Speculation: 2024-25 Roster thread

[robbieboy3686]

Agreed. But it’s not just on the players who should be better. It’s also the coaching and system. Cronin’s one good move was putting Z with Leo over the last several games. I know Z likes to play C, but he has looked really good up there.

The problem with Z is, regardless of his speed test. On the ice he’s slow moving ( getzlaf had a way to slow the game down too, but he was a large human being. ) when you’re slow, you allow defenders to pounce on you. And Zegras doesn’t have the strength to push them off or skate away from them with his lack of speed. You all talk about Cronin zapping away his creativity. I call that a sorry excuse. He’s been asked to learn a more 2 way game. He seems to be embracing the defensive part of the game. Good for him. Eventually he will find a hybrid style that works well for him.

 

[ScarTroy]

I see this argument commonly but it makes no sense to me. Goals are goals, it doesn't matter where they come from. You wouldn't call 15 points in 18 games going crazy? Michkov is nearly ppg on a shit team.



So our best rebuttal is that one of our young guys "only" has 4 less points? It's shit performances all the way down, someone needs to step up in a big way.

No the rebuttal is that Michkov isn’t “going crazy” regarding Leo. The other guys sure, but they really shouldn’t be compared to Michkov.

 

[ZegrassyKnoll]

I understand and share frustration about our offense as whole, although if we had been playing our whole season like we've been playing the past week I doubt there would be much frustration.

I don't understand frustration that Michkov or Bedard, players who were projected to put up more points than Leo, are putting up more points than Leo.

 

[ohcomeonref]

No the rebuttal is that Michkov isn’t “going crazy” regarding Leo. The other guys sure, but they really shouldn’t be compared to Michkov.

To be fair, people here would be so jacked if Leo had 15 in 18 instead of 11 in 19. One of them is .83 ppg while the other is .58.

I understand and share frustration about our offense as whole, although if we had been playing our whole season like we've been playing the past week I doubt there would be much frustration.

I don't understand frustration that Michkov or Bedard, players who were projected to put up more points than Leo, are putting up more points than Leo.

Why can't Carlsson be competitive with those guys? Bedard is tiny and on a worse team than the Ducks. Michkov is also pretty small, it's his first year of NA hockey, and again on a worse team than the Ducks.

It all just seems like more excuses for our guys. It gets tiring telling everyone how "great he looks, the points will come" constantly. To touch on what @Leonardo87 said above as well: I absolutely give the coaching it's share of blame for our lack of production but at some point our guys have to step up too.

 

[ZegrassyKnoll]

To be fair, people here would be so jacked if Leo had 15 in 18 instead of 11 in 19. One of them is .83 ppg while the other is .58.


Why can't Carlsson be competitive with those guys? Bedard is tiny and on a worse team than the Ducks. Michkov is also pretty small, it's his first year of NA hockey, and again on a worse team than the Ducks.

It all just seems like more excuses for our guys. It gets tiring telling everyone how "great he looks, the points will come" constantly. To touch on what @Leonardo87 said above as well: I absolutely give the coaching it's share of blame for our lack of production but at some point our guys have to step up too.

I am genuinely confused - how is being only 4 points behind them not competing with them? He has more goals than Bedard, but would 3 more secondary assists scattered throughout the season make a huge difference?

Not to mention, Michkov is -3. Bedard is -6. Leo has an even +/-. So despite having fewer points, his team is better when he is on the ice than either of those two.

If you are going to be upset that Michkov and Bedard are outpacing him in points then you will likely spend the next 10-15 years being upset.

 

[Mr Rogers]

I mean just generally, without really looking too much into stats, Leo hasn’t been great this year. He still has his moments of incandescence, but I’d say he’s been invisible to even slightly noticeably not great a lot of the time. I was hoping he’d get around 60 points or so but I’m not even sure he’ll get much beyond 40 the way it’s going. He lacks focus it seems.

 

[ZegrassyKnoll]

I mean just generally, without really looking too much into stats, Leo hasn’t been great this year. He still has his moments of incandescence, but I’d say he’s been invisible to even slightly noticeably not great a lot of the time. I was hoping he’d get around 60 points or so but I’m not even sure he’ll get much beyond 40 the way it’s going. He lacks focus it seems.

Agree to disagree I guess.

I would say he's had about 3 actually bad games, including last night, and has otherwise been good if not great.

 

[Mr Rogers]

Agree to disagree I guess.

I would say he's had about 3 actually bad games, including last night, and has otherwise been good if not great.

I mean I’m not saying he’s had a bunch of bad games. Just like in a majority of them I think he’s played low-event hockey and was a non-factor. And the rest have been like 50/50 good and bad. He just hasn’t really made his imprint yet IMO.

But I guess we disagree in terms of the last thing you wrote. I don’t he’s been great or even good on the whole.

 

[Rooch]

I mean just generally, without really looking too much into stats, Leo hasn’t been great this year. He still has his moments of incandescence, but I’d say he’s been invisible to even slightly noticeably not great a lot of the time. I was hoping he’d get around 60 points or so but I’m not even sure he’ll get much beyond 40 the way it’s going. He lacks focus it seems.

He's 19 years old! Seems like the real issue is your unrealistic expectations.

 

[Mr Rogers]

He's 19 years old! Seems like the real issue is your unrealistic expectations.

Agree to disagree. 60 is really not a huge ask for a 19 and really 20 y.o. Of his pedigree. And is focus and attention to detail too much to ask of any player?

We can’t keep making excuses for our young guys given their pedigree. Whether it’s saying we have too high expectations or other players on their lines are screwing stuff up (can’t blame Killorn for everything)

 

[Hockey Duckie]

I am genuinely confused - how is being only 4 points behind them not competing with them? He has more goals than Bedard, but would 3 more secondary assists scattered throughout the season make a huge difference?

Not to mention, Michkov is -3. Bedard is -6. Leo has an even +/-. So despite having fewer points, his team is better when he is on the ice than either of those two.

If you are going to be upset that Michkov and Bedard are outpacing him in points then you will likely spend the next 10-15 years being upset.

At this current rate, Carlsson is project to produce 26g + 22a = 48 pts over the course of the season. That's not good at all in Carlsson's 2nd season. Z is projected to score 9g + 22a = 31 pts over the course of the season. Z used to produce over 60 points for two consecutive seasons. I blame coaching and roster makeup (GM).

 

[ohcomeonref]

I am genuinely confused - how is being only 4 points behind them not competing with them? He has more goals than Bedard, but would 3 more secondary assists scattered throughout the season make a huge difference?

Not to mention, Michkov is -3. Bedard is -6. Leo has an even +/-. So despite having fewer points, his team is better when he is on the ice than either of those two.

If you are going to be upset that Michkov and Bedard are outpacing him in points then you will likely spend the next 10-15 years being upset.

If the difference in production continues at this rate it's going to be a huge gulf by the end of the season, not just 4 points. That's my concern.

And honestly if our team had just 4 more goals this season, that could literally be 2-3 wins. If you want to pretend points on the PP don't count and +/- is a better determinant, that's fine. We were also somewhat sold on the idea that while Carlsson might not achieve the same kind of point totals as Bedard/Michkov/etc that he would likely become an overall better player. At this point, I don't see it.

Somehow this became a Leo-specific thing but I am ultimately talking about all of our high-end forwards. I don't care how good Z looks, he needs to put up 60+ points consistently. Mac is far and away the worst offender of all, but I'm not dunking on him since he may have had a nagging issue of some kind. Hopefully he comes out and blows the doors off when he comes back on Monday.

 

[Ducks DVM]

I understand and share frustration about our offense as whole, although if we had been playing our whole season like we've been playing the past week I doubt there would be much frustration.

I don't understand frustration that Michkov or Bedard, players who were projected to put up more points than Leo, are putting up more points than Leo.

This was my question as well. Michkov went where he did because of the Russia concerns, not because Fantilli and Carlsson were better players.

Also, it’s still early.

 

[Ducks DVM]

Agree to disagree. 60 is really not a huge ask for a 19 and really 20 y.o. Of his pedigree. And is focus and attention to detail too much to ask of any player?

We can’t keep making excuses for our young guys given their pedigree. Whether it’s saying we have too high expectations or other players on their lines are screwing stuff up (can’t blame Killorn for everything)

He’s a bigger player who’s not done growing. He was always going to take an extra year or two over the smaller players, the big guys always do.

 

[Rooch]

Agree to disagree. 60 is really not a huge ask for a 19 and really 20 y.o. Of his pedigree. And is focus and attention to detail too much to ask of any player?

We can’t keep making excuses for our young guys given their pedigree. Whether it’s saying we have too high expectations or other players on their lines are screwing stuff up (can’t blame Killorn for everything)

He's second on the team in scoring and has four game-winning goals in 19 games. You're inventing a problem that just doesn't exist.

 

[ScarTroy]

At this current rate, Carlsson is project to produce 26g + 22a = 48 pts over the course of the season. That's not good at all in Carlsson's 2nd season. Z is projected to score 9g + 22a = 31 pts over the course of the season. Z used to produce over 60 points for two consecutive seasons. I blame coaching and roster makeup (GM).

How is 48 points not good for a second season? That would be better than guys like Barkov, Jack Hughes among others. Especially considering even you yourself thought he should have been in Sweden last year (which I agree with). Coaching 100% is a factor, but Leo appears to be right around where his projection would suggest based on comparable level players in their same season.

 

[Rooch]

At this current rate, Carlsson is project to produce 26g + 22a = 48 pts over the course of the season. That's not good at all in Carlsson's 2nd season. Z is projected to score 9g + 22a = 31 pts over the course of the season. Z used to produce over 60 points for two consecutive seasons. I blame coaching and roster makeup (GM).

In his second year in the league, playing on a MUCH better team, Corey Perry had 44 points. He eventually won a Hart Trophy. Can we shift our focus to the REAL problems with this team?

 

[Mr Rogers]

He's second on the team in scoring and has four game-winning goals in 19 games. You're inventing a problem that just doesn't exist.

I have zero problems with Leo, I just think he could be playing better than he is and don’t have low expectations for him.

 

[Mr Rogers]

He’s a bigger player who’s not done growing. He was always going to take an extra year or two over the smaller players, the big guys always do.

I guess that was kind of baked into my +/- 60 points expectation. I just looked at the expectations thread and it seems like a handful of people had him around 60 or even more. Idk, I just don’t think it is like a huge ask. But sure, I’m not concerned or anything and players progress differently.

 

[ZegrassyKnoll]

After whatever happened that made them shift in the Detroit game, in the last 4 games we have:

Zell - 5pts
Leo - 4 points
Z - 4 points
Cutter - 3 points
Minty - 2 points

It just feels pretty clear to me that they are all capable of performing under the correct conditions, so I’m not overly concerned about any one player.

I am concerned about Cronin’s ability to create those conditions, so the next 15 or so games will be more of a reflection of him than of any of the young guys. Even if Cronin reverts I don’t think it will create some unrepairable regression that will permanently affect their development, I think it will just suck to watch until we get a new coach.

 

[Bergey37]

Have any of you considered that maybe, just maybe, all the pain, hard work, tough love and discipline are beginning to pay off? That the players know the expectations and have accepted them and are executing? It's my understanding that Cronin was brought in to teach hard work and discipline; this is only 6 games now of truly elevated play and it's not yet perfect by any means. Still, EVERYBODY has elevated their play and if it keeps up, I'd think it fair to say that Cronin has done his job well.