WJC: 2025 WJC U20 Division I Group A

Fjorden

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Jan 17, 2021
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Bergen, Norway
www.bergenishockey.no
It's somewhat ridiculous to see both goalies of the main competitors as some phenoms rather than keep your top players responsible for a complete lack of execution. And to even further convolute it into the "our goaltending hasn't been good enough".

Anyway, here is the performance of all the drafted players after 4 games:

Gregor BiberAustria1+3, 4 points
Vasili ZelenovAustria1+3, 4 points
Jan GolicicSlovenia1+2, 3 points
Ludvig LaftonNorway1+2, 3 points
Oscar Fisker MølgaardDenmark0+3, 3 points
Stian SolbergNorway1+0, 1 point
Michael Brandsegg-NygårdNorway0+0, 0 points

Is there really anything else to say? Even Ludvig Lafton, with the very same coach, teammates and opposing goalies falls perfectly in line with the rest of the group. 2 Norwegian first-rounders, meanwhile, with an absolute stinker of a performance.

And I was really sympathetic towards them at the start, like Solberg had to play 3 games in 3 days with travel from Sweden to Slovenia in between. Again, no practices with the team, no nothing. The game against Austria was really bad for him but it was understandable. However, the way they still perform towards the end of the tournament, after the rest day and very manageable game against Hungary, I'm lost for words. Especially about Nygard, he has even less of an excuse and even more terrible of a stat line.
The danes have a coach with lots of experience from the highest Danish division, metalligaen. the austrian have a coach with extensive experience from ICEHL. The danes have a goalie that plays many games in Hockeyallsvenskan, and the Austrian have a very good goalie with a solid record from Swedish j20. So they do have more quality than Norway when it comes to coaching and, goalkeeping.

The players you mention have not played up to their standards in this tournament.
But both needs a system, and a good gameplan to take out their potential, That is the coach's task, they've not delivered, and we could use some new coaching resources for the coming years.
 
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Webster

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It's somewhat ridiculous to see both goalies of the main competitors as some phenoms rather than keep your top players responsible for a complete lack of execution. And to even further convolute it into the "our goaltending hasn't been good enough".

Anyway, here is the performance of all the drafted players after 4 games:

Gregor BiberAustria1+3, 4 points
Vasili ZelenovAustria1+3, 4 points
Jan GolicicSlovenia1+2, 3 points
Ludvig LaftonNorway1+2, 3 points
Oscar Fisker MølgaardDenmark0+3, 3 points
Stian SolbergNorway1+0, 1 point
Michael Brandsegg-NygårdNorway0+0, 0 points

Is there really anything else to say? Even Ludvig Lafton, with the very same coach, teammates and opposing goalies falls perfectly in line with the rest of the group. 2 Norwegian first-rounders, meanwhile, with an absolute stinker of a performance.

And I was really sympathetic towards them at the start, like Solberg had to play 3 games in 3 days with travel from Sweden to Slovenia in between. Again, no practices with the team, no nothing. The game against Austria was really bad for him but it was understandable. However, the way they still perform towards the end of the tournament, after the rest day and very manageable game against Hungary, I'm lost for words. Especially about Nygard, he has even less of an excuse and even more terrible of a stat line.

Did you even watch the games? Solberg played great against Austria, he even got the reward for Norway's best player in that game. He's a defenseman you know, his most important job is not to score goals, and defensively he was just fine.

MBN didn't play as much as he normally would, he needs some rest. Even though he didn't have to join them, he did it anyway because he wanted to stay with the boys for a while.

This has been a crazy year for both Solberg and MBN after they were picked in the 1st round in the NHL draft, almost no time off. I think you should wait to evaluate them after they have settled down and played a normal year.
 

SoundAndFury

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May 28, 2012
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Did you even watch the games? Solberg played great against Austria, he even got the reward for Norway's best player in that game. He's a defenseman you know, his most important job is not to score goals, and defensively he was just fine.
Yes, turnovers at the start of the third period that led to the Austrian breakaways were especially fine. Have you watched the games?



One of his "fine" moments, for example.

This has been a crazy year for both Solberg and MBN after they were picked in the 1st round in the NHL draft, almost no time off. I think you should wait to evaluate them after they have settled down and played a normal year.
Are you implying it's different for all the drafted players (Texier, Bokk, Bjorkstrand, Protas, Rossi, Molgaard) who have played in this tournament before? I'm not stating anything revolutionary here, it's all based on precedent. And it's almost unprecedented, Teddy Blugers in 2013 was the only similar case I found although he arrived from NA (so add the jetlag) and only played 3 games. He also was a famously long-term project and didn't exactly wow in his junior career. Not to mention pre-2022 guys faced quite a bit stronger field too.

But that's what I hate in general. Both Fjorden and you, your attitudes seem to be "let's just blame the things we are supposed to blame, have prepared to blame since before the tournament in case it went wrong and turn a blind eye to what actually happened on the ice because these kinds, the holy cows of Norwegian hockey, can do no wrong".
 
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Webster

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Yes, turnovers at the start of the third period that led to the Austrian breakaways were especially fine. Have you watched the games?



One of his "fine" moments, for example.


Are you implying it's different for all the drafted players (Texier, Bokk, Bjorkstrand, Protas, Rossi, Molgaard) who have played in this tournament before? I'm not stating anything revolutionary here, it's all based on precedent. And it's almost unprecedented, Teddy Blugers in 2013 was the only similar case I found although he arrived from NA (so add the jetlag) and only played 3 games. He also was a famously long-term project and didn't exactly wow in his junior career. Not to mention pre-2022 guys faced quite a bit stronger field too.

But that's what I hate in general. Both Fjorden and you, your attitudes seem to be "let's just blame the things we are supposed to blame, have prepared to blame since before the tournament in case it went wrong and turn a blind eye to what actually happened on the ice because these kinds, the holy cows of Norwegian hockey, can do no wrong".


Even the best NHL player can make a mistake, so if a kid who's 18 makes one it doesn't bother me at all. As I said, Solberg played very well in that game, and won the IIHF best player reward.

Did I watch the game? Yes, I was there. I've been inside Norwegian hockey for many years, so unlike you, I know what I'm talking about.

MBN and Solberg will be fine. And there are more talents on that team, Lafton who was picked by Utah looks really good. Others who look promising are Vatne, Eriksen and Aaram Olsen.

I know a lot of fans are disappointed after this tournament, thinking Norway was one of the favorites to win the group with two 1st round picks on the team and all. But it isn't that easy. This time there wasn't enough chemistry, too many one man efforts. You can blame parts of that on the coaching staff, but the talents are there.

They also lack discipline, most penalized team in the group. Or you can say at least they won the price for being the toughest team, right Stian? -)
 
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SoundAndFury

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May 28, 2012
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Even the best NHL player can make a mistake, so if a kid who's 18 makes one it doesn't bother me at all. As I said, Solberg played very well in that game, and won the IIHF best player reward.

Did I watch the game? Yes, I was there. I've been inside Norwegian hockey for many years, so unlike you, I know what I'm talking about.

MBN and Solberg will be fine. And there are more talents on that team, Lafton who was picked by Utah looks really good. Others who look promising are Vatne, Eriksen and Aaram Olsen.

I know a lot of fans are disappointed after this tournament, thinking Norway was one of the favorites to win the group with two 1st round picks on the team and all. But it isn't that easy. This time there wasn't enough chemistry, too many one man efforts. You can blame parts of that on the coaching staff, but the talents are there.

They also lack discipline, most penalized team in the group. Or you can say at least they won the price for being the toughest team, right Stian? -)
You are all over the place.

1. "If a kid who's 18 makes one it doesn't bother me at all" - with all due respect, nobody cares if it bothers you or not. If an NHL player makes mistakes and doesn't have a positive impact he probably didn't have a very good game. Same with these players in these games - they didn't play particularly well and it's somewhat ridiculous that you not only refuse to acknowledge it but insist on proving everyone otherwise.

2. "Won the IIHF best player reward" - IIHF best player awards are given by the coaches of the player's own team and the coach can have whatever agenda he wants. It's not surprising at all the coach felt Solberg, who played 3rd game in 3 days, deserved praise and appreciation for it. It's good when your star players feel noticed and appreciated. His drive was also admirable. It, however, doesn't say quite as much as you think it does about the quality of his play so you probably stop repeating it as some end-all-be-all argument. Norway didn't have a myriad of choices either.

3. "So unlike you, I know what I'm talking about" - ah, good old personal attacks. Classy. It's funny, I wrote hundreds of posts on these boards in the threads of this level of tournament over the years (which is easy to tell from my posts, I'd say) and this is the first time I see you posting about the Norwegian team here or in the "Norwegian roster" thread. But sure, you are very invested and know all about it and others are clueless idiots because you say so.

4. "MBN and Solberg will be fine. And there are more talents on that team" - this was never part of the debate. But I guess you didn't bother following the discussion, your opinions are good enough for you as is. Nobody was questioning the talent of Norwegian players or their team. In fact, many people, me included are on the record multiple times about Norwegians being the favorites. That's why their play and results are so disappointing to begin with.

5. "You can blame parts of that on the coaching staff, but the talents are there" - again, that's what this discussion is all about. About you refusing to acknowledge that talents who are there yet did nothing share part of the blame. Buffalo Sabres or Ottawa Senators also have a lot of talent. At some point, those underachieving talented players are [also] responsible for never doing anything with it.

All in all, I truly don't even understand why are Norwegians collectively so insistent on defending their super talents who did not deliver. That's contextualized by 10+ years of data and dozens of comparable players. Nobody is calling them busts, or talentless, or terrible but they did not deliver.
 
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Webster

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@SoundAndFury They delivered enough to stay in Division 1A, could have been worse.

My problem with your initial post was your attack on the two 1st round picks. Your view on Solberg is wrong, imo. They are teenagers who still have a lot to learn. And I told you why MBN didn't make a big impact out there.

As I said, I'm with the team and know exactly what's going on. They're disappointed but happy with some individual performances. But it's not the end of the world, move on.
 

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