OT: 2024 Washington Commanders thread: change we can believe in!

Roric

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I’m starting to like McCarthy more and more.

I keep watching him.

And he does everything. And he played in a run first offense but came through almost every time he was needed.

Dont get me wrong… the upside on Daniels is through the damn roof. Higher than any of the prospects. But his low is low, imo. And McCarthy just turned 21
 

g00n

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JD definitely has RG3 vibes, the way he pulls it down and just goes Elastic Man running all over the field.

Remember how RG3 got hurt. He was running around the EXACT same way with limbs and shit flying everywhere, and the sheer law of averages eventually caught up with him and one day an opponent's body was plowing through the space occupied by his flailing knee.

If you're an NFL QB and you're constantly trying to contort your body to slip away from every defender on the field then someone is going to come through and lay you out.

Less than 2% of NCAA players make it to the pros, nevermind start or play defense.
 
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usiel

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Maye: The complaints about his footwork are a little confusing. Is it during delivery? No dropback after shotgun snap? I don't see it as that big of a deal unless he simply can't execute a basic crossover step, and as the son of a QB I doubt that's the case.

Another "negative" I've seen is the way he pats the ball before a throw. I don't know how much of a real issue this is for an NFL QB, as I've only ever seen amateur youtubers pointing it out. He doesn't do it all the time. It seems like an unconscious habit on some throws, probably from a feeling that the ball needs to be more firmly in the hand, or a trigger that a certain type of decision has been made. Also:

View attachment 816289

With both of these things--"footwork" and ball tapping--if some NFL QB coach decides to change these aspects of his game, it will probably be a few years before he shows NFL level consistency, because he will be thinking too much about long-ingrained habits instead of just playing and reacting to the situation. Too much thought about what your hands and feet are doing during a play is poison to flow.

The main issue with Maye in my eyes is whether or not the QOC has been comparable. I think he'll make it somehow in the NFL, but I'm not sure whether he's the next Joe Montana or Ryan Leaf.


Daniels: My first viewing of his play I think I said he was good running and on deep balls but that's all that was shown in his highlight reel. He's an ELITE scrambler...one of the best I've seen. That's his prime selling point.

But I've also seen video where his short and mid-range passing was picked apart for its accuracy and timing. That's a concern in an NFL offense (if a true deficiency and not the product of some armchair QB cherrypicking flaws). But how hard is it to fix? I think that's 100% mental for any QB and simply a matter of recognition and nerve.

WFT version of Cousins was hesitant to throw the ball and checked down quickly because he was afraid of throwing picks. Daniels had 40 TDS to 4 INTS so maybe he's really REALLY trying to avoid the interceptions, and that's causing the half-beat delay in short-mid range delivery. Whether or not he becomes as elite with those timing routes depends on his willingness to let that go a bit and trust the process, imo. If he does that, he'll be a top QB in the league... IF he can avoid being snapped in half.

He also pats the ball, so there's that.


Williams: This guy is an enigma. Aladdin's Lamp or Hellraiser cube. He's super high risk/reward in a lot of ways, but the allure of pure talent will be difficult for any team to resist.

Like the others he works out of the gun so you can't 100% apply it to an NFL offense that starts under center, except maybe the fact that he often does seem to have a "classic" crossover dropback step even in shotgun. Daniels does this a little bit, Maye not much, if at all.

When CW does take the snap he seems to go by the book for a few steps, and then he flips it to improv mode. His delivery angles and movements will vary based on the play, BUT he doesn't just bail out and run at the first sign of pressure.

Since all three of these QBs have some escapability and slightly different running talents, you have to look at what else sets them apart. With CW, for me, it's twofold...

First is the way he seems to WANT to climb the pocket and stay in it with his eyes downfield when possible. This is a coveted pro trait that I don't see with DM or JD, and it's probably one reason he has stats that show him holding onto the ball so long. DM and JD will make a few reads and then either huck it up or scramble when the first guy breaks through the line, but CW seems to want to stick with the play a bit more. I don't know if this is something you can teach a QB because it's such a primal "fight or flight" type instinct at its root.

Second is his freakish arm strength. CW would probably have one of the strongest arms in the NFL on day one. He can roll out and flick the ball across his body on a rope. This is also something you can't teach. It's a HUGE advantage if you're playing an NFL style offense with tight windows and precise timing, which again his basic demonstration of footwork will also acomodate.

Then there's the diva/headcase question...



Verdict: Unless something happens at the combine, it has to be Williams first. This is a reversal of my previous stance, which was based on possible diva status more than anything. You have to roll the dice and ignore that. Rub the lamp. The pocket presence and arm talent are HUGE advantages that, unless he's a total rockhead, will put him in position to possibly start in the in NFL week 1.

It's a toss-up between the other two for 2nd and 3rd pick. Maye's QOC is potentially problematic, and JD's frame and penchant to just pull it down and run complicate the equation.
Great post. Don't disagree with any of the QB traits for the three there. I would add that Maye's long throws are more like javelin throws where as with JD's he drops them in rainbow style with a lot of air.

I probably rank them Williams, Daniels (upside), Maye (frame higher floor). Maye is a sneaky good runner. When the season turned on Howell one thing I noticed he would not be decisive when it comes to pulling the ball to run he would wait so long and when he finally tucked it he was surrounded and sacked.
 

CapitalsCupReality

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JD definitely has RG3 vibes, the way he pulls it down and just goes Elastic Man running all over the field.

Remember how RG3 got hurt. He was running around the EXACT same way with limbs and shit flying everywhere, and the sheer law of averages eventually caught up with him and one day an opponent's body was plowing through the space occupied by his flailing knee.

If you're an NFL QB and you're constantly trying to contort your body to slip away from every defender on the field then someone is going to come through and lay you out.

Less than 2% of NCAA players make it to the pros, nevermind start or play defense.
Doesn’t scare me quite like a run first QB like AR did previously…..because he can make all the throws, both in and out of the pocket, with great mechanics and he doesn’t turn the ball over.

If he pans out, he’s Lamar Jackson with elite mechanics, or Mahomes with Lamar Jackson’s mobility. I’m so torn….I’ve always wanted Maye to come out on top at the #2 spot.
 

kicksavedave

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Brian Johnson is a great hire. He was the QB and WRs coach for the Eagles in 2021 and 2022, when their QB and WRs developed great and took them to a SB. He earned a promotion to OC for 2023 and was given play calling duties. They went 10-1, then stuff fell apart and both the OC (Johnson) and DC were fired. Johnsons play calling was questioned, but his development of the WRs and Jalen Hurts earned him the promotion. He won't be calling plays here but will be tasked with the QBs and WRs. So, again, great hire.
 

EroCaps

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I’m not sure what to make of Johnston or filling the coaching staff with reclamation projects.

My hope lays solely in the fact that they’ve got reasonable people making these calls and not living anti-football dark matter Dan Snyder.
 
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Roric

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Brian Johnson is a great hire. He was the QB and WRs coach for the Eagles in 2021 and 2022, when their QB and WRs developed great and took them to a SB. He earned a promotion to OC for 2023 and was given play calling duties. They went 10-1, then stuff fell apart and both the OC (Johnson) and DC were fired. Johnsons play calling was questioned, but his development of the WRs and Jalen Hurts earned him the promotion. He won't be calling plays here but will be tasked with the QBs and WRs. So, again, great hire.
At first glance I was like oh god but yeah you're right. Hopefully this will be good
 
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Ovechkins Wodka

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I’m not sure what to make of Johnston or filling the coaching staff with reclamation projects.

My hope lays solely in the fact that they’ve got reasonable people making these calls and not living anti-football dark matter Dan Snyder.
Yeah, it seems like we have our coaching staff basically filled. I really hope they don’t f*** up this draft pick.
 

EroCaps

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Yeah, it seems like we have our coaching staff basically filled. I really hope they don’t f*** up this draft pick.
Quinn did mention several times that he’s interested in what his staff and players do well and putting them in the position to maximize that. Kingsbury calling plays and Johnson coaching up the QB fits in with that.

I’m definitely not a fan of Mayhew still being involved in the hiring processes though. And Jason Wright still being in the building. It’s weird as f***.

If Adam Peters wants to be everyone’s friend things could derail from sheer lack of clarity and structure.
 

usiel

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Quinn did mention several times that he’s interested in what his staff and players do well and putting them in the position to maximize that. Kingsbury calling plays and Johnson coaching up the QB fits in with that.

I’m definitely not a fan of Mayhew still being involved in the hiring processes though. And Jason Wright still being in the building. It’s weird as f***.

If Adam Peters wants to be everyone’s friend things could derail from sheer lack of clarity and structure.
Bolded something that concerned me also.
 

StreetHawk

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It’s a low bar for all parties.

——————————————-
I’m very wary of drafting 5 year starters in college.

Also didn’t Daniels have teammates who f***ing hated him at Arizona?

If not Williams then Maye or McCarthy.
I agree that with Daniels and Nix, you have to take their performance as 5th year guys with a grain of salt. I mean, if they were really great prospects they'd have come out after 4 years starting in college. Like with Nix, see him at best as a #11-15 QB in the NFL. Lower ceiling, but if he can play well early, cheap contract to pay for players to surround him. But, after the rookie deal....

I do not put much stock into the rumours that Wash would trade up for Caleb. Quinn is the HC, not Kliff. OC can come and go if a HC job opens up. Take a QB at 2 and secure the OL in round 2. Go D the rest of the way.
 

RedRocking

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Maye: The complaints about his footwork are a little confusing. Is it during delivery? No dropback after shotgun snap? I don't see it as that big of a deal unless he simply can't execute a basic crossover step, and as the son of a QB I doubt that's the case.

Another "negative" I've seen is the way he pats the ball before a throw. I don't know how much of a real issue this is for an NFL QB, as I've only ever seen amateur youtubers pointing it out. He doesn't do it all the time. It seems like an unconscious habit on some throws, probably from a feeling that the ball needs to be more firmly in the hand, or a trigger that a certain type of decision has been made. Also:

View attachment 816289

With both of these things--"footwork" and ball tapping--if some NFL QB coach decides to change these aspects of his game, it will probably be a few years before he shows NFL level consistency, because he will be thinking too much about long-ingrained habits instead of just playing and reacting to the situation. Too much thought about what your hands and feet are doing during a play is poison to flow.

My understanding of Maye’s footwork issues:

1) He gets happy feet (even in clean pockets), so he’s needlessly hopping around, and not properly getting set for his throws. This affects the timing, and consistency of his throws.

2) Since he has such a strong arm, he gets lazy on some of the shorter/intermediary throws, and delivers off his back foot. This affects his accuracy, velocity and general consistency.

His footwork (along with the pats, and slight hitch in his throwing motion) seem like negative traits that are coachable. Hard to know how ingrained those bad habits are, and how quickly he can adjust ofc.

CW has footwork issues as well. I think most college kids do these days, since they play from shotgun so much. The old school timing of 3/5 step drops - from under center - seems like a lost art.
 
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kicksavedave

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Quinn did mention several times that he’s interested in what his staff and players do well and putting them in the position to maximize that. Kingsbury calling plays and Johnson coaching up the QB fits in with that.

I’m definitely not a fan of Mayhew still being involved in the hiring processes though. And Jason Wright still being in the building. It’s weird as f***.

If Adam Peters wants to be everyone’s friend things could derail from sheer lack of clarity and structure.

Peters and Mayhew worked together at SF for at least a year. So him being kept on isn't that shocking. Also, Mayhew didn't have final say here, RR did. Right now as far as we know, Mayhew is just Peters assistant, not a top decision maker.

I'm hoping Hurney is dismissed or sent to the basement with Milton soon.
 

AlexBrovechkin8

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I’m willing to give Mayhew a pass for now. He did some good things at Detroit as GM including being a part of a major decision his first draft in selecting Matt Stafford 1OA. Some of his players are still in the league today — Darius Slay, Matt Stafford, Reilly Reiff, Kyle Van Noy, Laken Tomlinson, and a few others — even though he left Detroit in 2015. He drafted a number of Pro Bowlers on both sides of the ball as well.

The reality is we have no idea what Mayhew did here since Ron had final say. He could be ass or he could have been pulling his hair out watching Ron ruin everything into the ground. Peters worked with him directly in SF so I’ll give him the benefit of the doubt for now, plus Mayhew won’t have decision making authority.

The one guy who really needs to go is Marty Hurney. He was awful in Carolina.
 

Ovechkins Wodka

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Also you really don't wanna purge everyone right before the draft. Id expect some guys to get fired after the draft
I was thinking about this and who our scouts are right now

And anyone involved in last year’s draft I hope to have no choice this year
 

usiel

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Also you really don't wanna purge everyone right before the draft. Id expect some guys to get fired after the draft
I remember him being ask about and alluded to no changes until draft which, as many have said here already, makes no sense to make changes till after. Do hope some fresh blood comes in on the scouting side.
 
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ynotcaps

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I agree that with Daniels and Nix, you have to take their performance as 5th year guys with a grain of salt. I mean, if they were really great prospects they'd have come out after 4 years starting in college. Like with Nix, see him at best as a #11-15 QB in the NFL. Lower ceiling, but if he can play well early, cheap contract to pay for players to surround him. But, after the rookie deal....

I do not put much stock into the rumours that Wash would trade up for Caleb. Quinn is the HC, not Kliff. OC can come and go if a HC job opens up. Take a QB at 2 and secure the OL in round 2. Go D the rest of the way.
Joe Burrow would like a word with you.
 

StreetHawk

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Joe Burrow would like a word with you.
You quoted that I wrote 4 years starting at college. Joe was in college for 5 years but only started for his 2 years at LSU. 28 total college starts.
Nix was a starter as a true freshman at auburn. 3 years there plus 2 more at Oregon. 61 starts.
Daniels got 55 starts in college. Lost most of 2020 due to the Pac12 Covid restrictions. Otherwise he also would have hit 60 as well.
 

ynotcaps

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Doesn’t scare me quite like a run first QB like AR did previously…..because he can make all the throws, both in and out of the pocket, with great mechanics and he doesn’t turn the ball over.

If he pans out, he’s Lamar Jackson with elite mechanics, or Mahomes with Lamar Jackson’s mobility. I’m so torn….I’ve always wanted Maye to come out on top at the #2 spot.
Keep in mind he was the 22nd leading rusher in CFB this year. Not among QBs. Among all players. So it's not like he hasn't shown the ability to take hits and get back up.

Id still take Caleb if he fell to us because if we were to pass on him after the Bears passed on him, he'd turn into Michael effing Jordan and whoever we picked would be Sam effing Bowie.

But Jayden's progressed throughout his career, showing he takes coaching and improves with it. I think that's a difference b/t him and Maye -- and, frankly, it's probably even a difference b/t him and CW. (But, again, Caleb has that whole unicorn thing, so...)

On a separate but related note, I am going mock-draft hiatus until closer to the combine -- finding myself locking into players at picks that are ultimately going to be totally improbable. We're in the post Senior Bowl, pre-combine & pro days lull -- it's a false calm.
 

ynotcaps

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You quoted that I wrote 4 years starting at college. Joe was in college for 5 years but only started for his 2 years at LSU. 28 total college starts.
Nix was a starter as a true freshman at auburn. 3 years there plus 2 more at Oregon. 61 starts.
Daniels got 55 starts in college. Lost most of 2020 due to the Pac12 Covid restrictions. Otherwise he also would have hit 60 as well.
Fair. But the bolded quote also suggests that great QBs come out after 4 years starting. That's not uniformly the case. I think there's also something to be learned from guys who are able to progress over their career, and maybe more-so from guys who are able to excel after changing systems.

(I admit to being a bit of a false prophet here, because I still think Bo Nix is the dud I watched for 3 years at AUB. Will I be wrong about that? Probably, but it's my unshakable belief. Until it's shaken.)
 

usiel

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My understanding of Maye’s footwork issues:

1) He gets happy feet (even in clean pockets), so he’s needlessly hopping around, and not properly getting set for his throws. This affects the timing, and consistency of his throws.

2) Since he has such a strong arm, he gets lazy on some of the shorter/intermediary throws, and delivers off his back foot. This affects his accuracy, velocity and general consistency.

His footwork (along with the pats, and slight hitch in his throwing motion) seem like negative traits that are coachable. Hard to know how ingrained those bad habits are, and how quickly he can adjust ofc.

CW has footwork issues as well. I think most college kids do these days, since they play from shotgun so much. The old school timing of 3/5 step drops - from under center - seems like a lost art.
I did watch a couple Maye videos where I just looked at the feat and did notice a lot of off the back foot stuff with still good zip so was wondering the velocity if he really planted his base and gunned it.

Need to check out some Mcarthy vids.
 

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