Player Discussion 2024 DRAFT 9th Overall Zayne Parekh RHD

I'd argue heavily that we aren't anywhere near as bad as we used to be in that sense. Otherwise guys like Zary, Pospisil, Coronato don't get the chances they have this year. Or Wolf for that matter.
Yeah, they're definitely not as bad as they used to be anytime Darryl Sutter is actively employed. But they're still pretty bad. One could easily make the argument that most of those guys should have been in the NHL sooner.

Like I said at the beginning of the season, that Conroy had signed too many useless veteran defencemen, thereby blocking the development of all the defensive prospects in the systems. And lo and behold, outside of Solovyov's 5 games, not a single other defensive prospect got a single second of icetime. It's shitty development is what it is.

The point is, the only time the Flames pay the slightest bit of attention to development is when they believe nothing's at risk. So in other words, the first year or two of a rebuild, or the first 10-15 games and last 1-2 games of a season where they have playoff aspirations. Like this year. Because they still operate in a fear based conservative approach.

Meanwhile the Blues literally had a 10+ game winning streak and were still inserting in rookies into the lineup in the midst of it. And one can just imagine the sheer level of hysteria if that was Calgary - "we can't take out a veteran during a winning streak! Imagine what it would do to the room?! The resentment it would cause! Oh won't someone please think of the veterans!!!"
 
Like I said at the beginning of the season, that Conroy had signed too many useless veteran defencemen, thereby blocking the development of all the defensive prospects in the systems. And lo and behold, outside of Solovyov's 5 games, not a single other defensive prospect got a single second of icetime. It's shitty development is what it is.

Only counter I'd throw out is it's easy to point that out, but Solo has also been the best D on the Wranglers, and he wasn't ready for full time either. Maybe Bruz impresses if he is called up, but I think most, if not all of our D prospects aren't quite ready yet.

Unfortunately it remains all hypothetical for now.
 
Yeah, they're definitely not as bad as they used to be anytime Darryl Sutter is actively employed. But they're still pretty bad. One could easily make the argument that most of those guys should have been in the NHL sooner.

Like I said at the beginning of the season, that Conroy had signed too many useless veteran defencemen, thereby blocking the development of all the defensive prospects in the systems. And lo and behold, outside of Solovyov's 5 games, not a single other defensive prospect got a single second of icetime. It's shitty development is what it is.

The point is, the only time the Flames pay the slightest bit of attention to development is when they believe nothing's at risk. So in other words, the first year or two of a rebuild, or the first 10-15 games and last 1-2 games of a season where they have playoff aspirations. Like this year. Because they still operate in a fear based conservative approach.

Meanwhile the Blues literally had a 10+ game winning streak and were still inserting in rookies into the lineup in the midst of it. And one can just imagine the sheer level of hysteria if that was Calgary - "we can't take out a veteran during a winning streak! Imagine what it would do to the room?! The resentment it would cause! Oh won't someone please think of the veterans!!!"
I don't exactly agree with this. We only brought in 2 defensemen this off-season, one of them was an instant replacement for Kylington who we all expected to re-sign anyways, and the other one is Barrie who is in the AHL now anyways. Bean is still only 26 and was a 13th OA pick, I would hardly call him a veteran and more of a low risk reclamation project.

Maybe you don't want to call it development but I think Pachal (25) and Bahl (24) took really big strides this year. Pachal was an NHL tweener when we got him and now I view him as a solid #5/6 NHL regular. Bahl was also playing bottom pair in New Jersey and grew into a legitimate #4 shutdown guy this year. These aren't vets.

Miromanov played top 4 last season and looked really good with Weegar, everyone was expecting him to continue to grow in that role. It's well known that we are looking for a new home for him for next season though, I doubt he's back

Of our AHL guys Solo is the only one that might be NHL ready. He's 24, physically mature and not a defensive liability. There's an argument for Kuznetsov but his ceiling just isn't that high, I could see him getting a #7 role in the NHL but not much higher. Brzustewicz would have had to wow out of camp to make the NHL, he still needs more time to marinate. Poirier has his flaws, gifted offensively it absolutely struggles defensively, if we were lower in the standings all season he might have been given a chance but that never happened.

Personally I would rather we let prospects marinate in the AHL than rush them to the NHL like Buffalo does. I'm not saying we let Suniev and Parekh watch the rest of the season but I think the org handled guys like Zary, Coronato, and Wolf perfectly.
 
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it's hilarious that people keep bringing up the Blues putting rookies into their lineup... completely ignoring that both Blues rookies are forwards and not defensemen, and Snuggerud has 2 extra years of development and Dvorsky (who they only dressed for 1 game) has an extra year of development and spent this year in the AHL.

On twitter I even saw TWC try and compare it to Makar, who again was not only a higher pick, but had an extra year of development.
 
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Draft position does not matter once you are drafted.

That line of thinking is what gives busts like Lafreniere and Kotkaniemi contracts they don’t deserve. Parekh’s body of work in his D+1 season would have him substantially higher than 9th in a redraft.

That said, the pining over Solovyov is a bit similar to when I was obsessed with Tyler Wotherspoon getting an extended look. It’s not gonna happen and this team will survive without him. Besides, Solo sealed his fate after falling on Vladar during the mess of a game he was having against Florida.
 
Personally I would rather we let prospects marinate in the AHL than rush them to the NHL like Buffalo does. I'm not saying we let Suniev and Parekh watch the rest of the season but I think the org handled guys like Zary, Coronato, and Wolf perfectly.

I honestly thought this franchise bought itself a little grace period considering they are dressing 9 sub-25 year old players this year, including a bunch of homegrown guys playing important roles.

Fans memories are short.
 
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Draft position does not matter once you are drafted.

That line of thinking is what gives busts like Lafreniere and Kotkaniemi contracts they don’t deserve. Parekh’s body of work in his D+1 season would have him substantially higher than 9th in a redraft.

That said, the pining over Solovyov is a bit similar to when I was obsessed with Tyler Wotherspoon getting an extended look. It’s not gonna happen and this team will survive without him. Besides, Solo sealed his fate after falling on Vladar during the mess of a game he was having against Florida.

He's also going to be 25 here at the end of the season, don't think it's anything we cry ourselves at night into our pillows about.
 
I think there's an argument to be made that stuffing him in without even looking at him in practice could ruffles feathers in the room. You're pushing a guy out who's been part of getting the Flames to this point for a guy who failed to make the team out of camp.

It could lead to Parekh being resented by teammates possibly. I'm not saying that would be justified.
This is an important thing. Barring a injury you are pulling out a player who has been here battling all year. At minimum he needs a couple practices/skates with the team. Barring wins over the next couple games, play him after the Wild game. If the Flames keep winning being around the team is good enough and then send him to the AHL.
 
There was never even a 1% chance that we would just throw him in without a few practices lol. I don’t know why people are even entertaining that. He obviously needs to practice with the team and get up to game speed. And there’s a chance he’s just not quite ready to play against men yet.

But as for the argument that it may ruffle some feathers in the room if we play him over guys who have been battling all year, we’d be the biggest joke of an organization of all time if we didn’t play him for that reason. For the first time since Tkachuk we have a blue chip prospect on our hands who look like he could be the next Hughes/Hutson. His OHL resume is literally off the charts and we’re the 2nd worst offensive team in the league. If we want to win games, we need to play our most dynamic players and score goals. If he is up to speed, he needs to play ASAP. We need it.

I don’t care if Bean or Pachal gets pissed off that this elite prospect jumps them on the depth chart. Maybe they should play better if they want to keep a roster spot. This is the NHL. It’s not like Bean or Pachal doesn’t make 2-3 bad mistakes a game in their 12 minutes of ice time against bottom competition. Play Parekh 12 minutes and give him O zone starts and PP2 time and see what we can do. It’s a no brainer (once he gets a few practices to settle in).

I get not wanting to play him against Minny in our biggest game of the year for his first NHL game, but he should 100% be playing the next game against the Sharks on Sunday regardless of whether we’re still in the race or not. And he may never be out of the lineup again after that
 
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I'm mostly just excited we have a teenager worthy of discussion for the NHL roster. A freshly turned 19 year old immensely talented RHD for a roster that could conceivably still make the playoffs no less.

For how abruptly and unfortunately the last Flames core of young players was broken up, really didn't take all that long for some new candidates to emerge. Hopefully Conroy can add another this summer, preferably a big fast natural centerman.
 
We're talking about different things. I'm not saying any of the defenceman with the Wranglers should have been everyday NHL'ers (even Solovyov should only have been part of bottom pair the rotation). What I am saying is that the Flames failed to leave room for any one of Kuznetsov, Brzustewicz, Grishnikov, or Poirier to get even a handful of NHL games. None of those four players are ready for full time roles but all of them needed to see limited and sheltered NHL time to continue their development. And that become impossible once they signed crap like Bean and Barrie on top of the mish mash of bottom pairing defencemen already on the roster in Miromanov, Hanley, & Pachel. There's was and still is just no room because it turns out having your entire defensive core go out with injuries at the same time almost never ever happens.

Anyway, with regards to Soloyov, folks are missing the big picture. It's not that I think or probably anyone anywhere thinks he's going to be a critical player for the Flames at any point. No, it's that he has the potential to be Kulak 2.0 and the Flames are wasting that, as they so often do. For those that don't remember the story of Brett Kulak, lucky you because it is a tale all of woe. It is a story of the penny wise, pound foolish, myopic inability of the Flames to understand the modern cap era that has plagued them under one Norman Murray Edwards.

See, Kulak was a 4th round draft by the Flames in 2012. And after spending a couple of seasons in the AHL that also just so happened to include several cups of coffee (!!!) with the Flames, he successfully made the jump in 2017-2018. Playing 71 games on the bottom pairing and putting up a unremarkable 2 goals and 6 assists, he was officially an NHL'er. More or less anyway. And then Treliving proceeded to throw it all away because otherwise there would no story here.

Kulak believed that he was a full time NHL'er and deserved a one-way contract while Treliving for reasons no one can even begin to fathom insisted on a two-way. So Kulak goes to arbitration and Kulak proceeds to win arbitration. He is awarded a one year, one-way deal at like 900K. And with his pockets full of the sourest of grapes, Treliving trades him to the Montreal Canadians for Matt Taormina and Rinat Valiev. Who? Exactly. Two pure AHL'ers that never saw a single second of ice time with the Flames, and indeed only spent one season with the farm team before moving to greener pastures.

Meanwhile, Kulak. Turns out Montreal suited him. And as young players often do, he continued to improve despite needing some more time in the AHL. By the end of his first season with the Habs, he had found a role and was re-signed to a 3 year deal at 1.85M per. And now we're getting to the close. The Canadiens were still a pretty miserable team so in Kulak's final year of his three contract, they flipped him at the deadline to the Oilers for William Lagesson, a 2nd round and a 4th round pick. Lagesson and the 4th went nowhere but the 2nd rounder? With the 62nd pick of the 2022 draft, the Montreal Canadiens are proud to select, defenceman Lane Hutson.

Yes that Hutson. The same one who's probably going to win the Calder over Dustin Wolf because of eastern bias. And also because he has 64 points in 78 games as a 21 year old rookie. Funny how things come back full circle isn't it? And meanwhile, after trading Kulak because who needed that bum anyway, Treliving proceeded to throw away a 4th for Fantenberg, a 3rd for Gustafsson, and a 4th for Forbert. Just solid GM'ing all round.

Concluding notes because I know this will all be wildly misinterpreted. No, the point is not that playing Solovyov now would guarantee the Flames a potential star down the road. Rather the point is that by playing the pump-and-dump game with their own prospects, the Flames would only give themselves the opportunity to profit off of their own picks regardless. That's literally the entire point playing guys like Solovyov, Kuznetsov, Poirier and probably even Kerins. All players who very likely have virtually no longterm future with the Flames should they ever find themselves a legit contenders one day in the future. But instead of writing them off and getting nothing out of it, think big picture for once. Give those players sheltered ice time on a bad team so they look like maybe's, then flip them for mid rounds picks or whatever. And lo and behold, that's your opportunity to find players with 1st round talent but weaknesses (i.e. size, skating, speaking Russian) that make them available in the 2nd or 3rd round. That's the point.
 
Draft position does not matter once you are drafted.

That line of thinking is what gives busts like Lafreniere and Kotkaniemi contracts they don’t deserve. Parekh’s body of work in his D+1 season would have him substantially higher than 9th in a redraft.
It shouldn't matter, but it does. And calling those players busts is f***ing laughable, underwhelming? Absolutely. Busts? Not in the slightest. If you don't believe teams are more willing to take a chance on a top 5 pick that has looked exceptional, over a top 10 pick that has looked exceptional, then you are either lying to yourself or delusional.
 
We're talking about different things. I'm not saying any of the defenceman with the Wranglers should have been everyday NHL'ers (even Solovyov should only have been part of bottom pair the rotation). What I am saying is that the Flames failed to leave room for any one of Kuznetsov, Brzustewicz, Grishnikov, or Poirier to get even a handful of NHL games. None of those four players are ready for full time roles but all of them needed to see limited and sheltered NHL time to continue their development. And that become impossible once they signed crap like Bean and Barrie on top of the mish mash of bottom pairing defencemen already on the roster in Miromanov, Hanley, & Pachel. There's was and still is just no room because it turns out having your entire defensive core go out with injuries at the same time almost never ever happens.

Anyway, with regards to Soloyov, folks are missing the big picture. It's not that I think or probably anyone anywhere thinks he's going to be a critical player for the Flames at any point. No, it's that he has the potential to be Kulak 2.0 and the Flames are wasting that, as they so often do. For those that don't remember the story of Brett Kulak, lucky you because it is a tale all of woe. It is a story of the penny wise, pound foolish, myopic inability of the Flames to understand the modern cap era that has plagued them under one Norman Murray Edwards.

See, Kulak was a 4th round draft by the Flames in 2012. And after spending a couple of seasons in the AHL that also just so happened to include several cups of coffee (!!!) with the Flames, he successfully made the jump in 2017-2018. Playing 71 games on the bottom pairing and putting up a unremarkable 2 goals and 6 assists, he was officially an NHL'er. More or less anyway. And then Treliving proceeded to throw it all away because otherwise there would no story here.

Kulak believed that he was a full time NHL'er and deserved a one-way contract while Treliving for reasons no one can even begin to fathom insisted on a two-way. So Kulak goes to arbitration and Kulak proceeds to win arbitration. He is awarded a one year, one-way deal at like 900K. And with his pockets full of the sourest of grapes, Treliving trades him to the Montreal Canadians for Matt Taormina and Rinat Valiev. Who? Exactly. Two pure AHL'ers that never saw a single second of ice time with the Flames, and indeed only spent one season with the farm team before moving to greener pastures.

Meanwhile, Kulak. Turns out Montreal suited him. And as young players often do, he continued to improve despite needing some more time in the AHL. By the end of his first season with the Habs, he had found a role and was re-signed to a 3 year deal at 1.85M per. And now we're getting to the close. The Canadiens were still a pretty miserable team so in Kulak's final year of his three contract, they flipped him at the deadline to the Oilers for William Lagesson, a 2nd round and a 4th round pick. Lagesson and the 4th went nowhere but the 2nd rounder? With the 62nd pick of the 2022 draft, the Montreal Canadiens are proud to select, defenceman Lane Hutson.

Yes that Hutson. The same one who's probably going to win the Calder over Dustin Wolf because of eastern bias. And also because he has 64 points in 78 games as a 21 year old rookie. Funny how things come back full circle isn't it? And meanwhile, after trading Kulak because who needed that bum anyway, Treliving proceeded to throw away a 4th for Fantenberg, a 3rd for Gustafsson, and a 4th for Forbert. Just solid GM'ing all round.

Concluding notes because I know this will all be wildly misinterpreted. No, the point is not that playing Solovyov now would guarantee the Flames a potential star down the road. Rather the point is that by playing the pump-and-dump game with their own prospects, the Flames would only give themselves the opportunity to profit off of their own picks regardless. That's literally the entire point playing guys like Solovyov, Kuznetsov, Poirier and probably even Kerins. All players who very likely have virtually no longterm future with the Flames should they ever find themselves a legit contenders one day in the future. But instead of writing them off and getting nothing out of it, think big picture for once. Give those players sheltered ice time on a bad team so they look like maybe's, then flip them for mid rounds picks or whatever. And lo and behold, that's your opportunity to find players with 1st round talent but weaknesses (i.e. size, skating, speaking Russian) that make them available in the 2nd or 3rd round. That's the point.
Say what you want about Barrie but he really hasn't been preventative of those prospects at all IMO, he was brought in on a PTO and was decent enough in camp to get a contract.

As for Bean, we signed him say 1 of free agency, and if it wasn't him it was going to be Kylington. Somehow this always gets forgotten. We didn't just go and fill the spot and block a prospect, we simply just signed a different player than the one that was already expected to be signed. Also at 25 he is hardly a vet. He was also signed on an to bury contact.

Miromanov was 100% expected to hold a top 4 spot this season, hell some of this boards regulars thought he would be a 40+ point player.

The thing with Kulak is that he is a 2nd chance player. Every single team lets these kind of guys go, just to see them figure it out somewhere else. He was a late bloomer, it's the exact same risk Calgary took with Miromanov and Pachal. Hell it was the same risk we took with Jake Bean. Look at Carter Verhaeghe, or Jalen Chatfield.
 
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If you think he can help you win he should be in the lineup it’s not that complicated. Our third pair has been getting absolutely caved despite being sheltered as someone said earlier in the thread

We’re really worried about ruffling the feathers of below replacement level 3rd pairing NHL defensemen? Do you think Montreal is worried about ruffling feathers with Demidov on the way?

If he can play then the vets and top guys are going to be happy to have him in the lineup, they’re not going to be upset that Bean or someone else is coming out
 
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If you think he can help you win he should be in the lineup it’s not that complicated. Our third pair has been getting absolutely caved despite being sheltered as someone said earlier in the thread

We’re really worried about ruffling the feathers of below replacement level 3rd pairing NHL defensemen? Do you think Montreal is worried about ruffling feathers with Demidov on the way?

If he can play then the vets and top guys are going to be happy to have him in the lineup, they’re not going to be upset that Bean or someone else is coming out
I will say it again.

The concern is how he'd react to potentially making a mistake that killed the hopes of making the playoffs.

I'm not for or against playing him, but the only concern is his development and risking hindering it. That is literally the only argument being made to not play him right now.

The only talk of ruffling feathers is about him getting tossed in without even practicing with the team, which is never going to happen.
 
If you think he can help you win he should be in the lineup it’s not that complicated. Our third pair has been getting absolutely caved despite being sheltered as someone said earlier in the thread

We’re really worried about ruffling the feathers of below replacement level 3rd pairing NHL defensemen? Do you think Montreal is worried about ruffling feathers with Demidov on the way?

If he can play then the vets and top guys are going to be happy to have him in the lineup, they’re not going to be upset that Bean or someone else is coming out

Not that I fully disagree or agree, but Demidov has been playing a full year in the KHL, which is vastly different than dominating junior.
 
Not that I fully disagree or agree, but Demidov has been playing a full year in the KHL, which is vastly different than dominating junior.
also forward vs defense, people see to completely ignore that playing defense is more difficult and often takes more development.
 
Not that I fully disagree or agree, but Demidov has been playing a full year in the KHL, which is vastly different than dominating junior.

And he’s no doubt a better prospect. I’m not the one to judge if he’s ready or not but if management and the coaching staff think he’s an upgrade on what we have now (he likely is) then I think he should be playing

It’s the talk of rustling feathers and being afraid of him making mistakes that kind of irks me

Like, Weegar has the most giveaways in the league, Ras is top 25. Kadri does dumb stuff all the time. Creative players make mistakes that’s part of the deal
 
And he’s no doubt a better prospect. I’m not the one to judge if he’s ready or not but if management and the coaching staff think he’s an upgrade on what we have now (he likely is) then I think he should be playing

It’s the talk of rustling feathers and being afraid of him making mistakes that kind of irks me

Like, Weegar has the most giveaways in the league, Ras is top 25. Kadri does dumb stuff all the time. Creative players make mistakes that’s part of the deal
there is also a difference between a veteran making those mistakes and a guy in his first few NHL games... throwing him in the deep end and hoping he can tread water is not a particularly good idea. Good prospects have been ruined time and time again by teams doing this.
 
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Hes said so himself hes not NHL ready and was overwhelmed playing against Hughes and Petts in the preseason. Hes not going in unless the Flames get knocked out.
 

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