CrazyDuck4u
Registered User
- Oct 14, 2006
- 7,247
- 4,359
Biggest issue with our team is inconsistent play from the vets.. and Young guys didnt step up.
Speculation: 2024-25 Roster thread
- Thread starter Leonardo87
- Start date
ZegrassyKnoll
Registered User
- Dec 2, 2016
- 872
- 1,444
So our biggest issue is that both the old guys and the young guys are bad lol
All Mighty
Registered User
We need to trade him ASAP. I don't think he's this bad, but we just don't need him anymore.
MMC
Global Moderator
Record with Fowler out: 5-4-2 (only one loss by more than 1 goal, the first game he was out)
Record with Fowler back: 0-3-1 (3 losses by 3+ goals)
Defense gave up 4+ goals only twice while he was gone, already three times since he's been back
Record with Fowler back: 0-3-1 (3 losses by 3+ goals)
Defense gave up 4+ goals only twice while he was gone, already three times since he's been back
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Deuce22
Registered User
Hey, what are you doing manufacturing a narrative out of thin air?
MMC
Global Moderator
I’m not gonna be as hard on him as some here, he gave us many good seasons, but he’s definitely gotta go at this point. Too many young LHD who need to be playing over him and unlike guys like Trouba, Dumo, and Gudas, he is clearly not a fit for the way Vercronin want this defense to be playing. I really don’t think it’s a coincidence that the defense had settled in and was playing well in his absence and now seems to be struggling again with him back. Gonna have to figure out a trade soon
Correlation vs Causation
Seeing two variables moving together does not mean we can say that one variable causes the other to occur. This is why we commonly say “correlation does not imply causation.”
The negative that Fowler coming back does bring is a lack of consistency in the lineup and the pairings. I don't trust cronin's ability to manage that effectively.
Ducks are dead last in GF, and 2nd to last in GF/GP, only Nashville is worse. Look at this team's production...
This is not good hockey or a good way for the kids to develop. Cronin needs to go before Jan.
This is not good hockey or a good way for the kids to develop. Cronin needs to go before Jan.
dracom
Registered User
We’re also last in shots against. We’re literally not doing anything good under cronin
Deuce22
Registered User
His elite skill (skating) that made him good is no longer a thing. There is no way in a rebuilding/developmental year that two young D who are NHL players should be scratched every night. It's past time.
Yeah, this is where I'm at. Mostly I still defend him just because I don't want to hear, "See?!? He's bad! I've been telling you this for years!" from his detractors, completely missing how erroneous that line of thinking is.
But he isn't good any more, at least not for this team in this system. It's time to move on.
Terry might get to 60 and will be our leader, but i think he'll finish mid to high 50s assuming he stays healthy. I think Leo will finish 2nd but i'm not too confident about that. Our 2nd leading scorer probably maxes out in the mid-40s with a considerable chance of it being in the 30s. Just absurd lol
Mctavish has a chance to get 2nd too - a dark-horse candidate lol
Firequacker
used wall of text! It's not very effective...
- Jun 3, 2022
- 374
- 752
If the anti-Fowler zealots could just stop the snide strawmanning bs, maybe they'd get less pushback.
Fowler has been bad. He's been on for 4 GA in two of the last four games. His PK GA/60 (and xGA/60 if that's your thing) are the worst of any Ducks defenseman who's PKed more than four minutes on the season, the even strength numbers aren't quite that bad but they're close. The eye test is unkind, at best. He's earned plenty of criticism.
It's actually 100% possible to agree that Fowler has been bad, be ready for him to be gone, and still not think "teehee look, he's a literal dark magic curse ruining the entire team! Hockey has zero other variables beyond whether Cam Fowler is in the lineup!" is the peak of clever commentary. But no, anyone who pushes back on that (or the equally obnoxious "see he's always been bad and if you've ever said a good word about him you were wrong then too!") is just a Fowler defender who can't handle the truth and thinks he had a good game last night (all actual comments from the game thread). No, Fowler is bad but you're also unhinged about him, these two things can coexist just fine.
It's 100% a narrative, and it's beyond boring, but the Fowler haterade has to get shoved into everything because people think playing a broken record at full volume is cute and funny.
The "he's always sucked" people trying to take a victory lap now is basically like when Gibson finally gets traded and Seravalli says "see, I've been telling you for years it would happen!"
Fowler has been bad. He's been on for 4 GA in two of the last four games. His PK GA/60 (and xGA/60 if that's your thing) are the worst of any Ducks defenseman who's PKed more than four minutes on the season, the even strength numbers aren't quite that bad but they're close. The eye test is unkind, at best. He's earned plenty of criticism.
It's actually 100% possible to agree that Fowler has been bad, be ready for him to be gone, and still not think "teehee look, he's a literal dark magic curse ruining the entire team! Hockey has zero other variables beyond whether Cam Fowler is in the lineup!" is the peak of clever commentary. But no, anyone who pushes back on that (or the equally obnoxious "see he's always been bad and if you've ever said a good word about him you were wrong then too!") is just a Fowler defender who can't handle the truth and thinks he had a good game last night (all actual comments from the game thread). No, Fowler is bad but you're also unhinged about him, these two things can coexist just fine.
It's 100% a narrative, and it's beyond boring, but the Fowler haterade has to get shoved into everything because people think playing a broken record at full volume is cute and funny.
I mostly just wanted to highlight this.
The "he's always sucked" people trying to take a victory lap now is basically like when Gibson finally gets traded and Seravalli says "see, I've been telling you for years it would happen!"
Hockey Duckie
Registered User
The Ducks are bad. Fowler is bad. Both can be true, but the Ducks being bad overwhelms Fowler being bad.
I've denoted that Minty and Gudas have been terrible for a while and even worse together. Fowler is less terrible. I don't mind Minty getting a rest in for Fowler. Just hoped that Gudas could get a rest too, but know it will never happen. With the Trouba trade increasing more vet d-men on our NHL roster, we really need to move on from Fowler b/c it's putting two youth d-men in the press box at a time. That is deflating since the NHL is Verbeek's development ground, not the AHL.
I'm not defending Fowler. I'm defending we started to struggle before Fowler returned with respect to SoS and lack of scoring. In the five games prior to Fowler's return, we faced one above-.500 team (LA at 0.587 Pts %) and three sub-.500 teams (Buf, Sea x2, and Ott). We should have rolled up 4-1-0. Instead, we struggled to a 2-2-1 record, going into OT twice with a 1-1 record against sub.-500 teams. We were already in a downward spiral. No one else paid attention to SoS to start our season, save me.
Getting blown out against VGK (0.674 Pts %) and Minny (0.727 Pts %) were inevitable outcomes, as both are stronger teams than LA. Against all three above-.500 teams, we only scored one goal. Struggling against Montreal was surprise and also not a surprise as it supported our downward spiral. We have continually blown leads with or without Fowler. The blowout against Ottawa was eye opening. Give Ottawa credit for making adjustments that Cronin could not do.
This is akin to me discussing how Cronin's ES offense was worse than Eakins' ES offense late last season and off-season, but the masses kept saying it's due to injuries despite me sharing that Cronin had his eight top-6 talents outscore Eakins' six top-6 talents. New season with everyone healthy and the same Cronin offense. This time everyone is shitting on Cronin because Cronin's offense for the 2nd year is producing less than Eakins. The Cronin system is bad.
I've denoted that Minty and Gudas have been terrible for a while and even worse together. Fowler is less terrible. I don't mind Minty getting a rest in for Fowler. Just hoped that Gudas could get a rest too, but know it will never happen. With the Trouba trade increasing more vet d-men on our NHL roster, we really need to move on from Fowler b/c it's putting two youth d-men in the press box at a time. That is deflating since the NHL is Verbeek's development ground, not the AHL.
I'm not defending Fowler. I'm defending we started to struggle before Fowler returned with respect to SoS and lack of scoring. In the five games prior to Fowler's return, we faced one above-.500 team (LA at 0.587 Pts %) and three sub-.500 teams (Buf, Sea x2, and Ott). We should have rolled up 4-1-0. Instead, we struggled to a 2-2-1 record, going into OT twice with a 1-1 record against sub.-500 teams. We were already in a downward spiral. No one else paid attention to SoS to start our season, save me.
Getting blown out against VGK (0.674 Pts %) and Minny (0.727 Pts %) were inevitable outcomes, as both are stronger teams than LA. Against all three above-.500 teams, we only scored one goal. Struggling against Montreal was surprise and also not a surprise as it supported our downward spiral. We have continually blown leads with or without Fowler. The blowout against Ottawa was eye opening. Give Ottawa credit for making adjustments that Cronin could not do.
This is akin to me discussing how Cronin's ES offense was worse than Eakins' ES offense late last season and off-season, but the masses kept saying it's due to injuries despite me sharing that Cronin had his eight top-6 talents outscore Eakins' six top-6 talents. New season with everyone healthy and the same Cronin offense. This time everyone is shitting on Cronin because Cronin's offense for the 2nd year is producing less than Eakins. The Cronin system is bad.
Deuce22
Registered User
You miss the point. Fowler (and Gudas) aren't going to be here when Ducks become good again (hopefully). You don't scratch Mintyukov 3 games in a row for "development" reasons. You scratch him because the coach doesn't have the balls to scratch a vet. Gudas and Fowler have been worse than ALL of the young D. Winning games and pandering to vets shouldn't be the goal here. Ducks are in a rebuild year.
This assumes that a young player who is struggling can't be helped by a couple games off to reset mentally. I'm with just about everyone else who thinks Cronin isn't the right guy for the job, but I don't think sitting a young player temporarily is always a bad idea. It can be helpful.
You can flip that argument on its head and say they guy who needs to sit and rest is the guy who has a longer term future than the other guys.
Its 3 games. People are getting way too worked up over 3 games to give a kid a break.
Right, wrong, or indifferent, the guy they put the C on isnt getting scratched. The guy they are trying to trade isnt getting scratched.
I dont like that Lacombe, Minty or Helleson are in the position of getting scratched, but given the alternatives, it makes the most sense.
Hockey Duckie
Registered User
Out of all of our young D, Minty is struggling the most and it is alarming. It is also possible that Minty was playing through an injury. You're saying to keep playing Minty playing while he's struggling? That's similar to saying play through injury. Why are you mimicking Cronin and Verbeek? Guess the point flew over your head. We want to protect Minty when he's young so that he can improve into the future.
Minty's last game before being healthy scratched was Dec 1st. You cannot use the DZ start% as a crutch since Helleson also has a similar DZ start%, but his CF% is much better than Minty's.
More evidence Minty needed a break
Here are Minty's last four games before the healthy scratch via Stat Cards. Minty's play reflects two extremes, great in one game or not-so-great in three games. That is a scary trend for Minty. Conflate that with being a turnover machine, then it looks like Minty did need an intervention to catch a breather.
Why in the hell would we continue to trot out a downtrodden Minty when we could pull him out for a bit for "developmental" reasons? (That's rhetorical.) Minty is the future. Let's not ruin his future by continually getting ragged on the ice. A few games break for a young D can't hurt. LaCombe went through it last year and you had no problem with it. No one did b/c LaCombe needed the break. LaCombe then became the most improved player last year.
Nov 25th
Nov 27th
Nov 29th
Dec 1st
Deuce22
Registered User
I think the Seattle game shows he wasn’t playing hurt. As for needing a break due to poor play, he just turned 21 and isn’t going to be consistently good. The struggles are part of the growth. Did LaCombe need a break last night? Does Zellweger need one tonight? Is Helleson living in the press box because he was struggling? Scratching the young D to keep vets in there every night is counterproductive to the rebuild.
