wanted.

I used teenagers loosely. I think he should be able to dominate the other prospects in the system. That's what I want.

I think a lot of it depends on the week as a whole. Not just the scrimmage.

But if any of those three boxes are unchecked at the end of camp in September, I don't think he should get the whatever it is (9 games?) NHL trial. Just my opinion.

 

[ghoti]

I disagree. If he wants to be in the NHL as an 18-year old, at the very least he should be able to dominate a bunch of teenagers.

1. Dominate prospects
2. "Belong" in training camp
3. Produce something in preseason games

Shouldn't even be considered to make the team if he fails at any one of those three things.

It was made very clear by everyone in charge that development camp was not intended for the purpose of "dominating" anyone.

Not listening to the people running the organization that drafted you is a great way to start off on the wrong foot.

 

[ForeverJerseyGirl]

Development camp didn't really shape my opinion either way about where Zacha should be next year. The only time that any of us saw him live at the camp were the 3-on-3 and/or the red-white scrimmage. In the 3-on-3, Zacha didn't dominate, but he did show his skills (acceleration, hard shot, etc.), and in a scrimmage that more closely approximated real game conditions, he by all accounts stood out more. It's possible that the more similar conditions get to the NHL, the more he'll shine.

He also has time to train and develop more before training camp, and the coaching staff may have given him pointers to improve on to make himself more NHL ready for training camp, so he could be more NHL ready then than he is now.

The coaches and management see a lot more of him than we do and I believe they want to develop, not rush, him, so I'll trust they'll make the right decision about Zacha. If Zacha's development doesn't proceed properly, their necks will be on the chopping block far before mine, so whatever they decide--NHL or not--I'll believe is what they think is best for Zacha's long term future and assume they're probably right until proven wrong about this much at least.

ETA: I think the coaches should give him a nine game NHL trial regardless of what they end up doing with him next season, though, unless they believe he'll get totally steamrolled. A couple of days in the big leagues probably won't hurt his development and could give him insight into what he actually has to do to get to the NHL-ready level if he isn't there yet.

 

[Burner Account]

It was made very clear by everyone in charge that development camp was not intended for the purpose of "dominating" anyone.

Not listening to the people running the organization that drafted you is a great way to start off on the wrong foot.

I get what you're saying. But do you not think an 18-year old trying to make an NHL team should be head and shoulders above the other prospects in the system?

 

[ghoti]

I get what you're saying. But do you not think an 18-year old trying to make an NHL team should be head and shoulders above the other prospects in the system?

Not in this camp, no.

This is an orientation, not a training camp. It's just meant to show players unfamiliar with the NHL what the environment is like. There are a bunch of silly activities, field trips, and a fun, ongoing competition that keeps everyone engaged. It's not designed in any way to evaluate players or pit them against each other for future jobs.

Training camp is the opposite. That is where players are expected to be ready to go to work and compete against each other for spots on the team.

 

[Cheddabombs]

I get what you're saying. But do you not think an 18-year old trying to make an NHL team should be head and shoulders above the other prospects in the system?

Dominate in what sense? Be incredibly better in the drills? Score a 5-spot in today's scrimmage? I didn't watch any highlights but I've heard nothing but good things concerning Zacha today. Drills and practice can only show so much. How can you judge how he finds open space, creates chances for himself, finds his teammates, etc... if he's given all that in the drills?

If anything today should have been the "biggest" measurement of where he is at, and even if it's the biggest it shouldn't be that big. To be perfectly honest I think we'll have to wait for him to get a few pre-season games under his belt for making any decisions. Maybe he doesn't do the backwards skating stick handling drill head and shoulders above the rest, but if he fits into Hynes system and is able to be an effective player then he'll still be ready. We won't know that for a few months though.

 

[NJDevs26]

Yeah realistically the only true 'competition' was the 3-on-3's and today, and the 3-on-3 wasn't true hockey since it was in half of the arena. Everything else was as you said - drills, activities and off ice instruction/mentoring.

 

[Burner Account]

If you think the organization spent time and money inviting these players to a week-long camp with absolutely no intention of evaluating players (even if it wasn't the main purpose), we will just have to agree to disagree.

 

[NJDevs26]

Oh they're definitely evaluating players but it isn't a static process. I don't think anyone made or lost a spot on the team based on a minicamp. Maybe one or two of the tryouts gets an AHL contract or something.

 

[Emperoreddy]

Ya I don't think someone earned a spot because they cooked the best dish using Lou's special sauce or won the special Lou Lams trivia night.

 

[ForeverJerseyGirl]

There was definitely evaluation going on, but I don't think we know everything that the coaching staff and management were evaluating players on. Trying to comment on how the coaching staff and management might have evaluated a particular player is hard without knowing the details of what they'll be judged upon. It's like trying to figure out whether a student passed or failed a project when only knowing possibly 25% of the rubric.

 

[HenriquesJawLine]

He can really protect the puck

http://youtu.be/Nlgqb1-siNc

 

[ghoti]

If you think the organization spent time and money inviting these players to a week-long camp with absolutely no intention of evaluating players (even if it wasn't the main purpose), we will just have to agree to disagree.

I think players were evaluated on how they interacted with others, how they took instruction, how engaged they were with the activities, and the way they conducted themselves. It was a chance for the organization to get a sense of what these guys are like.

Also, if a player lacks in a basic skill or needs to work on something physically, I'm sure the coaching staff gave them feedback on what they need to do to prepare themselves for the NHL.

In that sense, sure there was evaluation going on.

But you are making it sound like these guys were in some kind of cutthroat competition and failure to ignore the purpose of the camp and show everyone what kind of big man he is compared to all those other scrubs who didn't get picked #6 overall is some kind of failure on Zacha's part.

Just being enthusiastic, listening, and showing interest in how to get better is a success for him. By all accounts everyone is impressed with his attitude. It seems like he's off to a great start to me.

 

[Burner Account]

I am making it sound like an 18-year old that wants to play in a man's league needs to be head and shoulders above boys (prospects).

That's it. Pretty straightforward.

 

[Jersey Fresh]

I get that this camp is very much about instruction and teaching, but how can anyone honestly say that taking all/most of the prospects in the system (and some invites) and putting them on the ice (be it drills, or these scrimmages) and noting which players stood out in all facets (and in Zach's case one of those facets should be scoring) being part of the evaluation process? No, it won't win you a spot, but it goes in the resume. Yeah, if he blows the doors off in training camp it won't matter, but let's say he doesn't score in training camp, would you still want him on the team because he was fast, getting back on defense, and doing the little things? Pretty much all I'm saying in an incredibly longwinded way is that he has to earn it. And for him to be on the team it has to be in a top six role. So all the other stuff is nice, but for me the threshold for him make the team should be super high. Not flashes of his obvious talent.

And to the point about 3on3 hockey, no it's not true hockey, it's all one on one play. That seems like a pretty direct way to evaluate the totem pole, no? At least for someone like Zacha...

I am making it sound like an 18-year old that wants to play in a man's league needs to be head and shoulders above boys (prospects).

That's it. Pretty straightforward.

Exactly.

 

[ghoti]

I am making it sound like an 18-year old that wants to play in a man's league needs to be head and shoulders above boys (prospects).

That's it. Pretty straightforward.

......

Pavel did a very good job. He's a young kid. He's had a whirlwind really prior to the draft when you're going to go that high with the combine and the draft and then afterwards. Just the way he represents himself, he's a real character kid. He fits in with the group. He doesn't expect or want preferential treatment. He's very coachable. His work ethic, I think you could see it in probably the two sessions that were open to the public that he works and he's a good team guy and you saw that whether people are around or not. So, we're really proud of him just in the fact of his work ethic and who he is and we feel that though he's a young prospect that's had a lot of attention and whirlwind summer so far, he's very levelheaded and grounded and he's taking it all in stride and now it's nice for him to be able to step back and get away from the limelight or hockey. Just really focus on his training and getting himself prepared for September.

 

[Jersey Fresh]

......

I'm sorry, what is this meant to indicate? He was proud his work ethic. What bearing does that have on whether or not he makes the team? When did training and evaluation become mutually exclusive? If I'm Hynes, he's going to have to show me a lot more than that. Yes, September is the real tournament, but there's no doubt in my mind that these development camps serve as one aspect of the overall picture these players are painting of themselves.

 

[Burner Account]

Yeah if you could just clarify what your use of that quote is supposed to indicate.

 

[ghoti]

I'm sorry, what is this meant to indicate? He was proud his work ethic.

Is that all the quote says? It lays out what Hynes was looking for from Zacha in this camp.

What bearing does that have on whether or not he makes the team?

I have no idea. It probably helps him, considering the coach is happy with him so far.

 

[Jersey Fresh]

Is that all the quote says? It lays out what Hynes was looking for from Zacha in this camp.



I have no idea. It probably helps him, considering the coach is happy with him so far.

The debate seems to centered on whether the players are being evaluated or not (with his play and not just say, being receptive to instruction and in shape). You seem to think that this camp, while centered on instruction, can't also have a evaluation component beyond just "does this guy listen and work hard?"? I mean, even by accident these guys are informing the coaches of their respective development path progress and separating themselves. And to clarify, I mean beyond the work ethic, what they see one ice. I just find it hard to believe Hynes cast his scope on work

In Zacha's case, as an 18-year old recently drafted scoring prospect angling for a job in the NHL, that should be somewhere near the top of the list. If not dominating, demonstrating that he is a cut above.

The coach is happy with his work ethic and that's great, but I guarantee you there's a lot he's not telling the media, i.e. whether or not he thinks what he's seen so far says "NHL at 18".

 

[Emperoreddy]

My take is this camp while yes is part of the picture of whether he makes the team is the smallest puzzle piece of the offseason.

And for me I know the kid can score. He has an extremely nasty shot. It's not going anywhere. His speed barring injury or a severe lack of injury is not going anywhere.

The concerns and potential holes in his game concerned the little things. And if he can't do those things to me he should not be with the big club yet.

The bigger tests is training camp but the way I judge isn't his ability to be a one man show. It's to work on a line and with his defense and be an all around responsible and smart player to go along with his obvious raw talent.

He showed promise with everything so far. Now we go to camp where the true test will begin. Real practices. And actual game time against a real opponent. Not teammates and fellow roommates.