Value of: 4th overall pick (Utah)

[ExtraLoveSauce]

This rebuild obsession once again is utterly stupid for this team. It’s going to be a 7 year project before this team even sniffs a playoff spot if they go this route and once again we’re back to being the 08-09 team bad for multiple years.

Most of your core is aging out I would try and move pelech,pulock,Romanov, mayfield and horvat for futures while you retool around Schaeffer, Dobson and barzal it will be a couple more rough years but the only notable prospect you guys have is eiserman and with barzal being 28 and Dobson only 25 you guys have some leeway to rebuild with a couple quality vets if you trade away the aforementioned players you would get a nice haul for the next couple of years missing the playoffs with that old of a core is not a good sign and if you don't recoup some assets and prospects you could look at a potentially longer rebuild period bite the bullet now and get solid futures/prospects back while you still have a 1c and 1d

 

[miscs75]

Most of your core is aging out I would try and move pelech,pulock,Romanov, mayfield and horvat for futures while you retool around Schaeffer, Dobson and barzal it will be a couple more rough years but the only notable prospect you guys have is eiserman and with barzal being 28 and Dobson only 25 you guys have some leeway to rebuild with a couple quality vets if you trade away the aforementioned players you would get a nice haul for the next couple of years missing the playoffs with that old of a core is not a good sign and if you don't recoup some assets and prospects you could look at a potentially longer rebuild period bite the bullet now and get solid futures/prospects back while you still have a 1c and 1d

Without getting those high end prospects, it makes no sense. To move out for example Horvat and get a 1st (in the middle of the round), some cap dump with too much term and a B tier undersized wing/defensive prospect who might become a bottom of the roster is just terrible for the Islanders. Unless a team is offering up prospects on the same tier as Calum Ritchie, I have no interest in moving Horvat.
The main thing the Islanders need to do is figure out what to do with Pelech, Pulock, Mayfield, Engvall and Duclair first. Ultimately most need to be moved out in some form without anything comparable in terms of contract length coming back.

 

[Strickland]

This rebuild obsession once again is utterly stupid for this team. It’s going to be a 7 year project before this team even sniffs a playoff spot if they go this route and once again we’re back to being the 08-09 team bad for multiple years.

This team stinks. What other option is there? Four years of utter mediocrity, with declining results. And now they fall ass backwards into Ritchie and a #1 pick. Rebuild. Trade the pieces you can. Get as many picks in the next 2 drafts as you can. Hopefully you can get into the top 4-10 again this year. See where you are next summer in terms of prospects.

The other choice is a few more years of this utter dreck, just a middling team with no hope watching as someone like Horvat gets older and older and his value plummets.

 

[miscs75]

This team stinks. What other option is there? Four years of utter mediocrity, with declining results. And now they fall ass backwards into Ritchie and a #1 pick. Rebuild. Trade the pieces you can. Get as many picks in the next 2 drafts as you can. Hopefully you can get into the top 4-10 again this year. See where you are next summer in terms of prospects.

The other choice is a few more years of this utter dreck, just a middling team with no hope watching as someone like Horvat gets older and older and his value plummets.

You need to move out everyone outside the core, not the current core while keeping the prices from the previous country club atmosphere. Moving out Horvat and Dobson/Romanov for a 1st and some table scraps is just terrible asset management and will blow up in the teams face.
Now add in the rebuild obsession and the fact that doing it means a 10 year span of no playoffs, no quality hockey and just stunted prospect development essentially leaving the team in worse shape then they currently are. That’s just a disaster waiting to happen.

 

[seabass45]

Most of your core is aging out I would try and move pelech,pulock,Romanov, mayfield and horvat for futures while you retool around Schaeffer, Dobson and barzal it will be a couple more rough years but the only notable prospect you guys have is eiserman and with barzal being 28 and Dobson only 25 you guys have some leeway to rebuild with a couple quality vets if you trade away the aforementioned players you would get a nice haul for the next couple of years missing the playoffs with that old of a core is not a good sign and if you don't recoup some assets and prospects you could look at a potentially longer rebuild period bite the bullet now and get solid futures/prospects back while you still have a 1c and 1d

Pelech and Romanov are the only ones on that list that don’t have full NTCs (technically Pelech does, it turns modified in July).

 

[Strickland]

You need to move out everyone outside the core, not the current core while keeping the prices from the previous country club atmosphere. Moving out Horvat and Dobson/Romanov for a 1st and some table scraps is just terrible asset management and will blow up in the teams face.
Now add in the rebuild obsession and the fact that doing it means a 10 year span of no playoffs, no quality hockey and just stunted prospect development essentially leaving the team in worse shape then they currently are. That’s just a disaster waiting to happen.

The "core" stinks, too! You can't win with them. And to win with them, you'd need to add ELITE talent to the top of the lineup.

I don't know how anyone looks at what this team has done the last 4 years and thinks this roster is salvageable. It's not. To continue to invest in it, as Lou has done, is the definition of insanity.

 

[Jared Dunn]

IMO they should just draft Frondell / Hagens / Desnoyers, whichever they see being the best possible 2nd line center for them long-term. Cooley Hayton McBain Stenlund for now and then Cooley Frondell Hayton McBain in one or two years.

I understand that Utah wants to compete now instead of stockpiling prospects, but they aren't exactly a real contender at this point. Waiting one or possibly two years to get their young 2nd line center into the lineup isn't an unreasonable time to wait for a team in their current position.

If there's a guy out there like Will Smith or Tij Iginla or Shane Wright available, you can maybe look at a trade like that... IF you think the guy is equal with Frondell Hagens Desnoyers etc.

should definitely think about this imo

Also disagree with your whole premise here, Utah is looking to be in the playoffs immediately, not in a few years and as they should be. Prospect pool is loaded and the organization has been bad for nearly a decade. They're literally exactly the team that should be looking to consolidate young assets in a win now move

 

[ExtraLoveSauce]

Without getting those high end prospects, it makes no sense. To move out for example Horvat and get a 1st (in the middle of the round), some cap dump with too much term and a B tier undersized wing/defensive prospect who might become a bottom of the roster is just terrible for the Islanders. Unless a team is offering up prospects on the same tier as Calum Ritchie, I have no interest in moving Horvat.
The main thing the Islanders need to do is figure out what to do with Pelech, Pulock, Mayfield, Engvall and Duclair first. Ultimately most need to be moved out in some form without anything comparable in terms of contract length coming back.

Horvat should land you an A prospect and mid/late 1st as for duclair more playing time could up his production by trade deadline to get more value for him likely a 2nd,4th and a b prospect

 

[miscs75]

Horvat should land you an A prospect and mid/late 1st as for duclair more playing time could up his production by trade deadline to get more value for him likely a 2nd,4th and a b prospect

I’m not expecting anything of real value for Duclair since getting that contract off the book would be the plus in itself. For Horvat (or Barzal/Dobson) I’m fully expecting some form of a Calum Ritchie comparable level prospect unless it involves moving one to get into the top 5 again this draft which would ultimately downgrade the prospect/non pick pieces. Personally I’m waiting to see what the new GM does but I’m expecting some substantial changes to the roster this summer. Going back to Duclair, I’m expecting some form of the group of the long term “mistake” contracts to be off the roster this summer with a futures return if anything comes back. Moving out Duclair, Engvall, Mayfield, Pelech and Pulock seems to be the good. If they can get picks/prospects/expiring contracts (at most 2 year deals) in return, that’s a plus in the Isles eyes for the future.

 

[Jared Dunn]

Horvat should land you an A prospect and mid/late 1st as for duclair more playing time could up his production by trade deadline to get more value for him likely a 2nd,4th and a b prospect

Duclair has never been dealt for anywhere near that value and is coming off of one of his worst ever seasons with a not cheap contract, that would be an insane value jump

 

[impaaaaaact]

Barzal/horvat and a defenseman +2nd for fourth isles get hometown kid hagens and is able to reunite him with eiserman and go for a quick rebuild m

No?

 

[impaaaaaact]

Why? The Isles should be rebuilding. Whether they actually are or will be is another discussion. But in this scenario, I'm moving as many pieces off this mediocre roster in the next few weeks to expedite a rebuild. If you do it well enough, with some more luck, this is a team poised for contention in 2 years.

EDIT: And obviously with two of those you'd need more than just the #4 overall headed back, as I said in my post. but Isles should be trying to get quality over quantity in these trades.



Yeah because they're poorly run. Have been for years.

It’s simply far too much.

 

[lanceuppercut75]

Also disagree with your whole premise here, Utah is looking to be in the playoffs immediately, not in a few years and as they should be. Prospect pool is loaded and the organization has been bad for nearly a decade. They're literally exactly the team that should be looking to consolidate young assets in a win now move

I would agree with you here if Horvat was a better and younger player, and/or if the pick in question was 9th or 12th and not as high as 4th.

Horvat is CONFIRMED not a 1st liner and is over 30. Frondell and Hagens could be 90 point 1st line centers. Not saying they will be, but the odds are higher than 1% or 2%.

No reason to trade away that high of potential for an older 2C, unless mayyyybe you're just a 2C away from winning a cup. Utah isn't even the playoffs.

 

[Jared Dunn]

I would agree with you here if Horvat was a better and younger player, and/or if the pick in question was 9th or 12th and not as high as 4th.

Horvat is CONFIRMED not a 1st liner and is over 30. Frondell and Hagens could be 90 point 1st line centers. Not saying they will be, but the odds are higher than 1% or 2%.

No reason to trade away that high of potential for 2C, unless mayyyybe you're just a 2C away from winning a cup. Utah isn't even the playoffs.

Well yeah I definitely agree Horvat is not the guy but the thread isn't specifically about him, I don't imagine that would end up the only option with 4th+ on the table

 

[lanceuppercut75]

Well yeah I definitely agree Horvat is not the guy but the thread isn't specifically about him, I don't imagine that would end up the only option with 4th+ on the table

Not sure the kind of guys they should target are available though...

Tage Thompson
Dylan Larkin
Roope Hintz
Robert Thomas
Quinton Byfield
Elias Pettersson

Well, actually Pettersson might be available. Risky though. If they could add one of these guys, moving out the Frondell / Hagens pick might be worthwhile. These 1C types are mostly not available in trade though. Sometimes there's one on the market and sometimes zero. Two or three is rare.

 

[cslebn]

Not sure the kind of guys they should target are available though...

Tage Thompson
Dylan Larkin
Roope Hintz
Robert Thomas
Quinton Byfield
Elias Pettersson

Well, actually Pettersson might be available. Risky though. If they could add one of these guys, moving out the Frondell / Hagens pick might be worthwhile. These 1C types are mostly not available in trade though. Sometimes there's one on the market and sometimes zero. Two or three is rare.

And those guys are more valuable than the 4OA.

We can't be stuck collecting young assets unless this team wants to be the Cleveland guardians.

 

[Jormungandr]

I think they'd go Desnoyers over Hagens.

I don’t see why Utah would avoid Hagens if they thought he was the best player available. Which I think is highly likely. Me personally, I want one of Hagens or Desnoyers so I’d be happy either way. I just think it’s wrong to assume Utah would avoid Hagens because they have Cooley.

 

[miscs75]

I don’t see why Utah would avoid Hagens if they thought he was the best player available. Which I think is highly likely. Me personally, I want one of Hagens or Desnoyers so I’d be happy either way. I just think it’s wrong to assume Utah would avoid Hagens because they have Cooley.

Utah could easily take Hagens, let him finish up 2 more years at BC then go from there. There’s a pipeline of youth that are closer to knocking at the door for a spot in the lineup. Personally I feel like no one in this draft is NHL ready for atleast a year.

 

[Jormungandr]

Utah could easily take Hagens, let him finish up 2 more years at BC then go from there. There’s a pipeline of youth that are closer to knocking at the door for a spot in the lineup. Personally I feel like no one in this draft is NHL ready for atleast a year.

Yep. I think you take Hagens knowing he’s going back to BC next season at minimum. I don’t think there’s any circumstance where Hagens should be in the NHL next season.

I’d also like to add that I don’t think Utah would be interested in Dobson. They’re 4 deep on the right side as is. They might need to dump one when Lamoureux pushes for a permanent roster spot. Adding Dobson only clusters it up even more. If they’re trading #4, it’ll be to improve a weakness, not improve a situation that is good. That’s just my opinion.

 

[miscs75]

Yep. I think you take Hagens knowing he’s going back to BC next season at minimum. I don’t think there’s any circumstance where Hagens should be in the NHL next season.

I’d also like to add that I don’t think Utah would be interested in Dobson. They’re 4 deep on the right side as is. They might need to dump one when Lamoureux pushes for a permanent roster spot. Adding Dobson only clusters it up even more. If they’re trading #4, it’ll be to improve a weakness, not improve a situation that is good. That’s just my opinion.

I don’t think Schaefer should be in the NHL either. He had a very limited season and the additional year of juniors with a continuation of this year means he can work on strengthening his weaknesses vs competition he was already dominant against during his short season.
As for Dobson, it’s a sell low for the Isles if they flip him for the #4 and ultimately he’s bound to bounce back this season. I feel like the contract talks and swap of agents put a lot on him mentally causing him to second guess a lot of his play. He showed towards the end a bit more of his poise and puck control finally.

 

[dredeye]

Best the Bruins could offer is Zacha. I'd assume he's a little more desirable than Mittlestadt but they'd both be available. I just don't see either getting this return

 

[SRBisles]

I suspect Isles will push hard for this pick if available.

 

[lanceuppercut75]

I suspect Isles will push hard for this pick if available.

Barzal (or the 1st overall pick) are part of the trade, otherwise Utah hangs up.