Blue Jays Discussion: 2024-25 Off-season: The free agent watch begins (and sometimes old baseball radio broadcasts)

[Suntouchable13]

Where is this notion that management doesn't trust Vladdy coming from.

Not pinpointing you, as I've seen it suggested a few times now in the last few pages. Is this speculation, or something that was said?

I cannot fathom management running the risk of playing such a high stakes game now with their franchise player. Losing Vladdy will result in a lot of lost trust amongst fans (rightfully so).

No worries. I was listening to Jeff Blair on the JD Bunkis podcast this morning. Blair mentioned that it’s possible the front office simply doesn’t trust Vladdy enough. Yes, it’s just speculation.

 

[The Iceman]

Got one for you guys.

IF Giménez is a better SS than BO, do you play him at SS?

Part 2, do you think management would? I say no to this.
They would make the team defensively weaker to keep BO happy.

In fact I felt Ernie Clement was a better defensive SS to BO last year yet day after day with the 2 of them in the lineup you had BO always at SS.

 

[LaP]

I think even if Giménez works out, we still overpaid for him. This should have been a buy-low type of trade, imo.

This probably should have been a Laine type of deal. Paid nothing and even received a small favor (Jordan Harris was not worth a 2nd round pick in the trade). If Gimenez can't revert back to 2022 Gimenez the only thing this trade will accomplish offensively is replace Springer by another Springer at the end of Springer's contract.

 

[shortfuze]

How could anyone defend them after the off season they had last year....

How about the off seasons before that?

 

[LaP]

Where is this notion that management doesn't trust Vladdy coming from.

Not pinpointing you, as I've seen it suggested a few times now in the last few pages. Is this speculation, or something that was said?

I cannot fathom management running the risk of playing such a high stakes game now with their franchise player. Losing Vladdy will result in a lot of lost trust amongst fans (rightfully so).

It's speculation based on the fact he has not been signed long term.

 

[Discoverer]

I don't disagree with you. But, Atkins' arrogance really pisses me off. "Oh, we're gonna fix him" There is no one shred of evidence they can do anything to unlock a hitter's hidden potential. Look at Varsho.

I doubt there's anything to it other than a fluke to some extent, but they've had this weird habit of unlocking unexpected power in light-hitting infielders the last little while:

IKF and Clement last year, Sogard is an obvious example, Semien had good power but blew his career numbers out of the water in Toronto, Galvis had his best power season here...

There are plenty of others who it didn't work out for (Drury, Valera, Espinal, Urshela didn't put it together until the year he left) but you can kind of see where they're coming from in thinking Gimenez may have more to offer offensively.

 

[CabanaBoy5]

Burnes, Gimenez, hitting power (eg Teo), and a half-decent bullpen would put us in a pretty decent spot I think.

Though ultimately, we cant let Vlad or Bo wall for nothing. So Rogers either needs to pony up big time, pay Vlad/Bo and then also pay big $$ to surround them with a good supporting cast, or you may as well sell Vlad, Bo, Gauzman, Bassit, etc and go through a multi-year rebuild.

Clinging to being a semi-competitive team until guys age out and/or walk in free agency is a good way to end up in a decade long rebuild. So pony up, or rebuild. Don't just kinda tinker and hope for the best.

But this is Atkins' modus operandi. He thinks he's the smartest guy in the room and is arrogant af. He thinks he can fix Gimenez's offence, just like he fixed Turner's, Varsho's, Kiermaier's and Vogelbach's. His use of analytics will lead this team to playoff success in his mind. He's thankful for just being in the mix for Ohtani and Soto, players he had no chance of acquiring. Hubris at it's disgusting worst. Rogers deserves this clown for not getting rid of him.

 

[Ale Brew]

Got one for you guys.

IF Giménez is a better SS than BO, do you play him at SS?

Part 2, do you think management would? I say no to this.
They would make the team defensively weaker to keep BO happy.

In fact I felt Ernie Clement was a better defensive SS to BO last year yet day after day with the 2 of them in the lineup you had BO always at SS.

Giminez is almost certainly the better glove at SS.

But no, I don’t think there is any chance they ask Bo to move off SS in his walk year. It could potentially lower his value going into FA so if he did it he likely wouldn’t be pleased about it. And if they look to deal him in season it could also affect his trade value.

IMO if Giminez is playing SS this year, it’s because Bo has been dealt or is injured.

 

[TheTotalPackage]

No worries. I was listening to Jeff Blair on the JD Bunkis podcast this morning. Blair mentioned that it’s possible the front office simply doesn’t trust Vladdy enough. Yes, it’s just speculation.

It's speculation based on the fact he has not been signed long term.

Thanks to you both.

I seriously hope this speculation is untrue. It'd be ridiculous at this point to not sign him long term. I don't know if they are trying to save face with this notion they don't trust him, but this falls squarely on their shoulders. They have botched this up completely.

Don't trust him enough to sign him to a big money, long term deal? Fine. But then they should have traded him well before allowing him to walk into his final year of his contract.

 

[trellaine201]

All but sure Vlad test free agent market after Soto and Ohtani contracts. He'd be crazy if he didn't. Unless Blue Jays way overpay

In all honesty that was probably him and agents thought all along. Wait until they see what Soto gets. I doubt they had any intention either in signing.

 

[smitty10]

I don't disagree with you. But, Atkins' arrogance really pisses me off. "Oh, we're gonna fix him" There is no one shred of evidence they can do anything to unlock a hitter's hidden potential. Look at Varsho.

I'm not a fan of him either. However, I do think they're trying to do well and plan on revamping this lineup after last year.

They gave me some hope at the TDL with the trades they made. I'm riding that wave into this off season.

 

[Puckstuff]

This probably should have been a Laine type of deal. Paid nothing and even received a small favor (Jordan Harris was not worth a 2nd round pick in the trade). If Gimenez can't revert back to 2022 Gimenez the only thing this trade will accomplish offensively is replace Springer by another Springer at the end of Springer's contract.

Nailed it.

Perhaps if we're getting Cade Smith, Hunter Gaddis or Tim Herrin instead of Sandlin then the trade is more fair. Atkins was fleeced.

 

[hockeywiz542]

 

[leafsfan2point0]

Sorry to be negative. But I feel sorry for the fans that actually believe these two clowns can get Vladdy signed.

Imo they’re the most incompetent Toronto management group since Harrold Ballard. Worse than JFJ/Burke etc.

 

[Forgotusername]

Just saw this posted on the Jays subreddit. Says that if they don't reach an agreement by August 1st they will trade him.

 

[tmlfan98]

Fangraphs loves this trade from a Jays perspective.

 

[Eyedea]

But this is Atkins' modus operandi. He thinks he's the smartest guy in the room and is arrogant af. He thinks he can fix Gimenez's offence, just like he fixed Turner's, Varsho's, Kiermaier's and Vogelbach's. His use of analytics will lead this team to playoff success in his mind. He's thankful for just being in the mix for Ohtani and Soto, players he had no chance of acquiring. Hubris at it's disgusting worst. Rogers deserves this clown for not getting rid of him.

From what I gather he seems more receptive to the other people in the room? He wouldn’t be buying low on someone unless his staff feel confident that they can help improve the player. I get people find him boring, safe, and conservative with his language, but I never hear him throw guys under the bus and he is always quick to compliment the players and staff that are contributive to success. Like even with more combative personalities (Manoah) he’s still going to find the positives of a poor situation or circumstance.

And of course the elephant in the room, the overuse of analytical tools. Let’s act like the most successful orgs over the last quarter century haven’t been reliant on them. Considering how stats based the game itself is, and how much is freely available, we still don’t know half of what they know due to their in-house developed systems.

For instance, you can’t just ignore the thing that helped them extract this much value out of 27 year old 1B who was drafted in the 24th round 5 years ago and never once made a top 100 prospect list, let alone a Jays top 10 list.

 

[Dr.Funk]

 

[tmlfan98]

 

[tmlfan98]

 

[shaner8989]

Jays have no chance to compete.

Trade VLAD and Bo. Start over

 

[habamillions]

Damn. Good trade for the sox

 

[Amadeus]

Damn. Good trade for the sox

which Sox?

 

[Seath The Scaleless]

Nice return for CWS. Boston's farm is so deep that they could afford to make this deal.

 

[Canada4Gold]

Jays take Bastardo from Boston in the rule 5 draft