2024-25 Roster Thread #2: Midseasonnar

[freakydallas13]

They had to have scouted Dickinson extensively since he's on the same team with Bonk and Barkey.

He fits what they were looking for, a big mobile offensively skilled D-man who is a potential #1.

Citation needed.

 

[flyersnorth]

Random question of the day.

What do you folks think about the Brayden Schenn trade all these years later?

Schenn and Cocaine King Lehtera for Morgan Frost and Joel Farabee.

The article below basically says it's about as even a trade as you can get.... thoughts?

Revisiting the Brayden Schenn Trade - The Hockey Writers Blues History Latest News, Analysis & More

When the Blues acquired Brayden Schenn from the Flyers, they got a quality player, but did they give up too much to get him?

thehockeywriters.com

 

[FlyerNutter]

Random question of the day.

What do you folks think about the Brayden Schenn trade all these years later?

Schenn and Cocaine King Lehtera for Morgan Frost and Joel Farabee.

The article below basically says it's about as even a trade as you can get.... thoughts?

Revisiting the Brayden Schenn Trade - The Hockey Writers Blues History Latest News, Analysis & More

When the Blues acquired Brayden Schenn from the Flyers, they got a quality player, but did they give up too much to get him?

thehockeywriters.com

Think I was a fan at the time, probably would change my stance on that now.

Not because of the stagnation/limited ceiling we have with Frost/Farabee - but moving Schenn without moving other core pieces didn't make a whole lot of sense to me looking back. If you decided to keep Jake, and G. Might as well have kept Schenn, and tried to run with it.

 

[deadhead]

Random question of the day.

What do you folks think about the Brayden Schenn trade all these years later?

Schenn and Cocaine King Lehtera for Morgan Frost and Joel Farabee.

The article below basically says it's about as even a trade as you can get.... thoughts?

Revisiting the Brayden Schenn Trade - The Hockey Writers Blues History Latest News, Analysis & More

When the Blues acquired Brayden Schenn from the Flyers, they got a quality player, but did they give up too much to get him?

thehockeywriters.com

It made sense for St Louis, though they didn't expect to miss the POs and have the Flyers pick #14.

It would have made sense for the Flyers if they had a coherent strategy.

At the time, Hextall seemed to be returning to the rebuild after making only minor deals since the 2015 TDL (when he traded Kimmo and Coburn). But then the team has an unexpected bounce in 2017-18 and he signs JVR for big bucks - and the team promptly regresses to the mean.

 

[flyersnorth]

Think I was a fan at the time, probably would change my stance on that now.

Not because of the stagnation/limited ceiling we have with Frost/Farabee - but moving Schenn without moving other core pieces didn't make a whole lot of sense to me looking back. If you decided to keep Jake, and G. Might as well have kept Schenn, and tried to run with it.

Kinda the same for me. I was a fan of the trade at the time. Still think it was the right move, I guess.

Schenn has been a 20-25 goal scorer pretty consistently, won a Stanley Cup. Poor on faceoffs. 0.75 PPG player in STL. Generally decent play driver.

Frost has been a 0.48 PPG guy, Farabee 0.53.

There might yet be another part to this trade if either Frost or Farabee get moved - alone or in a package - for something else.

 

[freakydallas13]

It still blows my mind that Hextall moved on from Schenn but held on to Simmonds. That seemed like a layup in terms of ease to complete, but he never pulled the trigger.

 

[Beef Invictus]

It still blows my mind that Hextall moved on from Schenn but held on to Simmonds. That seemed like a layup in terms of ease to complete, but he never pulled the trigger.

This is the thing I always come to. Beyond being completely unsure what the hell Hextall was trying to do at that stage of a rebuild that was supposed to be winding up. Deal Schenn, keep Simmonds? Why? Made no sense.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

This is the thing I always come to. Beyond being completely unsure what the hell Hextall was trying to do at that stage of a rebuild that was supposed to be winding up. Deal Schenn, keep Simmonds? Why? Made no sense.

At least with the New Era of Orange we know exactly why players are moved out and why players aren't moved out.

 

[MOGlLNY]

Geniune question as a Sabres fan - has their ever been any talk of Lombardi interviewing for another team's GM job? Is the Senior Advisor role with Bobby Clarke and the boys too cushy to leave? Feels like it's a "job for life" kinda thing where they don't get much of the scrutiny or spotlight if they fail.

 

[deadhead]

Geniune question as a Sabres fan - has their ever been any talk of Lombardi interviewing for another team's GM job? Is the Senior Advisor role with Bobby Clarke and the boys too cushy to leave? Feels like it's a "job for life" kinda thing where they don't get much of the scrutiny or spotlight if they fail.

It's more a little spending cash kind of job, doubt they pay those advisors "real" money.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

Does anybody even want Lombardi? It’s been a decade since he last ran a successful team & he quickly ran it into the ground before being fired which is hard to do in this league. His only other meaningful job past that has been the Team USA GM debacle at the 2016 World Cup.

 

[deadhead]

This is the thing I always come to. Beyond being completely unsure what the hell Hextall was trying to do at that stage of a rebuild that was supposed to be winding up. Deal Schenn, keep Simmonds? Why? Made no sense.

I think Hextall simply couldn't emotionally commit to a rebuild, even though Snider gave him the green light. So every time the team showed life, he stopped in his tracks.

The dead cat bounce of 2015-16 powered by Mason & Neuvirth having career years.
Then after regression to the mean, trades Schenn.
The career peak season of 2017-18.
Signs JVR, then gets fired after they regress to the mean again.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

 

[MOGlLNY]

Does anybody even want Lombardi? It’s been a decade since he last ran a successful team & he quickly ran it into the ground before being fired which is hard to do in this league. His only other meaningful job past that has been the Team USA GM debacle at the 2016 World Cup.

I think similar to Chicago his downfall was being too loyal to guys who won a cup with past their expiration date.

 

[deadhead]

That's the "no no no, . . . great move" response.

Torts has different rules for Michkov for a reason, Michkov is good enough to get away with crap other players shouldn't try and deserve to be benched if they do.

He also has different rules for TK for the same reason, he knows TK makes a lot of brain dead plays, but that's who he is, and the good outweighs the bad.

 

[CerpinTaxt]

Essentially dont try to score cause if you dont its a turn over. May as well never shoot the puck onto the net at all then cause if the other team gets the rebound its a turn over. Good lord.

 

[CapnZin]

Model: Magnus 8 (EV)

Visualizations and predictions for understanding hockey.

hockeyviz.com

Have fun!!

I’m not the math wiz that McCurdy is, however, given his Magnus 8 model, Laughton would need to reduce xGA 7.09 over the remaining 63 games to even out a league average defensive forward. Given his line usage, isolated metrics, and reduced TOI, we are looking at a tough ask for that. Those stats don’t mean everything, but if you go to a stat intensive team then asking for a 1st rounder in a trade then Briere will get a laugh out of them.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

That's the "no no no, . . . great move" response.

Torts has different rules for Michkov for a reason, Michkov is good enough to get away with crap other players shouldn't try and deserve to be benched if they do.

He also has different rules for TK for the same reason, he knows TK makes a lot of brain dead plays, but that's who he is, and the good outweighs the bad.

Or… Michkov said “I’m just going to be me and play my game” ala Ghost.

 

[deadhead]

I’m not the math wiz that McCurdy is, however, given his Magnus 8 model, Laughton would need to reduce xGA 7.09 over the remaining 63 games to even out a league average defensive forward. Given his line usage, isolated metrics, and reduced TOI, we are looking at a tough ask for that. Those stats don’t mean everything, but if you go to a stat intensive team then asking for a 1st rounder in a trade then Briere will get a laugh out of them.

I doubt Laughton was ever worth a 1st without assets coming back (draft picks, salary dump).
Comparables were a 1st with a 3rd going back or a 2nd and 3rd.

He might be worth a bit less now b/c he's really not a center, but he still has value to a PO team b/c of PK, 4LW, PP2 (he can shot).

Happy to trade Laughton and our own 2nd for a 1st. Or a 3rd for a 2026 1st.

 

[Flyer lurker]

Our Torts is growing up. He can now sing 1999 by Prince.
21st century scitzoid man still out of the question.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

Random question of the day.

What do you folks think about the Brayden Schenn trade all these years later?

Schenn and Cocaine King Lehtera for Morgan Frost and Joel Farabee.

The article below basically says it's about as even a trade as you can get.... thoughts?

Revisiting the Brayden Schenn Trade - The Hockey Writers Blues History Latest News, Analysis & More

When the Blues acquired Brayden Schenn from the Flyers, they got a quality player, but did they give up too much to get him?

thehockeywriters.com

To me, this is the fatalistic hindsight that misses the point of meaningful evaluation. The Risto trade will still be awful if he wins a Norris here. The Ellis trade will always be fine despite the immediate implosion.

Both the overuse of Lehtera and Farabee’s existence have no bearing on the trade itself. Frost we can say does because they knew they would get him when they made the trade. The Flyers got 2 1sts, one known to be acquiring a player I had solidly in the 1st round, while trading away a thoroughly average Middle 6 player who was about to become less cost-controlled. And that’s a hard trigger to pull. It’s the moment I had the most hope for this franchise since the 2012 Playoffs. And I doubt it will be topped anytime soon.

Lukewarm take: If the Blues lose in the Finals, 75%+ of the people that love it for them change their minds.

 

[deadhead]

To me, this is the fatalistic hindsight that misses the point of meaningful evaluation. The Risto trade will still be awful if he wins a Norris here. The Ellis trade will always be fine despite the immediate implosion.

Both the overuse of Lehtera and Farabee’s existence have no bearing on the trade itself. Frost we can say does because they knew they would get him when they made the trade. The Flyers got 2 1sts, one known to be acquiring a player I had solidly in the 1st round, while trading away a thoroughly average Middle 6 player who was about to become less cost-controlled. And that’s a hard trigger to pull. It’s the moment I had the most hope for this franchise since the 2012 Playoffs. And I doubt it will be topped anytime soon.

Lukewarm take: If the Blues lose in the Finals, 75%+ of the people that love it for them change their minds.

The problem wasn't the trade, 2 late rd picks is a very good return for a 2nd line forward (Flyers didn't expect to draft #14).

The problem was the context of the trade, it was a rebuilding move after a disappointing season that should have made it clear the team was 3-4 players away from being a SC contender - but there was no follow up.

Our Torts is growing up. He can now sing 1999 by Prince.
21st century scitzoid man still out of the question.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

The problem was the context of the trade, it was a rebuilding move after a disappointing season that should have made it clear the team was 3-4 players away from being a SC contender - but there was no follow up.

How do I square away your Fletcher takes (did the job he was hired to do) with this when we know how much internal pressure on Hextall there was to spend?

How is this materially different from the current Flyers getting a few extra 1sts and then letting it ride?

Why was trading two mid-rounders (one recouped a month later) for Petr Mrazek so terrible but Erik Johnson made total sense?

 

[BiggE]

Well it’s a done deal. Sometime around 2040, Scott Laughton will be named the President & GM of the Flyers. He’ll declare yet another new era of orange and tell us all to just forget that the team has only won one playoff series in nearly 30 years. He’ll be surrounded at the dais by a gently dozing 86 year old Paul Holmgren, team mascot Keith Jones and the holy urn that holds the blessed ashes of St Robert Clarke.