Blue Jays Discussion: 2024-25 Off-season: The free agent watch begins (and sometimes old baseball radio broadcasts)

[Discoverer]

Yep A LOT .... Hopes and dreams and potential does not win World Series. The SP staff is aging quickly. Our RF is old, we have no production at RF, CF, LF, 3B, DH, SS, 2B, C outside of 1B we literally dont have a single player in our line up that we can say confidently that player X is good for this many Runs, this many HR, this many RBI's. We can project numbers that look good based on historicals but there are so many unknows, with far too many players that we either have to rely on a bounce back season or a career year to just compete. That is on both side of the ball SP, RP and position players we need bounce back and or career years out of almost every player. So many unknowns, that is not a recipe for a playoff team.

I think they can reasonably expect good production from C, 1B, 2B, 3B, SS, and CF. Unfortunately, outside of 1B and SS, most of that value is on the defensive side. That's fine if you're getting good offense from RF, LF, and DH, but those positions don't look good right now.

If they had good hitters in two of those spots, I could even see letting some of the unproven young guys battle for playing time in the last spot (I'm particularly high on Roden, and I could see him taking the leadoff spot before too long) but they already have a replacement level guy in RF, so there's no leeway to try something like that.

Sign one of the good OF bats, trade some of the near-MLB depth for another, and let the rest of the young guys battle Springer for playing time. I would be comfortable with that.

I wouldn't be against trading Bo and going Gimenez at SS and Wagner at 2B either assuming a team is willing to pay up for Bo.

 

[Roo]

Atkins and Shapiro have been nothing short of an unmitigated disaster. This team is cooked until those two are gone.

 

[Greek_physique]

Atkins and Shapiro have been nothing short of an unmitigated disaster. This team is cooked until those two are gone.

At least the Roger's Center looks nice

 

[Puckstuff]

Atkins and Shapiro have been nothing short of an unmitigated disaster. This team is cooked until those two are gone.

Pick up a good DH bat and a front line starter and we can pick up 6-7 WAR. Anything short of that and I’d prefer going the rebuild direction.

 

[Roo]

Pick up a good DH bat and a front line starter and we can pick up 6-7 WAR. Anything short of that and I’d prefer going the rebuild direction.

And we become, what, a .500 team? I hear you, but these guys are absolutely terrible. We will never have a contender with them at the helm.

 

[Greek_physique]

And we become, what, a .500 team? I hear you, but these guys are absolutely terrible. We will never have a contender with them at the helm.

Wild Card with 2 additions and a healthy BO can get us to playoffs...if they do F all...then blow it up. It's pointless

 

[rojac]

Personally if the Jays do well I pay more attention to the Jays and less attention to other interests. If the Jays do poorly I pay less attention to the Jays and more attention to other interests. It's the same thing with the Leafs. While I certainly pay attention to trades and signings and have an opinion on them and I care whether my teams win or lose but honestly I find it a lot like the weather. Like the weather, I have no control over what happens, so there is no need to get overly emotional about this stuff ancestry it has to no impact on my life.

So, I find it hard to identify with those of you who get so emotional about this stuff. To me, most lows with sports teams feel like a stubbed toe or bruised shin, when many online are reacting like it's a broken leg.

 

[Hellcat]

I think they can reasonably expect good production from C, 1B, 2B, 3B, SS, and CF. Unfortunately, outside of 1B and SS, most of that value is on the defensive side. That's fine if you're getting good offense from RF, LF, and DH, but those positions don't look good right now.

If they had good hitters in two of those spots, I could even see letting some of the unproven young guys battle for playing time in the last spot (I'm particularly high on Roden, and I could see him taking the leadoff spot before too long) but they already have a replacement level guy in RF, so there's no leeway to try something like that.

Sign one of the good OF bats, trade some of the near-MLB depth for another, and let the rest of the young guys battle Springer for playing time. I would be comfortable with that.

I wouldn't be against trading Bo and going Gimenez at SS and Wagner at 2B either assuming a team is willing to pay up for Bo.

Right and that was one of our many issues was scoring.

There is potential in our lineup, like Varsho, I think his approach at the plate is completely wrong, hoping our new hitting coach reinvents Varsho's swing/approach and he becomes a high OBP guy and he contributes through scoring a shit tonne. Varsho's approach should be a walk is as good as a HR. With the better approach he could/should be a #2/#3 in the line up.

The Jays killed his batting production, take his launch angle -> 2020 (ARZ) - 18.4, 2021 (ARZ) - 18.0, 2022 (ARZ) - 14.9, 2023 (TOR) - 20.5, 2024 (TOR) - 24.4. what changed? Daulton's first season with the Jays was 2023, his best two seasons, OBP, OBP+, BA, virtually every batting stastic was better with ARZ. His xwOBA in 2024 was terrible, ranked 248 out of 252 (.261) for a guy with his speed it is a bloody waste of talent, IMO not being on base, with that kind of speed is waste. Varsho does not need to be a production guy with high HR/RBI to be effective, IMO his value is in the field and on the basepaths. That would be a massive win for the Jays.

I think there is potential in our utility guys like Clement to be more productive at the plate.

 

[Hellcat]

Personally if the Jays do well I pay more attention to the Jays and less attention to other interests. If the Jays do poorly I pay less attention to the Jays and more attention to other interests. It's the same thing with the Leafs. While I certainly pay attention to trades and signings and have an opinion on them and I care whether my teams win or lose but honestly I find it a lot like the weather. Like the weather, I have no control over what happens, so there is no need to get overly emotional about this stuff ancestry it has to no impact on my life.

So, I find it hard to identify with those of you who get so emotional about this stuff. To me, most lows with sports teams feel like a stubbed toe or bruised shin, when many online are reacting like it's a broken leg.

I think that is a function of getting older and realizing rooting for a team that plays shitty, is a waste of time and not disloyal at all to turn them off. I'm in the same boat, I'll watch random YouTube videos over a shitty Leaf/Jays game. In my 30's/40's you couldn't tear me away from a Leafs/Jays game, no matter how poorly they were playing. The bolded part is just a different level of maturity and priorities, it is cult, pack, crowd mentality. Most of us grow out of it.

 

[Hellcat]

Ohh…it’s 1st through 3rd grade

I didn't make it that far, I had to quit skewl to join the spring Seal hunt on the ice flows...

 

[habamillions]

Tampa trading springs to the a's for 3 prospects and a comp pick

 

[Dr.Funk]

Tampa trading springs to the a's for 3 prospects and a comp pick

 

[habamillions]

Im sure these prospects will turn out better the. Springs pretty soon

 

[Dr.Funk]

Is Paredes available?

 

[Ale Brew]

Is Paredes available?

I’d hope the Jays would be interested if so.

Astros have Altuve on 2nd, so not like moving Paredes there, and you’re not acquiring Arenado or Paredes to DH. So yeah, if they land Arenado it seems likely they are moving Paredes.

 

[mikeyz]

I think that is a function of getting older and realizing rooting for a team that plays shitty, is a waste of time and not disloyal at all to turn them off. I'm in the same boat, I'll watch random YouTube videos over a shitty Leaf/Jays game. In my 30's/40's you couldn't tear me away from a Leafs/Jays game, no matter how poorly they were playing. The bolded part is just a different level of maturity and priorities, it is cult, pack, crowd mentality. Most of us grow out of it.

I couldn't agree more with this. Very well said.

 

[Zero1]

I’ll probably get killed for this but Vlad isn’t worth $500+ mill. If the Jays had the Dodgers, Yankees, Mets payroll then I wouldn’t care what they paid him but they don’t.

 

[Woodman19]

I’ll probably get killed for this but Vlad isn’t worth $500+ mill. If the Jays had the Dodgers, Yankees, Mets payroll then I wouldn’t care what they paid him but they don’t.

I agree with you, giving $500 mil to someone with a fluctuating weight problem year to year is certainly a big gamble to make when you got to have take care of himself for the longevity of the contract.

 

[habamillions]

I agree.

I agree with you, giving $500 mil to someone with a fluctuating weight problem year to year is certainly a big gamble to make when you got to have take care of himself for the longevity of the contract.

 

[Puckstuff]

And we become, what, a .500 team? I hear you, but these guys are absolutely terrible. We will never have a contender with them at the helm.

I think there's a path to being better then .500 if they add a couple of impact players, i.e a front line starter and a bat.

Bichette returning to form: 3-4 WAR?
Giménez: 3-4 WAR?
SP1: 3-4 WAR?
Bat: 2-3 WAR?
Bullpen can't be any worse.

I think they can get back to that 87-90 win range. But as I said before, I'm willing to go full rebuild if they can't bring in these pieces.

Basically, we're at a crossroads. The depth is starting to thin out a bit, and they either need to spend money to get themselves out of this problem or rebuild. There's no in-between.