Prospect Info: 6th Overall Pick: Pavel Zacha

[devilsblood]

I think it's worth burning an ELC if he is ready...

The growing pains are going to happen regardless if they are this year or next year....it is going to be a process for him no matter what the start date is. If he is physically and mentally mature enough no reason for him not to be here. I personally rather burn a ELC to give him a year with Elias.... all depending on if he is ready of course.

But some think an important part of the process is dominating a league. Getting the confidence in one's offensive abilities way up.

 

[devilsblood]

As per JJ, I think we need to give him one more shot.

And yeah he absolutely needs to produce more then he has. Even the biggest of JJ fans should be able to admit that.

But from the organizations stand point, you have to give him a chance to play him with more skilled players, sticking him on the 4th line again is akin to saying its over.

 

[JimEIV]

I would just be worried that he looks ready after 9 games and then stumbles halfway through the season and we end up burning a year off his ELC or set his development back.

It most likely will go that way, the he stumbles... it most likely will go that way if starts next year also.

I'd say if he's not lost on the ice and he is not putting himself in vulnerable positions to get hurt, it doesn't matter when he starts.

 

[Missionhockey]

I think it's worth burning an ELC if he is ready...

The growing pains are going to happen regardless if they are this year or next year....it is going to be a process for him no matter what the start date is. If he is physically and mentally mature enough no reason for him not to be here. I personally rather burn a ELC to give him a year with Elias.... all depending on if he is ready of course.

Can't we just hire Elias as a coach? Only half joking about that by the way.

Yes. He's going to struggle in his first year whether it's this season or next. It's about his development.

Yes but I'm not convinced yet that he's adjusted to North American hockey. It was 37 games and some of the things I've read suggest that he wasn't really getting the hang of it till the end of the season. IMO we should let him continue to adjust to North America at the lower leagues.

 

[JimEIV]

But some think an important part of the process is dominating a league. Getting the confidence in one's offensive abilities way up.

I don't.

If you look at just about any young European player who has made the jump to the NHL out of Europe none of them have dominated their league.

If Mikko Rantanen plays next year, and a lot of people think he is NHL ready, he wouldn't have dominated anything. We saw the same thing with David Pastrnak last season and Nichushkin the year before...Nichushkin went from 4 goals and 18 games in the KHL to playing a full NHL season.

Marko Dano didn't play in his draft year, but he played the following year he never dominted anything except his time in the NHL lol.

Drafted 2013...

2012-13 Bratislava Slovan KHL 37 3 4 7 * Draft year
2013-14 Bratislava Slovan KHL 41 3 2 5
2013-14 Springfield Falcons AHL 10 2 4 6
2014-15 Columbus Blue Jackets NHL 35 8 13 21

 

[devilsblood]

I don't.

If you look at just about any young European player who has made the jump to the NHL out of Europe none of them have dominated their league.

If Mikko Rantanen plays next year, and a lot of people think he is NHL ready, he wouldn't have dominated anything. We saw the same thing with David Pastrnak last season and Nichushkin the year before...Nichushkin went from 4 goals and 18 games in the KHL to playing a full NHL season.

Marko Dano didn't play in his draft year, but he played the following year he never dominted anything except his time in the NHL lol.

Drafted 2013...

2012-13 Bratislava Slovan KHL 37 3 4 7 * Draft year
2013-14 Bratislava Slovan KHL 41 3 2 5
2013-14 Springfield Falcons AHL 10 2 4 6
2014-15 Columbus Blue Jackets NHL 35 8 13 21

Dano is a good counter point, but to say none of them have played well in Europe is false. Barkov had a very good year as a 17 yr old prior to coming over. Malkin, ppg prior to coming over.

I also wonder what other leagues a guy like Nichushkin played in. Only played 18 games in the KHL, I assume he played somewhere else during that time.

 

[JimEIV]

Dano is a good counter point, but to say none of them have played well in Europe is false. Barkov had a very good year as a 17 yr old prior to coming over. Malkin, ppg prior to coming over.

I also wonder what other leagues a guy like Nichushkin played in. Only played 18 games in the KHL, I assume he played somewhere else during that time.

Wait a second!

You went from dominating a league to playing well.

 

[Feed Me A Stray Cat]

Hertl also did really well in the Czech league in his draft year.

If I'm drafting a player out of the KHL, I don't expect them to be dominating or even putting up 0.33ppg. Out of the SM Liiga or Czech league, I'd like to see some points.

 

[JimEIV]

Hertl also did really well in the Czech league in his draft year.

If I'm drafting a player out of the KHL, I don't expect them to be dominating or even putting up 0.33ppg. Out of the SM Liiga or Czech league, I'd like to see some points.

Don't disagree one bit...The 3 leagues you named are pretty different in terms of strength so it would only make sense.

But I am just saying I don't believe a young player (scoring forward) has to dominate as a part of his development.

 

[devilsblood]

Wait a second!

You went from dominating a league to playing well.

I guess expectations of what dominance means would vary depending on league. Of coarse a kid coming over from pro league in Euro will not have a 1.5 ppg season on his stat sheet. But Barkov's near ppg year as a 17 year old is more then just playing well. He was the 2nd leading goal scorer/point producer on the team. The team in leader in both categories was nearly 20 years his senior. I'm sure his confidence was pretty good at that point.

 

[devilsblood]

Don't disagree one bit...The 3 leagues you named are pretty different in terms of strength so it would only make sense.

But I am just saying I don't believe a young player (scoring forward) has to dominate as a part of his development.

But do you think confidence plays a role. A young kid coming to a bad team which has trouble scoring? Could that not hurt a kids development/

And maybe that's where the pre draft interviews come in, to see where these kids are mentally. To see which kids may benefit from those confidence boost seasons. To see which kids can fight through a couple seasons of struggle.

 

[JimEIV]

But do you think confidence plays a role. A young kid coming to a bad team which has trouble scoring? Could that not hurt a kids development/

And maybe that's where the pre draft interviews come in, to see where these kids are mentally. To see which kids may benefit from those confidence boost seasons. To see which kids can fight through a couple seasons of struggle.

I really don't so. I think this confidence thing is waaaay overblown.

I'm not saying there is nothing to it, we all know that where we are mentally is going to affect our performance but players have a certain tool set and confidence should be minor differences like the difference of 20 goals or 30 goals...Not the difference of playing in the league or 30 goals...You know what I am trying to say?

 

[Feed Me A Stray Cat]

In case people want some comparisons for Zacha, read below. I feel better after looking at this. Zacha was on the fast track in the Czech Republic, playing in the U20 league when he was 15 and dominating. No other recent Czech prospect ascended so fast so quickly.

Zacha:
16-year old season (13-14): 38gp, 4g, 4a, 8p, 0.21ppg in Czech men's league
16-year old season (13-14): 10gp, 6g, 11a, 17p, 1.70ppg in Czech U20 league
15-year old season (12-13): 39gp, 14g, 26a, 40p, 1.03ppg in Czech U20 league
15-year old season (12-13): 6gp, 6g, 7a, 13p, 2.17ppg in Czech U18 league

Hertl:
18/19-year old season (11-12): 38gp, 12g, 13a, 25p, 0.66ppg in Czech Men's league
17/18-year old season (10-11): 33gp, 14g, 27a, 41p, 1.24ppg in Czech U20 league
16/17-year old season (09-10): 42gp, 12g, 26a, 38p, 0.91ppg in Czech U20 league
16/17-year old season (09-10): 7gp, 13g, 10a, 23p, 3.29ppg in Czech U18 league
15/16-year old season (08-09): 35gp, 16g, 15a, 31p, 0.89ppg in Czech U18 league

Pastrnak:
15-year old season (11-12): 40gp, 41g, 27a, 68p, 1.70ppg in Czech U18 league
14-year old season (10-11): 16gp, 7a, 12a, 19p, 1.19ppg in Czech U18 league

Sekac:
16-year old season (07-08): 46gp, 38g, 49a, 87p, 1.89ppg in Czech U18 league

Jaskin:
18-year old season (11-12): 30gp, 1g, 1a, 2p, 0.07ppg in Czech Men's league
18-year old season (11-12): 10gp, 6g, 11a, 17p, 1.70pph in Czech U20 league
17-year old season (10-11): 33gp, 3g, 7a, 10p, 0.30ppg in Czech Men's league
16-year old season (09-10): 40gp, 13g, 10a, 23p, 0.58ppg in Czech U20 league
16-year old season (09-10): 12gp, 15g, 12a, 27p, 2.25ppg in Czech U18 league
15-year old season (08-09): 46gp, 28g, 19a, 68p, 1.02ppg in Czech U18 league
14-year old season (07-08): 40gp, 15g, 25a, 40p, 1.00ppg in Czech U18 league

Palat:
17-year old season (08-09): 42gp, 23g, 33a, 56p, 1.33ppg in Czech U20 league
16-year old season (07-08): 42gp, 19g, 18a, 37p, 0.88ppg in Czech U20 league
15-year old season (06-07): 33gp, 32g, 24a, 56p, 1.70ppg in Czech U18 league
14-year old season (05-06): 22gp, 2g, 7a, 9p, 0.41ppg in Czech U18 league

 

[JimEIV]

Very interesting.

 

[MichaelJ]

But do you think confidence plays a role. A young kid coming to a bad team which has trouble scoring? Could that not hurt a kids development/

And maybe that's where the pre draft interviews come in, to see where these kids are mentally. To see which kids may benefit from those confidence boost seasons. To see which kids can fight through a couple seasons of struggle.

From what I've seen Zacha does not lack confidence

 

[devilsblood]

From what I've seen Zacha does not lack confidence

Is this on ice? if so, more then just highlights?

Or interview stuff? I haven't watched much of Zacha, but similar situation is that euro kid picked by the knicks. Watching his interviews(and even watching his workout vid's) the kid just looks like he has that self confidence that will enable him to be a good player.

 

[devilsblood]

I really don't so. I think this confidence thing is waaaay overblown.

I'm not saying there is nothing to it, we all know that where we are mentally is going to affect our performance but players have a certain tool set and confidence should be minor differences like the difference of 20 goals or 30 goals...Not the difference of playing in the league or 30 goals...You know what I am trying to say?

Ya Im not totally arguing the point. I'm not saying that dominating a league, or building up confidence is a must for all players. But I can see where it could be important for certain players. Where as for certain players it's not that important at all, maybe that self confidence is deeply entrenched.

From that it's clear I do value the importance of confidence, but i admit that it's not necessarily something that needs to be cultivated.

 

[GhostofKenKlee]

You ever heard the saying better to be a big fish pond in a small pond? In HS, we had guys that preferred to play JV versus Varsity because they could dominate in JV.

Devils braintrust, right or wrong are banking on Zacha being NHL ready game one.

 

[MichaelJ]

Is this on ice? if so, more then just highlights?

Or interview stuff? I haven't watched much of Zacha, but similar situation is that euro kid picked by the knicks. Watching his interviews(and even watching his workout vid's) the kid just looks like he has that self confidence that will enable him to be a good player.

It's from both. He's pretty fearless on the ice and he exudes confidence in himself in interviews without coming off like a jackass.

 

[Hockey Sports Fan]

If Shero and Hynes are banking on their 18-year old forward whose played 1 year of North American hockey and couldn't even score over a point per game to be penciled into their NHL roster for the upcoming season, then we are screwed.

 

[GhostofKenKlee]

If Shero and Hynes are banking on their 18-year old forward whose played 1 year of North American hockey and couldn't even score over a point per game to be penciled into their NHL roster for the upcoming season, then we are screwed.

34 points in 37 games, he's really off the mark there.

 

[Hockey Sports Fan]

34 points in 37 games, he's really off the mark there.

It's almost identical to Crouse's scoring rates, except Crouse was on a worse team. Pretty sure not everyone was ready to peg Crouse as a top-6 NHL scorer.

 

[R8Devs]

Zacha didn't have a great team either. Crouse put up 15 points in 11 games when Sam Bennett was on Kingston for those 11 games(Bennett put 24 in 11). When Bennett wasn't there Crouse had 36 points in 45 games. So he did have a benefit of a good teammate(whether on his line or taking away hard competition) on his PPG. It was also Crouse's 2nd year in the OHL. Zacha had 32 in 32 after starting out with 2 points in 5 games.


Not that I think Zacha is already going to be a good top 6 producer already but there are different contexts.

 

[GhostofKenKlee]

It's almost identical to Crouse's scoring rates, except Crouse was on a worse team. Pretty sure not everyone was ready to peg Crouse as a top-6 NHL scorer.

.9189189 (repeating of course) per game. You wanted to bash him for not average 1.oo ppg.

I don't know much about PZ as some of you put on or seem to. I think that Shero is smitten with them as was Conte. We can revisit this in October and better yet, through out next season. Zacha also manhandled McDavid and dominated in shutting down his playoffs.

Was Crouse a pro at 16? PZ has been playing with guys older than him and probably isn't phased or needs to be soothed into his role.

Sorry, these guys are not out of central casting and Crouse was stated to be one of the few NHL ready prospects. Both are said to be men amongst boys.

 

[SeidoN]

If Shero and Hynes are banking on their 18-year old forward whose played 1 year of North American hockey and couldn't even score over a point per game to be penciled into their NHL roster for the upcoming season, then we are screwed.

yeah take Zacha out of the lineup and the team is great