2024-25 James Norris Memorial Trophy finalists: Quinn Hughes, Cale Makar, Zach Werenski

[Phrasing]

I think Hughes did more with less than Makar did this year. Same for Werenski. But I expect Makar to win.

I think Hughes would have won if he played more games.

 

[avsfan9]

Cale wins cause his competition was injured. Congrats!

Hey same thing happened to Makar when fox won!

 

[Grifter3511]

Bolded the most important part. Doesnt explain Karlsson then and obviously you need to explain to everyone else here with the nonstop crying about who has the better teammates to work with.

You left out the other important part: chances of 'winning'. San Jose was losing no matter who was on defense. Columbus and Vancouver were missing the playoffs no matter who was on defense. So you could argue that Karlsson, Hughes and Werenski gave their teams the best chances of winning with how they produced. Alas, hockey is a team game.

 

[landy]

You left out the other important part: chances of 'winning'. San Jose was losing no matter who was on defense. Columbus and Vancouver were missing the playoffs no matter who was on defense. So you could argue that Karlsson, Hughes and Werenski gave their teams the best chances of winning with how they produced. Alas, hockey is a team game.

At least you admit no actual defense is needed. I feel like that is a first around here. Most try to justify via teammates or zone starts or quality of competition. Call a spade a spade.

 

[Rabid Ranger]

I think it will be hard for voters to ignore Makar's 30 goals. That said, you can't ignore that both Hughes and Werenski went toe to toe with him points wise, while each having much more challenging team situations. I would say Hughes' was even worse than Werenski with the injuries and team drama.

 

[Grifter3511]

At least you admit no actual defense is needed. I feel like that is a first around here. Most try to justify via teammates or zone starts or quality of competition. Call a spade a spade.

Correct. Offense can outweigh defense and vice versa. Now, keep in mind that I'm talking generalities here and not any specific player. I've never watched any Karlsson Sharks games or looked at his numbers to determine whether there was passable defense happening there or not. Just debating the argument' player X doesn't play defense and player Y does, so player Y is a better defenseman,' when actually player X's on ice contributions have a significantly more positive affect on the outcome than Player Y's does.

 

[landy]

Correct. Offense can outweigh defense and vice versa. Now, keep in mind that I'm talking generalities here and not any specific player. I've never watched any Karlsson Sharks games or looked at his numbers to determine whether there was passable defense happening there or not. Just debating the argument' player X doesn't play defense and player Y does, so player Y is a better defenseman,' when actually player X's on ice contributions have a significantly more positive affect on the outcome than Player Y's does.

Karlsson is the extreme example. Put up goals, let in more goals, win Norris. Idiot math.

Insert Slavin on that team and do they make the playoffs? No. Do they win more games? Maybe. Do they sell less tickets? Probably.

 

[jackjohnson]

Makar wins it.

Makar wins it because of Hughes injury

 

[PatriceBergeronFan]

Makar naturally but Werenski had a heck of a season to be 2nd.

 

[jackjohnson]

Kindof shocking Quinn still got 3rd here.

Kind of shocking Avs fans still hate Hughes here

 

[kcunac]

As those charts show Quinn is easily the best defensively of the three candidates. I’d argue he’s been the best offensively as well, as he lead his team by 26 points and drives the bus for the offence in Vancouver. He’d have more points if he played on a better offensive team, like the Avs. Given his importance to our offence, it would be foolish to play Q on the PK. Keep his minutes, which are some of the highest in the league, to EV and PP where he can help the team the most.

 

[jackjohnson]

Shocking to an uneducated fan

I Agree, Hughes playing half season injured with 15 games missed due to injury and still end up 2nd playing with likes of Suter and Blueger. Hughes carried the whole Canucks team. If anything, Hughes deserves to win again.

 

[jackjohnson]

Not like it would've made a difference.

Would have made a difference, 15 to 20 more points. Plus he had no elite forward helping him unlike Makar. Put Hughes in the Avs and he would have 120 points easily. Hughes made Sherwood, Suter, DeBrusk hit career highes while Petersson was still playing like an AHL player.

 

[jackjohnson]

Dahlin, Hedman, Morrisey, and even Hutson or Fox all deserve more votes than Quinn. Norris is still the no defense award.

You are talking about the defending Norris winner here my guy

 

[Sky04]

Would have made a difference, 15 to 20 more points. Plus he had no elite forward helping him unlike Makar. Put Hughes in the Avs and he would have 120 points easily. Hughes made Sherwood, Suter, DeBrusk hit career highes while Petersson was still playing like an AHL player.

Nah I'm told Pettersson is elite.

 

[jackjohnson]

So you say the award is the no defense award
Yet none of them outscored Hughes?

Brilliant logic

By his logic, Makar would be disqualified

 

[jackjohnson]

Nah I'm told Pettersson is elite.

If petersson is elite then how come all the HFboard posters say he isnt even worth a 7th round pick??

 

[jackjohnson]

There's no way you can watch any of those defensemen and think their close to Quinn Hughes.

Insecurity does strange things to a hockey fan...

That poster is known to troll Canucks fans, especially when it comes to Hughes. Would just ignore whatever he says

 

[jackjohnson]

Im saying based on the combination of overall defense and offensive contributions, others are more worthy. Hutson, Hughes, and Bouchard are specifically O only. Hybrid "defensemen". They may be elite defenders, but their deployment makes it so we never see it.

Am sorry but Hughes won the Norris so your point is moot. If you say Norris award is meaningless or offense only award then you automatically discredit Makar. So pick your poison.

 

[landy]

Am sorry but Hughes won the Norris so your point is moot. If you say Norris award is meaningless or offense only award then you automatically discredit Makar. So pick your poison.

I dont even know what youre babblnig about in multiple quotes. Do them all in one.

"f you say Norris award is meaningless or offense only award then you automatically discredit Makar."

So im saying Makar is not offense only and elite at both ends of the ice? Yes that is correct. The award isnt meaningless, but too often voted on point totals only.

 

[Sasha Orlov]

Lane Hutson in 5th btw

 

[jackjohnson]

As those charts show Quinn is easily the best defensively of the three candidates. I’d argue he’s been the best offensively as well, as he lead his team by 26 points and drives the bus for the offence in Vancouver. He’d have more points if he played on a better offensive team, like the Avs. Given his importance to our offence, it would be foolish to play Q on the PK. Keep his minutes, which are some of the highest in the league, to EV and PP where he can help the team the most.

I watched both Makar and Hughes and to me Hughes drives the play a lot more, has the highest possession time out of any players including McDavid and plays 30 minutes a night. He is probably the defacto number 1 dman in this league. Unfortuantely he missed 15 games and played half the season injured which was very obvious. A fully healthy Hughes playing all the games would have made this years Canucks team that had half its roster injured make the playoffs. The fact Canucks came so close to making the playoffs is actually a miracle, only half dozen points less than a completely healthy Avs team.

 

[jackjohnson]

I dont even know what youre babblnig about in multiple quotes. Do them all in one.

"f you say Norris award is meaningless or offense only award then you automatically discredit Makar."

So im saying Makar is not offense only and elite at both ends of the ice? Yes that is correct. The award isnt meaningless, but too often voted on point totals only.

You say Makar was elite defensively when lots of people here were talki g how Makar was mediocre defensively even this year and how Hughes was elite defenisvely. Your biased analysis doesnt make him the best.

 

[Skinnyjimmy08]

People can try to twist it how they want with coulda, woulda, shoulda… but this award will be Makars this year. A lot of good young dmen nowadays but Makar is tops

 

[jackjohnson]

People can try to twist it how they want with coulda, woulda, shoulda… but this award will be Makars this year. A lot of good young dmen nowadays but Makar is tops

We all know Hughes is the top dman