Speculation: 2024/25 Trade Rumours, Speculation etc Thread

[Huffer]

He was supposed to help make the Moose a better offensive team than they have been. Is he a victim, or part of the problem?

Yes, he was an AHL all-star last year but look at the AHL careers of players who go on to be top 6 players in the NHL. Many of them never set foot in the AHL. The ones who did usually scored ppg or better, even in D+1, much less D+3. He is scoring at a rate that suggests a bottom 6 NHL'er. Does he have a bottom 6 game?

When you're the youngest player on the team and the leading scorer, that's a lot to hang solely on the player.

As for if he has a bottom 6 game, I doubt it, but I wouldn't say that's 100% certain either.

How many elite players even play in the AHL in their D+1 or even D+2? Truly elite players drafted in the top 10 usually play in the NHL because if they're drafted out of the CHL they can't go to the AHL. NCAA guys usually stay in the NCAA. I don't think anyone is putting Lambert in that tier.

If we look at just the 2022 draft, Savoie is the highest pick that played time in the AHL this year. He's got .822 PPG (to Lamberts .6) on a team that's scored 34 more goals. Geekie is at .24 PPG in the NHL. Nazar is doing well (1.14 on a team with 148 goals), McGroarty is at .62 on a team with 170 goals, Lekkerimaki is at .87 on a team with 162 goals, etc.

Lambert to me is such an interesting prospect because I have a real hard time getting a good read on him. His development has been really uneven.

When I watch him play you can see the talent. He's a world class skater with strong puck control. He can push dmen back with and has the vision to take advantage of the passing lanes he creates.

But you can also see where he needs to grow. One thing I've always been cautious about is his shot. He has below average shot and as explained in an earlier post he doesn't put himself in top scoring positions enough. I've always wondered just how much of threat to score at the NHL level and this season hasn't really done much alleviate those concerns. I also question if he plays a style of ay that will fit in with the forwards we have. Almost all of our top 6 guys excel off a cycle/rotation game where they find soft ice in the slot. Lambert doesn't play that way. He likes circling around the outside with the puck and putting long range shots on net.

So I have a hard time with this player. When he plays a more direct game and goes to the trenches he's dangerous and I have no issue waiting to see if he can get to that game consistently. He does that and he can make a difference on the Jets.

With regards to junior production Lambert was also on a stacked team so I wouldn't be using caliber of team to distinguish the two players d plus 1 scoring rates.

What Yager has going for him is that his style of play is more projectable to the type of C's the org has liked in the 2 spot. He also has a pro caliber shot and atleast in junior has shown a propensity to get to the slot. It will be incumbent on Braydon to continue to do so at the pro level if he is to be that C we want.

I don't disagree with anything you're saying. The overall point on my post that I was quoted on though was, hey, maybe looking at only this past season on the Moose where they are by far the worst team in the AHL with no scoring talent isn't the best method to decide that he's someone that will never make it and can be easily traded.

Maybe he doesn't make it after all. I'm not making that claim either way. Just commenting on the short sightedness.

And I agree with the different styles between Lambert and Yager. I hesitated to even bring him up, but the point there is that both guys had similar D+1 scoring rates, and Lambert also had a really good D+2 in the AHL. When 1 guy is 21 and the other is 20, looking at Lambert as a finished product that should have been able to carry a bad AHL team but looking at Yager like a prospect with room to grow seems illogical IMO.



Summary: I'm not the President of the Lambert fan club, nor making any proclamations that he will ever be a top 6 NHL player. Just that his most recent season in the AHL on the worst offensive team in the league shouldn't be his only measuring stick. And looking at other players drafted in the 1st round of his draft (top 5 or 10 withstanding), I don't think he's much off any of the other forwards pace when you account for the quality of the Moose this season.

 

[surixon]

When you're the youngest player on the team and the leading scorer, that's a lot to hang solely on the player.

As for if he has a bottom 6 game, I doubt it, but I wouldn't say that's 100% certain either.

How many elite players even play in the AHL in their D+1 or even D+2? Truly elite players drafted in the top 10 usually play in the NHL because if they're drafted out of the CHL they can't go to the AHL. NCAA guys usually stay in the NCAA. I don't think anyone is putting Lambert in that tier.

If we look at just the 2022 draft, Savoie is the highest pick that played time in the AHL this year. He's got .822 PPG (to Lamberts .6) on a team that's scored 34 more goals. Geekie is at .24 PPG in the NHL. Nazar is doing well (1.14 on a team with 148 goals), McGroarty is at .62 on a team with 170 goals, Lekkerimaki is at .87 on a team with 162 goals, etc.



I don't disagree with anything you're saying. The overall point on my post that I was quoted on though was, hey, maybe looking at only this past season on the Moose where they are by far the worst team in the AHL with no scoring talent isn't the best method to decide that he's someone that will never make it and can be easily traded.

Maybe he doesn't make it after all. I'm not making that claim either way. Just commenting on the short sightedness.

And I agree with the different styles between Lambert and Yager. I hesitated to even bring him up, but the point there is that both guys had similar D+1 scoring rates, and Lambert also had a really good D+2 in the AHL. When 1 guy is 21 and the other is 20, looking at Lambert as a finished product that should have been able to carry a bad AHL team but looking at Yager like a prospect with room to grow seems illogical IMO.



Summary: I'm not the President of the Lambert fan club, nor making any proclamations that he will ever be a top 6 NHL player. Just that his most recent season in the AHL on the worst offensive team in the league shouldn't be his only measuring stick. And looking at other players drafted in the 1st round of his draft (top 5 or 10 withstanding), I don't think he's much off any of the other forwards pace when you account for the quality of the Moose this season.

The only thing that really concerns my on his Moose season is his goal scoring. I'm more then content to let him develop and do agree that there is some impatience here. Perhaps because a good many where hyping him up to make the team out of camp and he's looking further away then expected.

I only deal him for a long term solution at RD or center. Anything else and I'd much rather bet on him making the team at some point next year and not looking back.

The prospect I'm quite fine in moving is Barlow who looks to have peaked in his draft year and really doesn't offer much value other then goal scoring. If he were to make it, it would be in a far more narrow situation then say Brad.

 

[Huffer]

The only thing that really concerns my on his Moose season is his goal scoring. I'm more then content to let him develop and do agree that there is some impatience here. Perhaps because a good many where hyping him up to make the team out of camp and he's looking further away then expected.

I only deal him for a long term solution at RD or center. Anything else and I'd much rather bet on him making the team at some point next year and not looking back.

The prospect I'm quite fine in moving is Barlow who looks to have peaked in his draft year and really doesn't offer much value other then goal scoring. If he were to make it, it would be in a far more narrow situation then say Brad.

Agree, it would be nice to see some more goals for sure. He does have a nice shot when he uses it IMO, and you're right about him needing to try and get more into the slot.

I'm ok with moving Lambert as well for a longer term solution at RD or C. When the Flames were further back and Murat and other Athletic writers did their thing on selecting a player to trade for and another writer setting the price, Murat chose Weegar and the price was Lambert. I would have been more than happy to make that trade (add a little as well if required).

 

[Thechozen1]

View attachment 983765

I really like Walman too, but San Jose would be crazy to trade him barring a huge overpay.

 

[BobTheSolarsystem]

I really like Walman too, but San Jose would be crazy to trade him barring a huge overpay.

I'd hang on to both him and Ferraro until next TD... extend one of them - prob Ferraro

By 2027 season they will be rid of the old guys and should be a playoff team - unless Grier keeps the rebuild going forever

 

[BobTheSolarsystem]

Jets trade deadline is getting tricky... I'm really leaning towards no changes other than depth value signings in case of injury - like a Colin Miller

1st and 3rd lines are rock solid so we don't want to mess with that... second line is finally clicking and Iafallo is playing some of his best hockey...

Kyrou would be a solid add if Chevy feels Ehlers is going to test the market... even if he ends up on our fourth line for the playoffs

Evans has the speed to fit in and better hands than Kupari - plus a shorthanded scoring threat

Novak could be a value deal with his down year in Nashville - bit of a gamble but prob a 2nd round pick

 

[DRW204]

Jets trade deadline is getting tricky... I'm really leaning towards no changes other than depth value signings in case of injury - like a Colin Miller

1st and 3rd lines are rock solid so we don't want to mess with that... second line is finally clicking and Iafallo is playing some of his best hockey...

Kyrou would be a solid add if Chevy feels Ehlers is going to test the market... even if he ends up on our fourth line for the playoffs

Evans has the speed to fit in and better hands than Kupari - plus a shorthanded scoring threat

Novak could be a value deal with his down year in Nashville - bit of a gamble but prob a 2nd round pick

The second line has been producing at 5v5 as of late. However they may have trouble in the PO's. Ehlers is still a question mark on playoff production and without the PP Perfetti and Namestnikov are not reliable scorers. So if the whistles get put away, unless this recent scoring is sustainable, it may be tough sledding.

 

[DRW204]

I really like Walman too, but San Jose would be crazy to trade him barring a huge overpay.

I've been on the Walman train too. Id hope he replaces Stanley but I don't think so. One of them would just play RD.

 

[10Ducky10]

The deal can be sent to head office, that doesn't mean its immediately approved.

I just think you have to be compliant until after the TDL.
@mouser can you weigh in?

We really need a new Buf…I miss watching him play


It’s actually 3pm New York Time, or EST, where head office is located

oops I meant to type ET. Thanks.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

When you're the youngest player on the team and the leading scorer, that's a lot to hang solely on the player.

As for if he has a bottom 6 game, I doubt it, but I wouldn't say that's 100% certain either.

How many elite players even play in the AHL in their D+1 or even D+2? Truly elite players drafted in the top 10 usually play in the NHL because if they're drafted out of the CHL they can't go to the AHL. NCAA guys usually stay in the NCAA. I don't think anyone is putting Lambert in that tier.

If we look at just the 2022 draft, Savoie is the highest pick that played time in the AHL this year. He's got .822 PPG (to Lamberts .6) on a team that's scored 34 more goals. Geekie is at .24 PPG in the NHL. Nazar is doing well (1.14 on a team with 148 goals), McGroarty is at .62 on a team with 170 goals, Lekkerimaki is at .87 on a team with 162 goals, etc.



I don't disagree with anything you're saying. The overall point on my post that I was quoted on though was, hey, maybe looking at only this past season on the Moose where they are by far the worst team in the AHL with no scoring talent isn't the best method to decide that he's someone that will never make it and can be easily traded.

Maybe he doesn't make it after all. I'm not making that claim either way. Just commenting on the short sightedness.

And I agree with the different styles between Lambert and Yager. I hesitated to even bring him up, but the point there is that both guys had similar D+1 scoring rates, and Lambert also had a really good D+2 in the AHL. When 1 guy is 21 and the other is 20, looking at Lambert as a finished product that should have been able to carry a bad AHL team but looking at Yager like a prospect with room to grow seems illogical IMO.



Summary: I'm not the President of the Lambert fan club, nor making any proclamations that he will ever be a top 6 NHL player. Just that his most recent season in the AHL on the worst offensive team in the league shouldn't be his only measuring stick. And looking at other players drafted in the 1st round of his draft (top 5 or 10 withstanding), I don't think he's much off any of the other forwards pace when you account for the quality of the Moose this season.

Actually, quite a few who don't come from the CHL play either D+1 or D+2 in the AHL. And, as you mention, the best players go straight to the NHL out of the draft. Lambert is now in D+3 where a lot of the 2nd rank of talent play in the AHL. Typically, I believe, most of those who will make in the top 6 score at a ppg pace and don't spend too long in the AHL. I'm sure some of them play on weak AHL teams too.

I never said he will never make it. But he is not looking great. I said that those who make top 6 usually score better than he is.

Not just you, but many here, keep talking about him as though he is some very strong prospect. Maybe not blue chip but just a little below that. I don't see it that way. He is a prospect but with several question marks. I'm not using this season with the Moose as his only measuring stick. Easily tradeable? I wouldn't say that, but I wouldn't hesitate to part with him for a decent return.

 

[Huffer]

Actually, quite a few who don't come from the CHL play either D+1 or D+2 in the AHL. And, as you mention, the best players go straight to the NHL out of the draft. Lambert is now in D+3 where a lot of the 2nd rank of talent play in the AHL. Typically, I believe, most of those who will make in the top 6 score at a ppg pace and don't spend too long in the AHL. I'm sure some of them play on weak AHL teams too.

I never said he will never make it. But he is not looking great. I said that those who make top 6 usually score better than he is.

Not just you, but many here, keep talking about him as though he is some very strong prospect. Maybe not blue chip but just a little below that. I don't see it that way. He is a prospect but with several question marks. I'm not using this season with the Moose as his only measuring stick. Easily tradeable? I wouldn't say that, but I wouldn't hesitate to part with him for a decent return.

I've not said he's right below blue chip, and I also think he has question marks. And I also would part with him for the right return which I've posted numerous times. So I don't need words put in my mouth.

100% my initial point was that using this season only as a measure is crazy when taking into account this Moose team (post 5294), which you decided to disagree with in post 5373.

 

[surixon]

Actually, quite a few who don't come from the CHL play either D+1 or D+2 in the AHL. And, as you mention, the best players go straight to the NHL out of the draft. Lambert is now in D+3 where a lot of the 2nd rank of talent play in the AHL. Typically, I believe, most of those who will make in the top 6 score at a ppg pace and don't spend too long in the AHL. I'm sure some of them play on weak AHL teams too.

I never said he will never make it. But he is not looking great. I said that those who make top 6 usually score better than he is.

Not just you, but many here, keep talking about him as though he is some very strong prospect. Maybe not blue chip but just a little below that. I don't see it that way. He is a prospect but with several question marks. I'm not using this season with the Moose as his only measuring stick. Easily tradeable? I wouldn't say that, but I wouldn't hesitate to part with him for a decent return.

He's also a late birthday so d plus 3 is more like d plus 4 for most prospects. It's not a huge deal but it's worth noting that he's had an extra year of development then most.of his draft class.

 

[CanMerc]

I just think you have to be compliant until after the TDL.
@mouser can you weigh in?


oops I meant to type ET. Thanks.

If I remember correctly, in the CBA, it’s referenced as 3pm EST, 40 days prior to the last day of the regular season. Everything switches at 3pm on that day.

 

[voyageur]

I'm not so sure about him. He looks okay superficially, but his on-ice shot metrics are really bad. Hard to assess these on awful teams, though.

I'd be much more enthusiastic about Walman. He'd be expensive, but he's really good. He'd fill in on the top pairs of needed due to injuries.

Watching the San Jose game he didn't look really good. He looked like he had no positional awareness. He was giving up odd man rushes. Just floating. But it's funny Detroit got rid both he and Maatta and they put up decent stats when gone.

Ferraro is the hard defensive zone guy. He was hitting everybody, one play he made on Perfetti stood out as creating a rush. Just being more powerful. Gets scored on in tough situations, which means he's the guy coaches rely on with a lead.

Definitely would want Ferraro over Walman and I think most hockey observers would too.

 

[DRW204]

I've not said he's right below blue chip, and I also think he has question marks. And I also would part with him for the right return which I've posted numerous times. So I don't need words put in my mouth.

100% my initial point was that using this season only as a measure is crazy when taking into account this Moose team (post 5294), which you decided to disagree with in post 5373.

Agreed.
I try not to get into prospect talk to much bc it's futile and extreme margins of error. But looking at Lambert's year without the context of the Moose team is disingenuous imo. Is a 20 year old supposed to be a PPG player and +20 pts on the next guy? He's a good prospect, not elite and his prospect-caerer to date has shown some ups and downs. Some in his control, some not.

 

[DRW204]

I'm not so sure about him. He looks okay superficially, but his on-ice shot metrics are really bad. Hard to assess these on awful teams, though.

I'd be much more enthusiastic about Walman. He'd be expensive, but he's really good. He'd fill in on the top pairs of needed due to injuries.

How expensive would Walman be? He's been traded for cheap 2x now, Maybe that sticks a bit to him a bit

I like him as an add though. At 5v5 he's a -2 on a team that's -42. He's playing well relative to the rest, not to mention his PPG is similar to Pionk's while being a more efficient 5v5 scorer than him, and doesn't have the benefit of a historic Jets team PP. If added, he would possibly get Stanley out the line up, as well as the addition of offensive dimension/depth if the Jets are down in games and load up Morrissey-Pionk.

All in all, think he'd be a v good depth addition with top 4 upside.

 

[voyageur]

How Andrew Copp’s Injury Affects the Red Wings’ Cap Space | Puckpedia

Image © Rick Osentoski-Imagn Images

www.puckpedia.com

I thought this was a good article to explain a couple of things. How LTIR affects Cap space, but also talks about the prorated aspect of salaries, so that you could see how easy it would be for the Leafs to acquire both Schenns at a rate where the Leafs are acquiring only 20 something % of a Cap Hit at this time of year. Which is how the deadline Cap space is calculated.

Jets are set here, they can swing for the fences if they want. They can also call up more players after the deadline, and start to rotate players in and out of the lineup with a cushion to work with, if they want to keep everyone fresh down the stretch. I'm think particularly the top 4 d-men.

 

[gojetsgo]

How Andrew Copp’s Injury Affects the Red Wings’ Cap Space | Puckpedia

Image © Rick Osentoski-Imagn Images

www.puckpedia.com

I thought this was a good article to explain a couple of things. How LTIR affects Cap space, but also talks about the prorated aspect of salaries, so that you could see how easy it would be for the Leafs to acquire both Schenns at a rate where the Leafs are acquiring only 20 something % of a Cap Hit at this time of year. Which is how the deadline Cap space is calculated.

Jets are set here, they can swing for the fences if they want. They can also call up more players after the deadline, and start to rotate players in and out of the lineup with a cushion to work with, if they want to keep everyone fresh down the stretch. I'm think particularly the top 4 d-men.

Toronto Maple Leafs Contracts, Cap Hits and Salary Cap | Puckpedia

See the cap space, latest contracts, injury news, and transactions for the Toronto Maple Leafs including salaries, cap hits, buyouts and draft picks on PuckPedia.

puckpedia.com

take a look at their deadline cap space and tell me how it is easy

fyi before we called up JAD we had 10.5 current cap space and a projected 12.7 or so at the deadline

 

[voyageur]

Toronto Maple Leafs Contracts, Cap Hits and Salary Cap | Puckpedia

See the cap space, latest contracts, injury news, and transactions for the Toronto Maple Leafs including salaries, cap hits, buyouts and draft picks on PuckPedia.

puckpedia.com

take a look at their deadline cap space and tell me how it is easy

20% of Brayden Schenn's 6.25 million salary is $1.25 million. 20% of Luke Schenn's salary is $550 000. The other 80% has been paid by the team that has been paying them all year. Maybe I am missing something?

 

[Mad Dog Tannen]

The second line has been producing at 5v5 as of late. However they may have trouble in the PO's. Ehlers is still a question mark on playoff production and without the PP Perfetti and Namestnikov are not reliable scorers. So if the whistles get put away, unless this recent scoring is sustainable, it may be tough sledding.

I think it’s been proven via stats that penalties called are pretty similar number wise.

I think the difference is the intensity and physicality.

KFC was pillow soft at 4 nations. Will he be able to protect the puck using force? He got pushed off it super easy a couple of times yesterday. (I’ve been watching for it now)

Same goes for Ehlers, Perfetti etc. it’s probably why someone like Lowry finds the back of the net at a higher rate when compared to the regular season.

It’s also why I don’t want to trade for Evans. Dude can’t even handle a clean hit!

20% of Brayden Schenn's 6.25 million salary is $1.25 million. 20% of Luke Schenn's salary is $550 000. The other 80% has been paid by the team that has been paying them all year. Maybe I am missing something?

Ummm. If someone has an 8 million dollars contract - you still need 8 million of room in cap space at the deadline. It’s contract size.

Unless I have been completely wrong about it every trade deadline.

 

[DRW204]

I think it’s been proven via stats that penalties called are pretty similar number wise.

I think the difference is the intensity and physicality.

KFC was pillow soft at 4 nations. Will he be able to protect the puck using force? He got pushed off it super easy a couple of times yesterday. (I’ve been watching for it now)

Same goes for Ehlers, Perfetti etc. it’s probably why someone like Lowry finds the back of the net at a higher rate when compared to the regular season.

It’s also why I don’t want to trade for Evans. Dude can’t even handle a clean hit!


Ummm. If someone has an 8 million dollars contract - you still need 8 million of room in cap space at the deadline. It’s contract size.

Unless I have been completely wrong about it every trade deadline.

Ah okay. Anecdotally feel like they get less and less calls as PO games progress. But I have not seen any recent or more historic stats.

 

[Weezeric]

20% of Brayden Schenn's 6.25 million salary is $1.25 million. 20% of Luke Schenn's salary is $550 000. The other 80% has been paid by the team that has been paying them all year. Maybe I am missing something?

If the click the little question mark beside each number it explains how it works. When LTIR space is used it counts from the AAV

 

[Wpgpage]

Ummm. If someone has an 8 million dollars contract - you still need 8 million of room in cap space at the deadline. It’s contract size.

Unless I have been completely wrong about it every trade deadline.

You have been completely wrong about it. On deadline day you only have to have enough cap space left to acquire the remaining amount on the players contract at that point. For instance if the Jets wanted to acquire Brayden Scheen today the actual cap impact would only be 1.693 mil. It's more complicated than that as as the cap is actually tracked daily and teams under the cap accrue additional space for each day that they are under but for the purposes of deadline discussions it's all pro rated.