Post-Game Talk: #6 - 01/26/21 | RANGERS @ sabres

[WojtekWolski86]

Bingo.

LA thought he was a 2C last year. Then tucked his tail between his legs and blamed everyone but himself. Instead of working on his game, he drowned his sorrows in fortnite.
Is Kravstov game better served on the 4th line or getting 20 minutes a game in AHL? Clearly there was a disconnect between the organization's message and what Kravstov was thinking. Clearly in the end he understand the message.

If you are expecting Kaako and AL to be that kind of impact players already then why do we have Panarin and Ziba? You need vets to carry the load a bit to shelter the kids. Do you remember how bad Washington and Pitt were when Crosby and Ovi were going off? They were getting 20+ min a night because they had some straight scrubs on the team. If you are asking the kids to be that kind of impact to carry this team then expect a few more lotteries.

At some point the players need to be held accountable. At this rate, with how many of our key guys not performing there is going to be some sort of shakeup. Even Gallant got fired from Vegas. Good coaches get fired because at one point or another its the easiest way to make a shakeup in the Cap era. But firing Quinn like he is the sole problem....there is zero guarantee this team gets better with a different coach because of the coach. It's more likely like "oh shit what we're doing isn't working"

 

[Fitzy]

Lafreniere is gonna be a really good player, i don't know why people think he should be Selanne right away.

We weren't, we were hoping he'd perform at least at rookie Ryan Nugent Hopkins, Taylor Hall, Jack Eichel level. Not another Kaapo Kakko rookie year. The guy was touted for his NHL readiness.

 

[Edge]

Panarin is the least of our problems quite frankly. While he hasn't played great and it's obvious he is rusty he still has made some plays and has 6 points in 6 games. He will be fine.

I can’t say I’m particularly worried about him. My general level of concern, team-wide revolves around a scenario I’ve felt was quite likely:

A slow start, followed by a frantic finish that leaves us short of where we could’ve been.

And I say that as someone who isn’t obsessed with the playoffs this season, but feels they are attainable and would serve as a great learning experience for the kids.

 

[Ori]

Strome should have been traded

Kredier should have been traded

Fast probably didn’t warrant a big return so i was ok with sticking with him. Although i’m guessing he could have been packaged with either of the above.

It’s a rebuild and they messed up.

Fast is not worth moving I agree.

• Also concerned about Kreider major injury earlier maybe it troubles him who knows.
• Ryan Mc. I would not move him, he was a corner stone until he retire x captain hopefully he get a cup with Tampa Bay as he deserve.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

I don’t agree at all. Last year they were getting hemmed in their zone for long stretches and were either scoring pretty goals off a rush or, more often, getting a one and done trying to overpass. I think the way they’re playing overall is a lot better and more sustainable this year save for the first game and this one, they’re just not getting the production they need from top guys to outweigh fluky goaltending.

I understand what you're saying, but this is not like the second half of 2013-14 when the team would get a ton of great chances without finishing. They may be getting possession but they're not generating much. They're only getting possession because their defense has been great save the 3rd pairing. Other than the 3rd and 4th line I don't even see a forecheck.

 

[will1066]

Mike Keenan is out there....lurking in the shadows.....whip in hand.....

Like John Kreese

 

[Edge]

We weren't, we were hoping he'd perform at least at rookie Ryan Nugent Hopkins, Taylor Hall, Jack Eichel level. Not another Kaapo Kakko rookie year. The guy was touted for his NHL readiness.

I get that, but I also feel we are a couple of shitty bounces away from Laf having a a couple of goals and an assist, and Kakko having 3 or 4 goals already.

So while the production hasn’t been there yet, he doesn’t look overmatched and like he doesn’t belong either.

So how does that change if Strome isn’t a void, or the veterans are creating space out there? Probably not too far off from what some were envisioning.

 

[HockeyBasedNYC]

He's trying to make plays because nobody else is doing it.

He’s looking for a play, he isn’t making them

There’s a difference.

They do miss Fast though.

 

[HatTrick Swayze]

I don't disagree one bit that the primary reason for the NYR struggles and individual kid struggles thus far falls on the shoulders of poor play from the key vet forwards. That is absolutely true and is driving the shit environment...it has a trickle down effect on the entire team when the NYR best players can't sustain offensive zone pressure.

I still would hope to see more brief flashes of individual dominance from Lafreniere and Kakko. Such as we have seen from, for example, Miller. It's not really anything more than a disappointment as of 1/26/2021.

 

[Fitzy]

I get that, but I also feel we are a couple of shitty bounces away from Laf having a a couple of goals and an assist, and Kakko having 3 or 4 goals already.

So while the production hasn’t been there yet, he doesn’t look overmatched and like he doesn’t belong either.

So how does that change if Strome isn’t a void, or the veterans are creating space out there? Probably not too far off from what some were envisioning.

I'm in a more cynical mood this evening but... Kakko has 2 points in 6 games and he's shooting 20%

Lafreniere has only 9 shots in 6 games.

These aren't unlucky streaks, they're just bad performances.

 

[will1066]

It signals a lack of compete, if you are getting torched in the faceoff circle you need to tie up and battle your ass out of it, wingers in, giving a shit. The top players arent battling anywhere.

Vally mentioned this in the post game.

 

[Ori]

On a positive note it can only be better from here concerning power ranking as well.

 

[haveandare]

I understand what you're saying, but this is not like the second half of 2013-14 when the team would get a ton of great chances without finishing. They may be getting possession but they're not generating much. They're only getting possession because their defense has been great save the 3rd pairing. Other than the 3rd and 4th line I don't even see a forecheck.

They’re 13th in the league in high danger chances for and tied for last in the standings. Their top players need to convert imo, it’s that simple. Quinn isn’t great but the system and team as a whole has been pretty good more often than not so far.

 

[HockeyBasedNYC]

I don't disagree one bit that the primary reason for the NYR struggles and individual kid struggles thus far falls on the shoulders of poor play from the key vet forwards. That is absolutely true and is driving the shit environment...it has a trickle down effect on the entire team when the NYR best players can't sustain offensive zone pressure.

I still would hope to see more brief flashes of individual dominance from Lafreniere and Kakko. Such as we have seen from, for example, Miller. It's not really anything more than a disappointment as of 1/26/2021.

Agree completely. Hard to put the team success on the shoulders of teenagers, however it would be nice to see Laf be Laf and Kakko be Kakko

 

[PuckLuck3043]

I can’t say I’m particularly worried about him. My general level of concern, team-wide revolves around a scenario I’ve felt was quite likely:

A slow start, followed by a frantic finish that leaves us short of where we could’ve been.

And I say that as someone who isn’t obsessed with the playoffs this season, but feels they are attainable and would serve as a great learning experience for the kids.

I agree. I expected them to play like ass for the first 10 games or so and then get better as their timing returns. I just never expected them to find different ways to lose every night it seems. They are also going to miss Chytil a great deal.

 

[PuckLuck3043]

He’s looking for a play, he isn’t making them

There’s a difference.

They do miss Fast though.

I disagree. It seems when he has the puck looking to make a play everybody else is standing around watching and not moving.

 

[HockeyBasedNYC]

I think if Torts were the coach one of Zibanejad or Panarin would be sitting on Thursday.

 

[HockeyBasedNYC]

I disagree. It seems when he has the puck looking to make a play everybody else is standing around watching and not moving.

He’s been pulling up a lot that’s for sure. In every zone. Lots of giveaways too, which is what I’m seeing. But hey anyway you cut it - he’s pressing and everyone needs to be better

 

[SA16]

Let’s parse this chart a bit. I’m not sure what sample the data is representing, but I think the takeaway from this chart is that most teams vary between 45-55% on faceoffs and when that is the case there is next to zero correlation between FO% and W%. I’ll buy that.

The Rangers lost 70/30 in the dot tonight.

They lost 65/35 in the first Penguins game.

Faceoffs are definitely next to meaningless when you’re performing within the normal variance. They start to matter a lot more when you are off the charts bad at them.

You cannot predict that though. All teams are going to be within a narrow range. In one game it will fluctuate. So trying to build a team that is good on faceoffs isn't going to work in a one game sample anyway. For example, even Bergeron had 10 games last year under 45%. Sometimes it's just going to happen.

 

[bondra]

I don't disagree one bit that the primary reason for the NYR struggles and individual kid struggles thus far falls on the shoulders of poor play from the key vet forwards. That is absolutely true and is driving the shit environment...it has a trickle down effect on the entire team when the NYR best players can't sustain offensive zone pressure.

I still would hope to see more brief flashes of individual dominance from Lafreniere and Kakko. Such as we have seen from, for example, Miller. It's not really anything more than a disappointment as of 1/26/2021.

Im waiting brief flashes and individual dominance from 1C and from player who earns 12mil per season. After that we can wait those flashes and dominance from 19 years old Lafreniere and Kakko.

 

[Synergy27]

You cannot predict that though. All teams are going to be within a narrow range. In one game it will fluctuate. So trying to build a team that is good on faceoffs isn't going to work in a one game sample anyway. For example, even Bergeron had 10 games last year under 45%. Sometimes it's just going to happen.

I’m not trying to build a team that’s good on faceoffs. I’m trying to build a team that’s at least competent enough at them for it to not matter, like your chart suggests.

 

[SA16]

I’m not trying to build a team that’s good on faceoffs. I’m trying to build a team that’s at least competent enough at them for it to not matter, like your chart suggests.

They are. They are 46.6% last year (second to last) with the same four centers. And yes it's second to last but it's minimal spread. You can't tell me there's a huge difference between winning 46.6% and 50% of faceoffs. It's a difference of 2 faceoff wins per game, on average. They actually should currently be better on faceoffs than they were last year with Chytil out as he's one of the worst in the league on them.

In terms of "important faceoffs" they are about average as Zibanejad takes those and he is average. Sometimes Strome takes them and he's a bit below average.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

They’re 13th in the league in high danger chances for and tied for last in the standings. Their top players need to convert imo, it’s that simple. Quinn isn’t great but the system and team as a whole has been pretty good more often than not so far.

I'd be curious to see if there's a stats of high danger chances/shot attempts. The eye test makes it seem pathetic, but maybe they get so many shot attempts that their absolute number of high danger chances is ok.

 

[haveandare]

I'd be curious to see if there's a stats of high danger chances/shot attempts. The eye test makes it seem pathetic, but maybe they get so many shot attempts that their absolute number of high danger chances is ok.

That’s a good question - id be very interested in that as well

 

[DanielBrassard]

We weren't, we were hoping he'd perform at least at rookie Ryan Nugent Hopkins, Taylor Hall, Jack Eichel level. Not another Kaapo Kakko rookie year. The guy was touted for his NHL readiness.

Right, no one thought he would be in his prime in his rookie season, but I don't think asking for him to produce similarly to other 1st overall picks in their rookie seasons is an unfair expectation. And he still might do so but that remains to be seen. Even if the points don't come I just want to see him have an impact on the game.