Speculation: 2025-2026 Offseason Thread 2: lol Kucherov is never winning another MVP again is he?
- Thread starter AlwaysSunnyInTampa
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RSchmitz PhD
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We aren’t going to get Point or Kucherov to play different, when your finesse guys get their shit pushed in and rocked with injuries they stop being “tenacious”. Look at what happened to Johnson and Palat, Johnson became a shell of his former self and Palat became chronically injured. I feel like some of you have never played a physical sport, it's just not possible to grind it up against larger guys game after game. It's not just about having guts, your body breaks. LOL at this "it's not the size but how you use it" nonsense.
Personally I'm just LOLing at us turning into size queens when guys who were all like 6'1 were our best and most physical players
Stammertime91
TBL: TEAM OF THE CENTURY
Agreed for the most part. There are exceptions, but this is typically the rule.
Not a lot of guys, precisely smaller in stature, change their game from finesse to grit and manage good to above average results. Its usually bigger guys that hit a wall offensively and model their game to fit the gritty style that becomes useful in the postseason.
Stammertime91
TBL: TEAM OF THE CENTURY
Maroon, Bogosian and Perry are 6'3".
Luke Schenn 6'2".
Goodrow 6'2".
Coleman 5'11".
Sergachev 6'3".
The list goes on. We got considerably smaller and thats not counting probably two of the most consistent and best two way LWs in the last decade in Killorn and Palat who were more than capable of holding their own and neither ever played a finesse game. Killorn was always around the net minus maybe one or two less than stellar years and Palat was always the "straw that stirred the drink" no matter who he played with.
We went from those guys to Girgensons, Eyssimont, Chaffee, Glendening, Sheary, Gourde, Bjorkstrand, Moser, etc. The team went from plywood to kleenex. Its a joke.
CupsOverCash
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To be fair you can get size that doesnt do anything for you. The size that works now days needs to still be able to check/skate and play defense and/or contribute offensively. If they do even one of those things really well they're likely having a job and not just easily let loose by some other teams too. So I think my point is what we're kinda looking for doesnt exactly grow on trees. So you are maybe limited to at least finding guys who can and will physically do what's necessary. Yea the bigger guys will take the punishment easier but that also makes them harder to find too. I think we're all about getting tougher to play against. Whether that means you find someone who will kick your ass if they even look at kuch different or finding someone who just is willing to take the punishment, go to the tough areas and win puck battles. I think we tried to get what we're talking about with the trade for Jeannot. Maybe brings my point home even more. Maybe what we're talking about is getting a guy like Wilson but again these guys dont grow on trees. If we find one great but what's next best thing we can do is get a guy who is willing to do the gritty stuff when it matters in the playoffs.
I also appreciated our team before the sweep of the jackets. We were really good in the playoffs until we ran into a couple better teams in Blackhawks, pens, and caps. Caps were the first team that I thought actually figured out how to beat us besides outscoring us. That wasn't a deeper team than us they just knew how to slow the team down and use the size advantage the playoffs can do that with if you can also skate with them. That combo is what's hard to match. Jackets knew it next year and had that mismatch fall right to them. The next year we figured it out and realized we have to get tougher to play against on all 4 lines. And I feel like that's where we are again however we don't have a few of the same playoff studs like Johnson, Killorn, and Palat who would come up with big plays at big times. Who's done that for us since they left? Are any of those guys physical guys that we need but they did what we're talking about. Then we added guys like Goodrow and Coleman who could mix into the lineup well.
So to me its about what's possible to add. Can we get a few guys to complete that same formula because I dont think we have the foundation to be that heavy team. That takes a huge overhaul. Makes more sense to build off what you do well but add that tougher element to it. That sounds more like it would be possible and like what we did last time. But we still need our killorn Johnson and Palat to do the tough stuff too.
I wasn't trying to. I was saying to say the Leafs and Hurricanes suck and they have probably the longest track record of being pretenders than anyone. That is who the Panthers have been shutting down. But if you want to go that route, I am sure we can all remember everyone laughing at how bad the East has been in general for at least the last 6 years and how a broken playoff format has basically allowed either Tampa and Florida a free pass to the finals where they have to face a west team that's gotten the crap beaten out of them
Off the top of my head, how about the 65-win Bruins that they also shut down?
Florida is a juggernaut. They have shut down everyone. We really weren't running into this much of a problem before them.
That doesn't mean everything is fine. It's just a factor. When we think about Kucherov's draught, there's the caveat that most of those games were against the team that shuts down everyone they come up against excluding McDavid.
Crunchrulz
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Whether we admit it or not, the Panthers took the recipe the Lightning used for success, added in an improvement or two of their own flavor as the league changed, and are now where we were five years ago.
The Lightning on the other hand stayed pat with pretty much the same recipe; partially due to cap restraints, partially due to the loss of pipeline talent, and partially due to refusing to change from a system that had worked so well. The last three post seasons have proved that our recipe works well in the regular season but when it comes to showtime, our old recipe has been surpassed by the new and improved versions.
The Lightning on the other hand stayed pat with pretty much the same recipe; partially due to cap restraints, partially due to the loss of pipeline talent, and partially due to refusing to change from a system that had worked so well. The last three post seasons have proved that our recipe works well in the regular season but when it comes to showtime, our old recipe has been surpassed by the new and improved versions.
Felonious Python
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I think we got away from the formula. What was the purpose of having Girgs? He had never played in the NHL playoffs, but he was supposed to excel.
At cardio, maybe.
What was good about Pat Maroon was that he was a depth guy that had just won the cup, and given his relationship with Coop, he was listened to. The guys we kept are the ones at the top of the lineup. They're supposed to show the newer guys how to win, but they're not naturally geared towards that type of hockey. We apparently have to keep bringing everyone back because no one we have seems to be carrying the playoff identity we need.
Felonious Python
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RSchmitz PhD
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I think this is a case of in spite of being small, we're better off with one or two physical freaks at forward.
Also lol, what is a size queen? Death by snu snu?
RSchmitz PhD
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I agree you can't just have a large body out on the ice, you still need a hockey player, and that players with size are more difficult to find than those without. I don't think they are so rare that we couldn't have acquired one by now though for what we've given up over the last couple of years. The Tom Wilsons of the world? Sure, but someone like Kakko, for instance, could have been had quite easily.
Stelio Kontos
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- Nov 6, 2011
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This.. when we had those players if anyone ran Kucherov Hedman the team was responding in someway. 4th line being able to forecheck or create momentum was also big. 3rd line actually being able to score was nice. Now we have had Girgensons and Glendenning who do what.. Hedman gets ran every game no one does anything. Kuch fighting his own battles.
Chaffee was terrible last year against Florida yet he was better than gourde this year..
We were like the obnoxious little brothers who would occasionally go too far and hurt someone. The Panthers upped that ante and are the abusive big brothers.
I mean, the league isn't stepping in and policing it. So players will police it until someone gets seriously hurt.
This is gonna be an unpopular statement, but we are kind of seeing Don Cherry's case for fighting in the NHL playing itself out. The argument was always, if you don't let the players police themselves (with fights, as opposed to dirty hits) the league had better take care of it. And right now we are seeing what happens when the league doesn't take care of it.
Ok, but the Leafs scored against Ottawa. So Ottawa must suck. So now we are at 4 teams, which is half the east, and 5 if you count Boston, who Florida shut down.
I think the more likely explanation is Barkov is a HHOF two-way center, and the only guy in the league who's above getting shut down is McDavid.
But I also think it's reasonable to assume that there ARE guys in the league who will shut Kucherov down, which is why we also need depth.
Felonious Python
Minor League Degenerate
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The East has more or less been very, very weak for about 4 years. If you want to give the Panthers credit, do it for taking care of business against the Rangers. That of all series was their litmus test. They have been (in a vacuum) the ONLY legitimate non-state-of-Florida threat the Eastern Conference has produced.
Ottawa DOES suck
So did the Islanders
So did the Penguins
So do the Leafs
The Capitals have made it out of the 2nd round ONCE in Ovechkin's career. Biggest Paper Tigers in history. Beating them is a nothingburger in everyone's credibility.
Am I supposed to be impressed when Carolina beats all of them??
Boston can't beat anyone but the Leafs. I argue Urinatingtree said it best about Boston. Vancouver just out-choked the Bruins who have otherwise spent almost 18 years never getting the job done and may never have won a Cup vs anyone else. Choking their 65 win season was par for the course.
I don't mean to carry on. But THIS is why shutting down the Leafs and Canes doesn't impress me. The weakness of the playoff format, the Leafs being everyone's whipping boy and the weakness of the Metro division in general is rearing its ugly head.
I really only just wanted to talk about the Leafs and Canes man. I'm sorry but beating them doesn't blow my socks off. The Panthers' work vs NYR is a different story and if you want me to tip my cap then at least let me do it there instead of the Cats routinely pummeling the 2 of the biggest nothingburgers in hockey not called the Capitals
The Rangers are just about the only team in about the last 5 or 6 years who had what it took to beat us and Florida but we both found ways to win. I'm not so bitter that game can't recognize game there. I just think the Leafs and Canes aren't the best way to make your point about the Panthers
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Felonious Python
Minor League Degenerate
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Lol I think it was you who posted it here but some talking head showed a hound dog howling like its life counted on it and the caption was "Any time Julien BriseBois sees a grinder with size come on the market" I think we sold the farm for Jeannot that week.
I bring it up because I can see JBB watching this go down and he is howling again
Felonious Python
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Felonious Python
Minor League Degenerate
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Well damn man. If Kreider could be had for that little, I wish we'd have done it and made the Cirelli trade for another player
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