Salary Cap: '24-'25 Salary Thread: Crosbicles Volume MMXXVI: Sid is Still Goat

  • Xenforo Cloud will be upgrading us to version 2.3.5 on March 3rd at 12 AM GMT. This version has increased stability and fixes several bugs. We expect downtime for the duration of the update. The admin team will continue to work on existing issues, templates and upgrade all necessary available addons to minimize impact of this new version. Click Here for Updates
Crosby is 22nd in scoring with solid linemates most of the year and a #8 rank PP.
He might not even get 25 goals, and will get a little over 80 points. The leaders will get 120.
Still a very fine player, but he's like mid to below mid among the best players for all teams now. And he'll be another year older, with surely his skating slowing down even more. He'll continue to decline.
Malkin has 10 goals right now. 60 points is beyond him at this point in his career and he too will fall more next year. Both are in the -20's, so they're not exactly handling the Center roles defensively either.
Letang is a -17 and completely toast defensively, with declining offense.
Karlsson has never been a good defensive defenseman. That won't change next year.

Why should a GM invest more years in a core like this? Their power to win Cups is gone.
Even if you changed the coach, that won't make them younger and faster.
I mostly agree with this, with a slight caveat. Their power to win Cups is not gone, but their power to win Cups as the best players on the team is gone. A hypothetical world exists where the Penguins win the Cup next season with all of them being contributing members - but there are better players than them also on the team doing the bulk of the work.
This hypothetical world isn't going to happen, of course, but I think it's necessary to differentiate between great/elite players and totally useless players. They're still useful players. They're just too old to play consistently well anymore.
 
I mostly agree with this, with a slight caveat. Their power to win Cups is not gone, but their power to win Cups as the best players on the team is gone. A hypothetical world exists where the Penguins win the Cup next season with all of them being contributing members - but there are better players than them also on the team doing the bulk of the work.
This hypothetical world isn't going to happen, of course, but I think it's necessary to differentiate between great/elite players and totally useless players. They're still useful players. They're just too old to play consistently well anymore.
I agree about Crosby not needing to be the best on a legit contender he joins, but not here. There's no timeline where they repair it all quickly enough to win next year, or even the year after that.
They would have to be able to rely on Crosby, Malkin and Letang to still be at the height of their power, and they're not even close. In fact they're gonna get worse.
This is not a 6-month free agency and trade fix, under any GM. This is a drafting overhaul fix.

They have way too many net-negative contracts. Karlsson, Graves and Jarry alone are like a combined -11 million in performance to AAV value. Hayes will be like -2.5M. Glass -1M. Acciari -1M. Still one more year of the Jack Johnson buyout.
Letang could realistically play 3 mil below his value next year, with the way he's trending. Malkin won't play up to 6M either at age 39. He might get like 40'ish points, while defending tragically.

Add it up. This is way too big of a mountain to overcome by crafty GM'ing.
Think of the net positive contracts on the team. There are too few to offset these anchors.
You can't win Cups like this. It's not possible.

They need to sacrifice time for this situation to heal, basically.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Buddy Bizarre
Well I guess that just means Nieto isn't going anywhere actually. I'm concerned that they'll use this as a justification for not trading Beauvillier, with thinking that the 4th or 5th they'd get back for him isn't worth trading him with Bunting out. It would be moronically stupid, but I can't put anything moronically stupid past this organization at this point.
 
Well I guess that just means Nieto isn't going anywhere actually. I'm concerned that they'll use this as a justification for not trading Beauvillier, with thinking that the 4th or 5th they'd get back for him isn't worth trading him with Bunting out. It would be moronically stupid, but I can't put anything moronically stupid past this organization at this point.

I imagine the justification for not trading Beau is nobody wants his washed ass.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Jag68Sid87
I think that's a ~3 week recovery, yes?
Guy I play with had his appendix removed second month of the season, and he wasn't allowed to return for 5 weeks. He could skate after 2, full out skate after 3 but no contact for almost 4 and then another week after that before our trainers let him get the could get into a game. Of course, we're playing for $260 a week for 400 people vs. NHL players with non-stop medical monitoring, performance bonuses to hit, etc... so makes sense that we've seen some guys come back 2 weeks after and as quickly as 3 days after in the play-offs.

I think whether it's laparoscopic or if the appendicitis gets too far along and they need to do some clean up work on the table is a massive factor in recovery. Our guy almost had it burst on the table because he waited waaay too long to go into emerg.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Buddy Bizarre
I can’t believe this team acquired a 100 point Norris winning defensemen (for not really a lot), has watched him look like a totally different player under this coach and his system, then watch him go and play for Sweden in an international tournament and be one of the best players on the ice for them, and then once again come back to Pittsburgh and look like a totally different player and not think to themselves “maybe the coaching is part of the problem.” It’s gonna suck when they have to sell Karlsson off for pennies on the dollar (and probably retain salary) only to watch him go back to being his old self again.
 
In Bunting's case it might have been wise to not move him anyway. This is his worst season by far.
It's pretty realistic to expect him to be much better next year, and we'll get the ensuing value boost.

Players that don't play with Sidney Crosby are notorious for improving their value in Mike Sullivan's system.

I can’t believe this team acquired a 100 point Norris winning defensemen (for not really a lot), has watched him look like a totally different player under this coach and his system, then watch him go and play for Sweden in an international tournament and be one of the best players on the ice for them, and then once again come back to Pittsburgh and look like a totally different player and not think to themselves “maybe the coaching is part of the problem.” It’s gonna suck when they have to sell Karlsson off for pennies on the dollar (and probably retain salary) only to watch him go back to being his old self again.

If you fire Mike Sullivan, you're immediately looking for another Mike Sullivan (despite the fact we are obviously rebuilding so why would it matter, Kyle).

Kindergarten Kyle up to his usually jinkies.
 
That's what I miss about the Gen X Days: you knew they weren't going to win the game. But damn they tried their hardest given the talent level that was available.

I can't remember the last time I saw full effort from 100% of this team. Probably 2018 Caps series?
Yohe would disagree with the effort thingy
 
There are some things that I simply cannot get on board with, things being mentioned a lot here:

- first of all, enough talk about keeping Mike Sullivan and recalling Tristan Jarry for tank purposes. Get that stuff out of here. Nonsense. I'd give up our first-round pick for the next decade if it meant moving on from the fossil behind the bench right about now. And Jarry should remain in the AHL until we find a chump (er, taker) for his services or his contract runs out, or he actually earns a promotion back to the NHL. We have the cap space to keep him buried. In fact, one of the reasons we should not retain salary or buy players out is so that we can bury contracts if we need to. Heck, I would not stop at Jarry. Heinen, Hayes, Acciari...bury them all if you cannot trade.

- secondly, we are a terrible team. I don't believe it. Our core is solid, if aging yes. I watched both weekend games against Wsh and NYR. We seemed in control of both games, out-shooting and out-chancing both opponents. True, we got no goaltending at all in either game, but it is more than that. This team is built for low-event hockey. So when events occur, we are like deer in headlights. And it has been this way under Sullivan for a very long time. And then they simply cannot reel it back in. That's on the coach. Sullivan talks about wanting more mental toughness. Well, that's coaching Mike! And then there is roster construction. We are a top-heavy team, and a bottom-heavy team. No middle class! We are like dating a girl with Dolly Parton's tits and Kim Kardashian's ass. And nothing in between.

- So this theory about Dubas always planning a full-blown tank rebuild, despite his public comments to the contrary, is an interesting one. Not really buying it, though. So, he tells us the plan is to be competitive for the rest of the core's careers, while getting younger with an eye toward the future, yet he in actuality decides to go into tank mode? Sorry, but how is he going to convince said core that this is the plan and they all buy in? Fans can be persuaded, sure. Fannies in the seats and all that. But, aside from knowing the competitive nature of these athletes, we have heard plenty of reports about them committing to this team. Crosby has reportedly said he does not want to go anywhere; Letang has reportedly said it's either Pit or Mtl; Malkin has reportedly stated his intention is to not play in the KHL, stay in Pittsburgh through his contract and possibly beyond (I hope we extend him, personally). Even Karlsson has reportedly nixed the idea that he wants to be traded, and there has been talk that both he and Rust would not waive. Would any of this be true if they were told by Dubas that they were going into a full rebuild? Are they that stupid not to realize that Danton Heinen, Cody Glass, Anthony Beauvillier and Kevin Hayes are not going to make them a playoff contender? The players were told what Dubas told the media. That is the only thing that makes sense.

- I am also not on board with the idea that we have to keep our top prospects in the AHL so that they can learn how to win together. What about Joel Blomqvist? Why is he in Pittsburgh, but all the others are down on the farm? Could it be because of Mike Sullivan? Sullivan could care less about the goaltenders. He just wants someone to stop the puck. He also has probably had enough of Jarry, like everyone else. I do not think it is a coincidence that the only prospect currently on the roster is the backup goaltender. This has Mike Sullivan written all over it.

- I don't want to trade Erik Karlsson and Rickard Rakell, at least not unless it is a really really good trade for us. Dorofeyev and a first-round pick? Sign me up. But salary retention should be a non-starter. No first-round draft pick involved should be a non-starter, too. Maybe I am crazy, but I feel that if we simply kept our good players, gotten rid of the bad ones and fired the coach, we would be right in line with that Dubas plan of an accelerated rebuild. The only two players I would trade who are actually good are Bunting and Grz. Bunting because I feel like his value is fleeting, and also because we have replacements in the AHL needing a chance. Grz because we need a defensive defenseman to play with Karlsson, because Pickering should be in the NHL right now because he is our best defensive defenseman, and because Grz has too many ties to Mike Sullivan and we need to be rid of any and all of that crap. The other guys who hold minimal or no value, move them for what you can get or waive them. Goodbye.

- Back to the prospects, there is a notion here that we do not have any blue chippers among our prospect pool. So this is why everybody wants to trade everybody away and try to get the top-tier guys in the next three drafts. Well, first of all, we don't know what our prospects will be yet. You have to actually play in the NHL to draw conclusions. But even if it is true that our AHL prospects are merely complementary pieces to a future core, why not have them complement the current core? At worst, they help Crosby, Malkin and company compete (the publicly stated goal, after all) for the here and now. At best, they develop into interesting pieces for the future. Win-win.

There is only one conclusion that can be drawn, in my opinion (and I have said this before): Dubas has no real power within this organization, as he has to answer to the people above him and the head coach "below" him. He cannot fire the head coach, nor can he mandate that the players HE has brought into the organization play in the NHL, play more minutes or play at all. When the organization decided to make a coaching change last summer, I am certain that Sullivan had a say, was not happy about it and insisted that we replace Reirden with Quinn. I am confident that Sullivan is in on trade talks, tells Dubas that he likes certain players, not so much others, etc. I am pretty sure that when reports surfaced on July 1 last summer that the Oilers had signed Matt Nieto, it was Sullivan who called Dubas to, "make it happen." Sullivan has his fingerprints all over this team. Dubas is made to look like a complete bumbling fool nationally because of this. But he is paid handsomely, has ridiculous job security and is a great salesman. So I suppose he goes along with it. Either this is true, or he truly is the worst GM in North American pro sports. I doubt that is true.

Mitch Marner represents a shift in the balance of power, in my opinion. If Dubas is able to land someone like Marner, then OK. Then I will buy into the idea that Dubas is actually running this show. Which probably leads to many more questions about his first two off-seasons, but OK. Because when he got this job, I was definitely expecting more players with Toronto ties coming on board. Instead, it's been what, Acciari, Bunting, Andreas Johnsson briefly, Filip Kral...not much. Now, is that because Shanahan tells Treliving not to talk to Dubas? Maybe. Or maybe Dubas is too busy trying to acquire every Boston University alum and Massachusetts-born player that he has no time to dip into his past.

In conclusion, everything within this organization is a mess. However, fire Mike Sullivan tomorrow and suddenly, things look a LOT brighter. Until that day, nothing matters.
Copium Killer: the comment
 
  • Like
Reactions: CheckingLineCenter
I can’t believe this team acquired a 100 point Norris winning defensemen (for not really a lot), has watched him look like a totally different player under this coach and his system, then watch him go and play for Sweden in an international tournament and be one of the best players on the ice for them, and then once again come back to Pittsburgh and look like a totally different player and not think to themselves “maybe the coaching is part of the problem.” It’s gonna suck when they have to sell Karlsson off for pennies on the dollar (and probably retain salary) only to watch him go back to being his old self again.
Baited by an outlier year. His career average is 62 per 82 games.
We got 56 and will probably get about 50 this year. Not that far off.
And the shit, lazy defense has been a trend his whole career.

The problem was people's expectations. 10mil is a stupid price for a D-man who thinks defense is optional.
 
You tease


What a comment from a GM
I mean, Karlsson wouldn't be coming in at $11.5 million but the point is valid. Dallas has Johnston as a RFA this year and Robertson, Harley and Stankoven as RFAs next year. If Karlsson only had 1 year left, I think that would change a lot of things but that additional year in 2026-2027 really complicates things for them.

That's not an unfair statement but it leaves a lot of be desired by someone who is a GM.

EK is at $10.5mil and the Penguins can easily retain money to facilitate the trade, as countless teams have done in the last several years. You can just say "He's a good player but I'm not sure he's the right fit right now so we're probably not pursuing him".

This response makes him look like a dingus.
Agreed. He knows retention to 7 or 6 million is a possibility for a top 4 RD on a short term deal.
Could be posturing through the media? Maybe Dubas isn't wanting to retain that much in talks?
Could be


Dubas perhaps is trying to avoid too much retention.

Could also be a disagreement on assets needed back.

I lean towards Karlsson being an off-season move but if I was a team with space I want him for 3 v 2 playoff runs.
 
  • Like
Reactions: The Old Master
Bunting probably wasn't going to be dealt anyway, but if a GM really wanted him, they'd still trade for him. It's not like he blew out his knee or shoulder or something. It's a limited, defined, non-hockey health procedure. He'll be fine. It's not even a concern for a GM.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ulf5

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad