24/25 McDavid vs. 14/15 Crosby

[Midnight Judges]

Messier is absolutely in the same tier of greatness as Crosby so Cups are important in ranking them within that tier. IMO Kevin Lowe is not in the same tier of greatness as those other players mentioned. He’s in a lower tier for sure.

Crosby is pretty clearly a tier above Messier IMO.

 

[authentic]

He also was better than anyone active in 2015 by a big margin. He was better than Crosby ever was offensively in 1999 especially the calendar year. Agree to disagree on this one. I’m not saying ice time didn’t have an impact but I believe this is overblown here. Respect your opinion nonetheless.

Oh I’m aware of this, Jagr at his peak was absolutely better than Crosby after the concussions and wrist injury that made him a shell of his former self. This doesn’t change the points I’m making about when everyone in the league can’t score much it’s not hard to figure out what the issue is.

 

[authentic]

We agree pretty closely on the top 10-15 peak players though, which this timeframe was largely void of for numerous reasons, injuries to the top players certainly didn’t help. I promise you though if peak Jagr plays that season at around 20-21 minutes he scores less than we would like to believe. That also goes for McDavid or any player in NHL history.

 

[PenguinSuitedUp]

My opinion on tiering great players is consistent. Within their tier of greatness (I’d say Crosby is in the same tier with McDavid) the ability of a pkayer to be key in his club winning the Cup ranks them higher.

Which again suggests that you don’t understand the nuances of a team sport.

 

[pi314]

The Pens definitely play better without Sidney Crosby.

That’s why they won all those cups in his concussion/broken neck years. The years they won the whole time I was thinking “man just think about how easy this would have been if Crosby wasn’t playing”. Then I farted into my hand, smelled it and was overcome by the high.

The problem with these turkeys is they think the stats say, “This is the team with Sidney Crosby, this is the team without Sidney Crosby.”

But in reality, during those years, the team led the league in missed man-games, and it was a constant revolving door of players.

I can remember Sidney Crosby playing half a year with Jason Megna. There is no actual comparison between a team with Sidney Crosby and a team without Sidney Crosby, which is what they think the stats actually say.

But of course, it’s just a Capitals Ovechkin fan trying to talk smack.

 

[bambamcam4ever]

Crosby's defensive capabilities in his prime have become more and more inflated the farther away we've gotten from that prime.

Crosby's defensive abilities in his prime are being underrated due to a Lost Cause-esque campaign by McDavid lovers who can't fathom a top scorer being responsible defensively.

 

[Romang67]

Crosby's defensive abilities in his prime are being underrated due to a Lost Cause-esque campaign by McDavid lovers who can't fathom a top scorer being responsible defensively.

Nah. He just wasn't that good defensively in his prime.

 

[bambamcam4ever]

Nah. He just wasn't that good defensively in his prime.

Do you think he was ever good defensively?

 

[Pancakes]

Crosby's prime was mostly robbed by injuries. I think if you have him playing full seasons in his prime years he probably has at least another 2 Art Rosses (2010 and 2012 come to mind) and he would have had a shot in 07-8 (Ovie won with 112 points, Sid was on pace for around that), and 2011 (Malkin won with 109...Sid probably ends up with around there if he played).

07-8 and 2011 are much bigger what ifs while 2010 and 2012 looked like guarantees (2010 was the insane 25 game point streak and 2012 had him losing the art ross by only 4 points despite playing 12 less games than MSL).

McDavid thankfully has had a healthy career for the most part so far but even putting that aside the fact that he has 5 Art Rosses and with potentially more still on the way....it's pretty indisputable that he's had a better regular season career than has Sid. The only real edge Sid has on him is rockets but even there Sid only edges him by one Rocket.

I'm a Pens fan btw. But for me it's pretty inarguable that McDavid has had the better regular season career than Sid. That's just a fact. Anyone who wants to argue otherwise is being a homer. McDavid is the greatest talent to enter the league since Mario.

That doesn't diminish anything Sid has done though. 3 cups, 2 Smythes. McDavid is going to get judged by his playoff success (or lackthereof) even if it's not fair to do so given the playoffs are a team game. If McDavid ends up winning even one cup I think most people will comfortably put him ahead of Sid. If he wins two there's no question. If he doesn't manage to win one....he arguably still deserves to be considered a better player simply by virtue of how insanely good he's been individually, but people will hold the lack of playoff success against him.